Ep 371 From Burnout to Emotional Readiness: Healing the Fertility Journey with Margaret Cali

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Margaret Cali, a Fertility and Mindset Coach and founder of Cali Coaching. Margaret shares her deeply personal fertility journey, which began at age 25 and included miscarriage, PCOS, medication complications, emotional burnout, and years of feeling lost and disconnected from herself.

After stepping away from the relentless cycle of trying to conceive and focusing on healing her nervous system, mindset, and emotional wellbeing, Margaret went on to conceive successfully through IVF at age 40. Her story is a powerful reminder that fertility is not just a medical journey, it is an emotional, mental, and whole-body experience.

In this conversation, we explore what burnout during fertility really looks like, why emotional support is so often missing from fertility care, and how rebuilding your inner world can transform not only your fertility journey, but your life. Margaret also shares the tools that helped her heal and introduces her RISE Method, an emotional readiness approach designed to support women at every stage of trying to conceive.


Key Takeaways: 

• Fertility struggles affect the nervous system, identity, and emotional wellbeing, not just the body

• Burnout can block your ability to receive, restore, and reconnect with yourself

• Emotional healing is not time wasted, it is foundational to fertility and long-term wellbeing

• Small, consistent shifts create powerful transformation over time

• You don’t have to carry the emotional weight of fertility alone

Connect with Margaret Cali:

Website: https://www.margaretcali.com.au
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/margaretcali.au
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MCaliCoaching
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-cali-4bb936188/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@margaretcali
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@margaretcali
Email: mcalicoaching@gmail.com

To apply for Margaret’s program, click here.

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

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For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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• Transcript

  ​[00:00:00]

  Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, Margaret. I am so excited to have you on.

  Margaret: I'm so excited to be here, Michelle. Thank you for inviting me on.

  Michelle: Of course. So Margaret is, um, really somebody who I absolutely love and have the pleasure to work with as one of my certification coaches certified, um, the wholesome fertility coach, and she's just one of the most nurturing sweet. Souls, uh, that I had the pleasure to meet. And I would love for you, Margaret, to share your story and how you got into fertility coaching.

  Margaret: Thank you, Michelle, and thank you for that warm introduction. Well, my fertility journey is quite a long standing one. I started to try and conceive at 25 and like [00:01:00] everyone else thought it's gonna happen straight away. And it actually did. I fell pregnant straight away, but I miscarried. And then people were saying, oh, it's normal, you know, to miscarry.

  Um, but I felt really a lot of pain during that time, like anyone else with a loss, Then I tried to conceive again after a couple of months and I conceive. And you know how you wait a year, you go to the doctors, they say, wait a year. So I waited a year and still nothing happened. So then I went to explore what was happening, and that's when I eventually got diagnosed with PCOS. That also led to the gynecologist giving me medication that led to me, um, getting a growth where I [00:02:00] had to have, um, it removed and it was a huge growth. So basically it was just a cyst.

  Michelle: A cyst. Okay. Do you remember what medication was? Um, maybe Clomid.

  Margaret: it was climate.

  Michelle: Okay.

  Margaret: but later on then at that stage, was already depleted, but I, um, decided to go and get a second opinion. Uh, you know, sometimes you have to follow your gut. And I went to get a second opinion and the first thing that the other gynecologist said to me was, have you had your husband checked as well? Oh, my husband was with us. Um, have you been checked and. We said no, being sort of ignorant to the fact that obviously both parties should be checked and then when my husband got checked, he had issues as well.

  So that [00:03:00] was, you know, then discovered.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: Basically, um, by that stage. So, you know, it was years that had gone by because I was on ComEd for quite a long time trying to conceive. 'cause the doctor said, I don't know why you're not falling pregnant because you should be. Um, 'cause you didn't see any other issues. And

  Michelle: um.

  Margaret: I reached a stage where I basically was burnt out. Um, I felt totally, um, by many other factors. Like, um, I was trying to emotionally deal with not falling pregnant 'cause I wanted to be a mother more than anything

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: like most of us have. And then obsessed over the fact that I wanted to fall pregnant.

