Ep 352 Why Depletion Impacts Fertility After Baby with Brooke Harmer
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Brooke Harmer (@thewellnourishedmama_), the founder of The Well Nourished Mama, a nutritionist and postpartum health expert who supports women through pregnancy, postpartum, and beyond. Brooke’s journey began as a food blogger helping college students eat well on a budget, but after becoming a mother herself, she shifted her focus to helping women heal nutritionally after birth and prepare their bodies for future pregnancies.
In this conversation, we explore how pregnancy, birth, and postpartum dramatically shift a woman’s biochemistry, gut microbiome, and hormonal balance, and why many women facing secondary infertility are actually experiencing a deep nutritional depletion. Brooke shares the foundational habits and healing foods that help rebuild nutrient stores and support fertility, whether it’s your first or third time trying to conceive.
From bone broth and Brazil nuts to the power of minerals and full-fat dairy, this episode is packed with essential advice for replenishing the body and preparing for a thriving pregnancy.
🎧 Tune in if you’re navigating secondary infertility, prepping for conception after baby, or simply want to learn how to nourish your body through all seasons of motherhood.
Key Takeaways:
Postpartum depletion can significantly impact future fertility.
The body undergoes major gut, immune, and hormonal shifts during pregnancy and childbirth.
Healing takes time, more than the traditional 6 weeks postpartum.
Eating 3 well-balanced meals a day is foundational for hormone and fertility health.
Minerals and full-fat foods are essential for restoring the body’s cellular function and hormonal balance.
If you’re curious about how to quiet your mind and gently support your body with mindset tools, my Rooted Membership is designed for you. It’s a space where I share hypnosis audios, meditations, and mindset practices to bring calm to your fertility journey. You can even try it free for 7 days and see how it feels. https://www.michelleoravitz.com/rooted-fertility-mindset-membership
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com
Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility
The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/
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Michelle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast, Brooke.
Brooke: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Michelle: Yes, me too. So I'd love for you, first of all, I always like to ask for the origin story and how you got into the work that you're doing. So I'd love to have you share that
Brooke: Sure. I started out as a food blogger in college. I was just really passionate about helping poor college kids figure out how to eat healthy on a budget. So I started my blog and I got into food photography and did that for a little while.
And then after I had my first baby, I realized that a lot of moms were looking for nutritional support for their milk supply. And so while I was kind of navigating that on my own. I started to dabble into that and eventually it morphed into full-blown mom content. , And really just diving deep into nutrition for moms.
My specialty is postpartum, but I primarily work with pregnancy and postpartum. . [00:01:00] And now my content is centered around empowering moms to take a proactive approach to their health and also learn how to work with their healthcare providers and myself to get the best healthcare possible. A lot of people feel like it's either that they're doctors or the the functional medicine woo woo people over in this corner, or just stepping away from medicine altogether, and I don't believe in that.
I believe that we should have a big team. On our side, and everyone has their own expertise, and so I'm here to add my own expertise when it comes to nutrition and lifestyle, specifically for the motherhood stage of your life. Because what I found is a lot of the things that we typically hear. From the health and wellness space, don't really apply to us moms because our nutritional needs are different.
, We do not have the same 24 hours in the day that other people have. , And just really trying to understand how to take care of ourselves so that we [00:02:00] can show up and be the best moms for our families that we can.
Michelle: Awesome. So the reason why I really thought that you'd bring so much value is because most of the time we're talking just on fertility and as if you've never had babies. But I know because I've had a lot of people reach out that a lot of people listening to this have. Secondary infertility, which is they already have babies and they wanna grow their family, but they're finding that it's not as easy as it was for their first baby, and they're trying again, and things aren't working the way they want it to.
And from a t cm perspective, we look at like the body and pregnancy and childbearing. Really take, take a toll on your qi and your blood and Chinese medicine, which are very important for future fertility. So you can get really, really depleted. So I thought what you are offering is something kind of unique to what we've had before because I was always kind of like [00:03:00] focusing just on fertility as if you've never been pregnant before.
But the reality is, is a lot of people listening to this have had kids before. And sometimes that in itself can be so depleting. So I thought that some of what you're offering and the things that your, your perspective can really help with secondary infertility. So I'm sure that you see this as well. I mean that the whole pregnancy process can be very depleting.
And what are some of the things that you address for that to support people who have already had a baby, but like, are. Planning or trying, , for another one, or at least at the very least, really supporting their nutrients so that they're not as depleted and they can kind of like fill that reserve.
Brooke: Yeah, I love how you're tying it all together because it's not, it's not just the fertility stage and then it's not just the pregnancy [00:04:00] stage. It all ebbs and flows together and it kind of creates a domino effect. So if you have been pregnant before. gut microbiome goes through these transformational changes to make sure that your body keeps your baby safe and hopefully keeps it to term, and then that your body is okay at the end of pregnancy as well.
So there's a lot of immune system changes, a lot of gut microbiome changes that are inherently happening that we don't really see. Except through common pregnancy symptoms and what we've been taught in the past is, well, that's just part of pregnancy. You just have to put up with it. But really it's our body saying we need more support.
So understanding how your body changes through pregnancy and then childbirth is the next event. Childbirth. Dramatically changes your body. Again, your hormones crash. , Your body goes [00:05:00] into fight or flight for an extended period of time. Research tells us that it's at least four weeks after childbirth that you are still in fight or flight because your body was so overwhelmed by everything that happened with childbirth.
And that in and of itself also. Change is the basic functioning of our body. When your body's in fight or flight, all of the blood is diverted to keeping your heart pumping, keeping your eyes dilated, and like kind of keeping you on edge so that you are ready to run metaphorically whenever you need to.
Michelle: Yeah.
Brooke: Because of that, our digestion slows down. We're not absorbing nutrients anymore. , Our liver is releasing glucose to keep up with the elevated cortisol. Like there's all of these changes that happen just from that event. And then on top of that we have the recovery period. Called postpartum, which is not just six weeks.
In case you didn't know that, it's not just six [00:06:00] weeks. Um, your body literally has to rebuild it. Spent 10 months building a baby, and now it has to spend even more time rebuilding yourself. And so all of these phases put together if we're not supported. As best as possible, we can sometimes see secondary infertility because our body essentially went through the ringer and then really get to go back to where it needs to be to feel good.
And so it's like, you know what? I'm kind of tapped out right now. I don't really have the capacity to try and do that whole baby thing again. 'cause that was a lot and I didn't really get the help that I needed. So we're gonna put a pause on that and I wanna really emphasize the pause part because. I know a lot of moms really get in their head of, oh my gosh, well now it's never gonna happen again.
And I haven't personally been through that, but I can only imagine what it feels like to be there. And I can imagine that sometimes it really is easy to think that [00:07:00] you're just done. But I wanna emphasize that your body is saying, I need to put a pause. And if we can sit with that and say, okay, my body's on pause right now.
How can I help my body? Get ready to go again. What does my body need from me to unpause and to be ready to get pregnant again? That feels empowering because that means that there are things that we can do and there are things that we can explore and we can be curious and say, okay, what, what, what does my body need right now?
And really trying to understand biologically where we're coming from that's gonna make a huge difference in your approach.
Michelle: A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean it, it's very similar to how we look at it and Chinese medicine is really understanding that the body is asking for something. Typically symptoms are that, and symptoms are an amazing, amazing thing that we have. We sometimes look at it as like a really, , difficult thing or a nuisance, [00:08:00] but symptoms are actually, you're one of the most amazing aspects of your body where they're just asking you or telling you, Hey, this is a message.
, I need something that I'm not getting. So I, I find that really, you know, empowering because you know that. Once you do find it, your body's going to respond in a positive way. So what are some of the things that you find are absolutely vital? , After, postpartum,
Brooke: Well, the first thing is making sure that you are actually helping your body heal. A lot of us have been led to believe that healing just takes. Place within those first six weeks, and then we're in the all clear, we're good to go, and we just kind of hope for the best after that. And if you're finding that you still don't feel good at 6, 9, 12, maybe even 18 months postpartum, whatever that timeframe is, it's never too late to heal.
[00:09:00] So if you don't feel like you got the care and. The nutrients and the attention that you needed in that initial healing phase, it's never too late to heal. You can start that process again and help nourish your body back to health. So the first thing I would say is making sure that we are really being consistent with the foundational needs of our nutrition.
So are you eating three meals a day? You'd be shocked at how many moms are not doing that because so easy to just be like, oh, well I'll just grab my coffee and I'll hurry quick, make my kids breakfast, and then we have to run out the door, or we have to go play with toys or whatever. And then all you've had is coffee and then lunchtime comes around and you're like, man, I'm so tired.