  And of course there's all those issues of everyone around you falling pregnant

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.[00:04:00]

  Margaret: You can't conceive, and so you get into a deep depression as well. basically by this stage also, my husband was trying to deal with was happening. I was trying to deal with what was happening and our relationship. Was having a breakdown as well, because I couldn't communicate with him. He wasn't communicating with me. He felt he was supporting me because not to bring it up and I wasn't talking about it. 'cause I thought by that stage I was to blame. I was the person that caused this, you know, all those feelings of, um, disillusionment and. You know, feeling just totally down.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: that's when um, I met someone, his name was Valentino. He was a [00:05:00] drug and alcohol counselor, and he straightaway identified that I was in that stage of burnout and said, you know, he sort of started to guide me and say to me. You know, you need to take a day at a time.

  You need to really, um, your feelings. And so he guided me with all this emotional, um, emotional, um,

  Michelle: Support.

  Margaret: support, sorry, I couldn't

  Michelle: Um, really quick, um, just so people know, like. She didn't go in there for drug and alcohol for herself, just so people hear because, uh, drug and alcohol. Yeah. She went for somebody else and then realized that she needed a little bit more nurturing.

  Margaret: yes. I went, um, I went to, um, get some information for a friend and then I found out when I [00:06:00] was there, he sort of picked up

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: was. At a level that I shouldn't be, and he just started talking to me just. me some really good tips on how to rebuild myself, and then I realized

  Michelle: a guardian angel.

  Margaret: this anymore.

  So that was really good 'cause that stopped me continuing on this rollercoaster of trying to fall pregnant

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: realizing that my nervous system was totally shambles and I was totally burnt out. I couldn't fall pregnant even if I tried, because basically I had to even give up work at the time because I was feeling, physically, mentally, not well.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: basically it was like total burnout.

  Michelle: Yeah, I mean, um, sometimes too when you're in [00:07:00] that, it, I, I really, I think that it's just so telling that this whole story of how you met your guide really, and because, because I feel like when you're in that kind of deep, deep, dark place. You're the last person to recognize it on yourself. You, you think that everybody else needs help.

  And you went actually to get help for somebody else, not even for yourself. And it's interesting how Valentino was it.

  Margaret: Yes, that's correct. Was

  Michelle: recognized it in you and you didn't even recognize what you needed at the time for yourself.

  Margaret: no.

  Michelle: And so this is kind of, I think the key thing that you're saying that I feel like is so important is that.

  When people get to that place, because the mindset aspect of it is invisible. It's abstract. It's, I always say it's, it's like the sneaky little thing that nobody even realizes impacts your nervous system, [00:08:00] impacts you on every level, and it's, it's sneaky because you're already in that mindset. Therefore, it's very hard to recognize yourself or to see yourself and see.

  Yeah.

  Margaret: And I was in, you know, survival mode. I just was like a robot. I would just do the daily things every day, but I. I, I was all also about the guilt. You know, all the

  Michelle: Yeah. The shame, the guilt. Yeah.

  Margaret: the guilt, um. So I think that like him coming into my life at that time was perfect because I don't know what would've happened if he hadn't. And that made me, he slowly made me realize that I needed to stop this, you know, rollercoaster of trying to fall pregnant just work on myself like. on myself [00:09:00] to reset myself, but to

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: rediscover the person I had lost because I had totally lost Margaret. I was a

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: that I was, when I started trying to fall pregnant.

  I was, I, I, I couldn't even, oh, I don't think I would even recognize myself 'cause I was totally a different person. But on the outside I showed everyone I was fine.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: on the inside I was totally, um, destroyed. Yeah.

  Michelle: That's sad. It's sad to hear because you go through life and you're not fully living. You're like walking around, you know, pretending everything's fine, but you're not really truly living.

  Margaret: And that's why I feel that if people can tell their stories, then other people can understand that. They're, they're, they're not, they're, uh, you know, it's, it's basically what they're going through [00:10:00] is normal, at the same time, they continue on that path, it's not gonna help them fall pregnant. Because then when I did my, you know, whole holistic, like, like I worked on my mind, my heart, everything, and my body. Went into IVF, then decided to try IVF at the age of 39. I fell pregnant in with my first go, so,

  Michelle: Yeah. Amazing.