And it's almost my kid's nap time, and I'm just gonna quick. You know, grab the pickings off of their plate that they didn't finish, [00:10:00] and then I'll just kind of grab something later, and then you're like, oh my gosh, now I have to clean the house. So now it's two o'clock in the afternoon, you haven't had a real meal yet, and it kind of perpetuates.
And then you're like, why am I so tired? Why am I so hungry? So to bring it all back, make sure you're eating at least three meals a day, that's the bare minimum. And then when you do sit down for a meal. Are you calm? Are you rested? Are you helping your body get to that regulated state where it's prepared to do something with the food that you're about to give it?
That makes a huge difference in your digestion. Next thing I would say is bal, yes, balancing your plate. , It's really easy to fill up on the fun foods. Those are usually carb heavy, and I'm not saying you can't have those, but making sure that you are also prioritizing your protein and your healthy fats.
Our eggs need a lot of micronutrients to. [00:11:00] Have a better quality and also better motility, and all of those things and micronutrients come from. Animal meats and animal products, and a lot of the fruits and vegetables that we have, as well as the dietary fat. So making sure that there's a big variety of nutrients on your plate to tell your body, Hey, we've got everything that we need to take care of ourselves and prepare for when we're ready to conceive again.
So I would say those are like the biggest foundational things. Um, and we can kind of build on that from there, once you've got those things consistent.
Michelle: And what are typically like foods that people should be focused on that can help them, you know, rebuild that nutrient density.
Brooke: , Definitely animal products. I know not every mama feels comfortable, with like red meat or fish or things like that for whatever reasons. But if, if you can,, let's say, you know, [00:12:00] you are vegetarian or vegan, . By choice rather than like, for religious reasons. , I would say maybe start experimenting with some animal products, , because those are so, so, so rich in all of our B vitamins, zinc, iron, .
Vitamin A. Just really everything our body needs, making sure we're getting those animal products in. , And if it's like a texture thing for you, then let's find some creative ways to get those in. So maybe you don't like ground meat, like ground beef or tacos, but maybe you like little steak strips. Or maybe you can do like breaded fish instead of just.
You know, like a regular fish filet or something like that. So finding a way to enjoy that food in a way that you can eat it consistently. , I would also say if you're not doing full fat dairy switch to full fat dairy, a lot of us grew up.
Michelle: Yes.
Brooke: In [00:13:00] the nutritional era where everyone's like, we need to eat low fat so that we can be skinny and you know, we have to have the low fat dressings and the low fat milk and all of this stuff.
Our hormones are built on dietary fat. Our brain is built on dietary fat, and our brain controls our menstrual cycle, and if we do not have those essential nutrients from those dietary fats, then the whole thing is just not working. So reminding yourself that you're not gonna get fat from eating whole milk Greek yogurt. Right. , And kind of making that mental shift of I need dietary fats. This is what is gonna support my body right now. , And then really eating just a really colorful plate. So shoot for 10 plant points a day. When I say plant points, that's like fruits or veggies. So think berries, avocados.
Your root vegetables, your [00:14:00] legumes, like beans, lentils, chickpeas. Just really trying to get a variety of plants every single day is really gonna build your diversity or your nutrient portfolio so that your body has lots of stuff to choose from when it's trying to support your cycle and your ability to conceive.
Michelle: Also great for your microbiome, so increasing that diversity. And it's interesting that you were talking about full fats 'cause there's a lot of things that you were saying is, is all just also for fertility. Even if you haven't conceived, it's beneficial. So, , full fat milk, whole milk has been shown in studies to support fertility, whereas skim milk or percentage milk has been shown to have adverse effects on hormones and, , so many things, some reproductive health.
So you really need to have Whole Foods. When they say Whole Foods like food that is how it [00:15:00] was in the, in the first place, like it's natural nature.
Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. And. Going along with that, just reminding yourself that you don't necessarily need to say, okay, well, if I'm in the trying to conceive phase, then I need to eat these foods, and then once I'm pregnant, I need to be eating these foods. And then once I'm postpartum, really it's sticking with these habits consistently the whole time.
Like your body needs full fat dairy in every stage. It might be for different reasons for trying to conceive pregnancy postpartum. Your body still needs full fat dairy all the time. So sometimes it's really helpful to be like, oh, like eggs are great for pregnancy because of their choline and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And we kind of fall into that trap of, okay, what foods are really important right now, while I'm trying to conceive, the answer's gonna be the same then what it was yesterday if you weren't trying to conceive, we need our [00:16:00] protein, our dietary fats. Our minerals, our complex carbs, to give us fiber. Like let's try not to overcomplicate it, right?
Let's try and to say, I'm gonna focus on a well-rounded diet that's whole foods based, that has a variety of plants and a variety of animal proteins, and I'm just gonna be consistent with that so that my body says, wow, I'm consistently getting what I need. I'm good to go. Let's unpause and let's try again for another baby.
Michelle: And one of the questions that I often get, so the majority of my patients and my online clients are fertility related. However, they. Many times eventually get pregnant. And one of the first things that people come to me about is, what do I eat now that I'm pregnant? Like how do I shift things? And so I wanted to actually talk about that as well because I know a lot of people listening to this either are almost there or about to even prepare for a transfer, and they wanna know [00:17:00] like, what's the next step should that happen?
So what are your thoughts on that and what are your recommendations?
Brooke: I would say if you're going to change anything, I would just increase your mineral intake. So minerals are the spark plugs of our body, especially the electrolytes. , And they're responsible for our cellular function. So. If we're talking like vitamins versus minerals, vitamins, how I describe it in very, very layman's terms is that vitamins, , support our organs and like the bigger part of our body, well, you know, they can still help everywhere, but if we're trying to break it down, vitamins are more for the major parts for our body, like our organs and like our body as a whole.
And the minerals are where we really see. The benefits on a cellular level that can then support the rest of our body. , We know that our eggs have more. [00:18:00] Mitochondria and more energy needs than other cells in our body. And so if we can support our health at a cellular level, it's really going to help us as we're going through these transfers or as we're trying to, , you know, support our menstrual cycle and ovulation and, , all of the other hormones that play into that symphony.
So if you're not already eating mineral rich foods. Start doing that. Think avocados, bananas, dairy, , organ meats, nuts are really, really rich in minerals like, , copper and. Things that support our, our hormones. , And then start adding in maybe some high quality electrolyte supplements to really make sure that you have enough of those electrolytes.
, My two brands that I have on rotation all the time are Redmond, relight, and just ingredients. I love the relight because it's higher in sodium and I love just ingredients [00:19:00] because of the potassium to sodium ratio. .
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Brooke: They both have great flavors. So I would say the only thing to really, I guess, change would be to just increase your mineral intake, because the more minerals you have, the more supported your mitochondria are, and then if your mitochondria are supported, then every cell in your body is gonna have energy to do what it needs to do.
Michelle: Yeah, for sure. Definitely. , Minerals, I, I've seen so many people with, like, symptoms of magnesium deficiency and magnesium. I, I'm like, so like you really need to be on top of that. It's, , so important. Nuts too. Nuts are incredibly important because Chinese medicine sees them as rich and jing, you know, they're basically the plant, , version of our eggs and sperm.
'cause they have everything that they need in order to reproduce and to kind of flourish into a sprout, which is really what pregnancy is. It's like a sprouting of the [00:20:00] body. So as far as nuts go, , do you have any suggestions? I know some people say to have them soaked and to have them raw. , When you do soak them, they do kind of like, it starts this sprouting process.
So I wanted to get your take on that.
Brooke: You know, I love the the sprouting idea. I think that's awesome. And there has been some research that shows that that's probably the preferred way to eat some of your nuts and seeds for me. I already feel stretched for time as is, and so I would say if you're trying to choose between doing it the right way and doing it at all, I would just focus on doing it.
And then you can get consistent and find time. To try the sprouting or the organic or whatever, then that's awesome, but let's make sure we're doing it first. , As for the type of nuts, Brazil nuts are super great for our thyroid. , They're really high in selenium. You only need two maximum a day get your, your [00:21:00] daily needs for selenium.
, And then
Michelle: and no more that actually. 'cause you can go overboard.
Brooke: Yeah, so like one or two max. , And then I also love pumpkin seeds and pistachios, pumpkin seeds, especially because, , they're rich in tryptophan, which is the building block for melatonin. And you're sleeping better, you are detoxing and restoring better, which means your body is more capable of.
Being able to support, , fertility and pregnancy. So I love pumpkin seeds. And then I also love pistachios because they're really rich in copper. And copper supports our digestion of protein. So you could be eating a lot of protein and then not actually getting all the benefits of it because you don't have enough copper in your system.
So copper is another great one. And we get those from pistachios.