  Margaret: truly believe that was because stopped and really healed.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: Because a lot of women just go from, you know, having, 'cause I had even more, uh, more than one miscarriage. But they keep going until keep going because they feel, they just have, they have, they've lost time. But

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: time that you spend [00:11:00] healing and rebuilding your mind, your body, and, and your soul,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: then you will. able to fall pregnant because have healed. if you don't do that, then obviously we know from research that stress plays a big part in also not allowing you, your body to receive a new life. And to be honest, if I had received a new life. The, the depleted Margaret, how could I be a good mother as well, because I was so depleted. How could I give what I needed to give to my child? Whereas having had that time,

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: I've enjoyed my motherhood and being able to give my son everything he deserves.[00:12:00]

  Michelle: Yeah, and you really touched upon, I like, I love the fact, not love because it's not, it's not necessarily a good thing, but I think the word just is so soothing that you use as burnout, like, because I think that that is really what a lot of people I see, you know, I see every day at work. They're, they're literally coming to me burnt out and they just, uh, and I remember one specific.

  Patient of mine saying, you know, I'm not coming here for myself. I'm coming here for the baby. And, and then I immediately recognized, wow, we really need to turn this around. And I had to talk to her about that. And there was a point where she really took a break from everything rebuilt herself. Kind of like how you figured that out.

  And I feel like, you know how they say there's, there's steps and stages to, to things like grief. There's stages to a lot of different things in life and I feel like there's also fertility stages. Where you go through that and then you go through trying to, you know, do everything that you could possibly [00:13:00] do to make it work, and then you find yourself burnt out and drained, and then you, you know, somehow, I naturally, people start to realize, okay, well how much, how long can I sustain this?

  How long can I go through this in, in the direction that I'm going without having any self care in this? Process and then finally realizing, wow, I really do need to like nurture myself back to healing because I think eventually you, you do realize that I think it is just unsustainable otherwise.

  Margaret: Yes, exactly. But I, my, the reason I also like really wanted to become a coach and to make the changes and to give my voice and to also let other people understand that, you know, they're not alone. People understand and there is a way to, you know, go through this process feeling calm and confident, [00:14:00] and know that you have, you know, um, yourself fully. You know, in tune with your body, your soul, your mind, your heart,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: was because I realized there was such a gap.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: that's why I wanna get my voice out there too, because, you know, um, going through fertility is not just medical. emotional

  Michelle: Yeah,

  Margaret: enough support in the emotional part,

  Michelle: you're right.

  Margaret: really passionate about that because I, you know, even people that I, I speak to that are, you know, embryologists. even realize there's a gap. And

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: a gap, but they, you know, the medical doctors and everything do a great job,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: this massive gap and we need to also educate others about, you know, people that ha are going through fertility to [00:15:00] understand, you know, it's been linked to like going through a divorce or a death.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. And even cancer. Cancer diagnosis. Yeah.

  Margaret: we need to put that in, you know, the same care as

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: things that we put in the care, you know, and that's my mission, is to get that message out there that we really need to support people that are going through fertility with emotional support That's so important.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: just medical, it's emotional as well.

  Michelle: It really is, and you have a very, uh, you just have a knack for it. You, you're very nurturing by nature and you have that ability, and I think that that's not something that you can really teach anybody. I think that's some something that people have innately. Is, uh, having that compassion, having that understanding, and I think that that is something that is very much needed is people just wanna be heard, they wanna be seen, they wanna be [00:16:00] validated.

  They wanna feel like they can really rely on somebody that understands them. It's very hard because a lot of times in the communities, they don't feel. Understood, because they see, just like you said, people around them getting pregnant. So people don't really fully understand what they're going through, and many times they're going through it in secret and don't really feel comfortable telling people what's going on.

  So it could be very isolating time. A person's life. And so going back actually to your journey, I'd love to hear what was it specifically, or what were some of the things that you did that you really felt brought you back to life or brought you back to a place of grounding?