Michelle: Yeah, it's interesting. It's, , kind of similar to vitamin [00:22:00] D with magnesium is that, , we can have lots of vitamin D but we don't process it. We need magnesium. So it just kind of shows how everything's such a symphony and that's why it's so important to eat diverse foods and really look at everything.
. So it, it's important that diversity of food in eating the rainbow, really looking at everything. , And I know that you like, , bone broth as well. We talked about that on your podcast.
Brooke: Yes, I do love bone broth. It's, it's really a triple win. You get the protein and you get the electrolytes, and you get the amino acids, , and it's just incredible. So instead of cooking your rice. Or your noodles in water, cook them in bone broth, and that's a super easy way get it in. If you don't like drinking it, that's fine.
Let's find other ways to sneak it in and just make that a part of your daily routine.
Michelle: Yeah, no, that's actually really a, a good thing that I've, it was kind of a hack that I started doing and to be honest, it gives your rice so much more flavor. [00:23:00] And I personally like Baati rice. It's just, uh, it's great and it also is like one of the better rice to have. And do you have any suggestions or like any brands that you like for bone broth?
Brooke: , Kettle and Fire, in my opinion, is the standard. I know that it's pretty pricey though, and I say it's the standard and I don't even have it very often, , because I go through so much bone broth, so I would just focus on finding an organic bone broth. , I get one from Walmart. I think the brand is.
Pacific or Pacifica or something along those lines. It's a green carton, , and it's just organic bone broth on it. So that's a super great option. And then,
Michelle: fed? If it's beef. do you usually do beef and chicken or one or the other
Brooke: , It depends on the recipe. So most of the time it's chicken just because it's a little bit more subtle. , So it doesn't have a [00:24:00] strong of a flavor and you can kind of mix it with whatever, but if I'm doing like a beef stew or something that's like primarily made with beef and I need some sort of broth, then I'll do beef bone broth.
, I also love the powdered bone broth from just ingredients. You can buy the basil one or the lemon herb one, and so you can just do a scoop and add it to water or add it to your soup or. Whatever you're using. , And it actually makes it really palatable to drink as well. So that's one of my favorite things for postpartum is I'll warm up my water in the microwave and then I'll add a scoop of the lemon herb bone broth and it actually like, tastes good.
So now I'm actually drinking the bone broth.
Michelle: Yeah. And also pregnancy or even, , fertility. So it's amazing 'cause a lot of these things are beneficial for everybody.
Brooke: Yeah. Anytime.
Michelle: Awesome. So that sounds great. So if people are interested in [00:25:00] learning more or, , do get to that place where they're conceiving and they wanna learn more about, . You know, pregnancy, nutrition, and information on postpartum possibly.
Or if they have, you know, , gone through pregnancy and are trying again, how can they reach you and find out more about what you offer?
Brooke: You can find me on Instagram at the well nourished mama underscore. , I also have a podcast, the Well Nourished Mama Podcast, and my website is the same. Well nourished mama.com. . And then if you're looking for very specific support to healing your body and really building those foundations, I recommend my.
Cookbook called The New Mama. It's marketed as a postpartum recovery cookbook, but it's primarily a healing protocol. , It's anti-inflammatory in nature, and it's really rich in minerals and amino acids. So if you're still feeling a little bit [00:26:00] off or you just really wanna lay that groundwork to support your body through this next phase of trying to conceive, then you can start at the very beginning of My New Mama cookbook and watch your body flourish as you go throughout the cookbook.
It's kind of an a meal plan format, , and it'll really kind of help reset your body and get you to a place where you're feeling a lot better.
Michelle: And listen, this works. For people who have never conceived. I, I just really wanna stress that. 'cause we have like such, , we kind of like labeled different parts as separate, but it's, it's all the same. Like you're really nourishing your body and that nourishing will help with conception regardless if it, it's the first time or the second time or the third time.
So yeah, I'd like to stress that.
Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, like I said, it's marketed as a postpartum recovery cookbook, but my mother-in-law uses it and she's in her fifties. , My husband loves all the [00:27:00] recipes and I use it all the time to just support my body at a foundational level.
Michelle: Perfect. , So Brooke, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. I'm really happy because I feel like, , it is really, , giving answers to a community that is often, I always say it's kind of like the, the middle child, you know, the secondary and fertility , it's not given as much attention as like.
Primary infertility, and a lot of people actually going through that are going through that after having a kid and realizing maybe their body's more depleted. So I think this is such an important topic and conversation. So thank you so much for coming on today, Brooke. Right.
Brooke: welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm wishing you the best .