  Margaret: Yes. So basically, um, I did a lot of reading and discovered the, the importance of the mind

  and your mindset [00:17:00] and how you have to change your deep feelings to understand yourself. So re like resetting yourself as well and understanding yourself. And going back, I found. To me, like, it doesn't mean everyone's got different ways, but I started journaling and that was a real, um, it gave me a lot of peace, like journaling, being

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: my feelings and just putting everything down, even if it's, you know, 'cause I mean. If things are happening, like it could even be a best friend that said something to you that's really upset you your family as well. 'cause it's cultural as well. Like some families just are pushing, you know, um, telling you things like relax and, and, and things that are not working for you. So journaling was really good. I [00:18:00] also, um, found that, um. Things like obviously talking to Valentino that understood. Um, so sometimes you need someone that knows the space, even though he wasn't in the fertility space, he understood how to help people going through trauma. Or going through something. So being able to speak to someone and he taught me that you express your feelings, you say what you feel, you don't leave it inside your body, you actually are able to talk about it.

  So that was good, like being able to express your feelings openly

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: and breath work as well. 'cause the breathing really helps as well.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: Those, those things really started to help. But also the knowledge of, you know, um, the mindset was, um, [00:19:00] like I read a lot of Louise Hayes and Dr. Wayne Dwyer, I just really related to it and it was like they were speaking to me like they understood me finally.

  'cause um, even though I had a lot of love and support around me. I couldn't make the connections. I couldn't get that support. I felt totally alone like

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: feel alone. So being able to not feel that feeling alone.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: Is a big thing to releasing. So being able to release all those fears, release all those negative energies and turn them into something po positive. The other thing that I think really helped was the gratitude.

  Michelle: Yes,

  Margaret: Like being

  Michelle: there is science behind it actually.

  Margaret: yeah. Write down what I'm grateful [00:20:00] for. Um, and also turning around. Not just seeing my life as just having a baby, but seeing my life as who I am, my

  Michelle: Hmm.

  Margaret: what I valued,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: able to put that back into my life because you get so obsessed with trying to have a baby that you don't worry about anything about yourself.

  Michelle: Yep.

  Margaret: you actually lose yourself. So being able to then put back

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: the things that light me up? What are the things that make me happy? And then start to implement those things little by little. It's not big changes, it was just slow progressive changes. And then I started to shift.

  Michelle: Yep.

  Margaret: to shift my mindset, my ideas, my thoughts. It didn't mean I didn't want a baby, and it didn't mean I wouldn't [00:21:00] have a baby. It just meant that I needed to be who I'm supposed to be to bring that baby in. that's basically the major shift. the kind of, and like I said, step by step and Valentine, you say one day at a time, and I

  Michelle: Yeah, it's true.

  Margaret: a time. just do a little shift every day. So even if it was like. I was, um, getting down and, and probably eating the wrong foods, if it wasn't just changing my whole diet. It might've been just implementing one thing every day to change. my food to make me feel better, to give me more energy.

  'cause I didn't have energy as well. So

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: kind of things. So I think it's very, um, personalized. So I think everyone has to find [00:22:00] their core reasons as well, their core values, and then build from that.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: your basically awakening. Everything that has died. I

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: really, but you are actually seeing like your identity, who are you and what are you wanting out of your life, you know, and focusing then back to yourself.

  So filling your cup

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: it's. So

  Michelle: 100%.

  Margaret: filling your cup and then loving and nourishing yourself by doing like the breath work, the journaling, um, the emotional release, whatever ways that helps like. I found walking. That was for me, I found walking the sunlight and I used to love going to the beach and just listening to the waves.

  Just those little things. Just, um, personalizing it for you [00:23:00] to put joy back into your life. Yeah. That kind of thing. And also yourself time for compassion, like. am I treating myself this way and a lot of rest? I, and then when those things happen that I was doing slowly, I could rest because I was always awake and, and, you know, why?

  Why aren't I falling pregnant? And all those? And self-sabotaging yourself all the time and then changing your words was another one. So instead of, you know, like reframing, so instead of saying, I'm useless, I'm hopeless. You know, changing those words that you say to yourself that destroy the, destroys you as a person, basically. I think those things were the main things initially that I started doing, [00:24:00] and as I grew in more understanding. was like, it was like a, a wheel that turned and I just added more and more and I built myself up to the level that I felt good again. You know, and I had joy in my life and I could, you know, contribute to life. Whereas before it was just surviving life. That was a survival mode that I

  Michelle: So interesting how you say that, because I always talk about it. I mean, really like. How our nervous system functions. It goes, it's kind of like a, it teeters between survival or, you know, look the sympathetic, which is con considered the fight or flight. It's not always just fight or flight. It could be very alert and it's part of what, what we need, you know, it's part of, it's a very necessary aspect of ourselves.

  Um, it's what gets [00:25:00] stimulated when you're driving and when you're up, when you're focused. It's a hyper focus, but the big thing is that it needs to shift from that to the rest and digest the parasympathetic. It almost sounds like, um, kind of like we're putting a judgment on it, like a fight or flight, but it could be sympathetic.

  It could be also very focused if it's done correctly. If it's done in a way that's balanced. And then the rest and digest is us being able to let go and kind of move away from this hyper focus of whatever's in front of us and allow us to get into a state where we're able to digest. And it, it's more of a growth aspect.

  And what you were saying really reflects that. It, it's where we can create the body becomes more creative, more easy, more flowy, more um. Imaginative. We go into the kind of like more space and we allow ourselves to, in a sense, kind of float, you know, and be held. And so there's that [00:26:00] doing versus receiving aspect of ourselves.

  And like I said, there's not, like, one is bad, one is good. You know, we, we tend to shift from one or the other. However, when we get to. Set on one or too much in one state. And most of us, when we're going through very stressful times in our lives, can find ourselves in a survival mode. And when we're in this constant perpetual survival mode, it will deplete, it will zap your energy.

  And as we know, excels, um, sperm cells. Mitochondria is really important. The mitochondria is the really the powerhouse of the cells. And the reason why egg cells, for example, have so much mitochondria compared hundreds of thousands more compared to regular cells in the body. It it, there's a reason nature doesn't make mistakes.

  It doesn't just randomly do things. It does it so that it sets it up [00:27:00] for the energy it takes to create new life. And if your energy is being zapped from all over the place. How in the world is it gonna be able to create new life? And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know. If you're zapped, you could feel it.

  Your body's so intelligent, it speaks to you all the time. You feel drained because your body just wants you to sleep, your body wants you to rest so that it can recharge. And that's, uh, you know, it's like our phone battery. It's the same thing. I mean, we see it like it just doesn't function optimally if it's on a low percentage.

  Margaret: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And if you're not calm, like how can you, you know, receive the, you know, the new life that you want in your body? So it's all about like being able to shift it from, you know,

  Michelle: Yeah, it's a restoration.

  Margaret: the restoration part and being able to receive. Yeah, I

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: agree in [00:28:00] what you're

  Michelle: And I think that what you said was really important. You said one day at a time. It's less overwhelming that way, and I think that that's the key thing. You know, I feel like a lot of people go through, they almost feel pressured to relax. That's like an extra pressure that people feel like, oh my God, now I have to figure out a way to relax.

  And I have to, so it's kind of all these extra pressures that people feel. Even something, it's like counterproductive because it's kind of like, how can I relax if I feel pressured to relax? It's just all of these, and then the, you know, there, there's the judgment, you know, oh, you could just relax and you're gonna be fine.

  And, you know, the judgment, the, the feeling misunderstood. And it's, but it's true. People say it a lot. It just, uh, it doesn't get, it just keeps happening, you know? So. So those are the things that people feel like, well, how do I do that? And I think that you saying that and kind of naming that like one day at a time feels so much less [00:29:00] overwhelming than to think about all of it at once.

  Margaret: Yes, exactly. And you know, thing that we're trying to change is that women shouldn't have to carry this emotional load alone. They should be able to get support so that they can do one day at a time. You

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

  Margaret: you know, fertility is a whole person journey. It's the body, the mind, the heart, the nervous system, all of that. And when women understand how they can, you know, provide the, the care needed for. For your body, your mind, your heart, and your nervous system, they're naturally gonna feel calmer. They're

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: going to be able to deal with things that happen in a

  Michelle: Right.

  Margaret: way than they would've if they didn't have those tools and strategies.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: about having those tools and [00:30:00] strategies, you know, in your toolkit that

  Michelle: Yep.

  Margaret: just pop out when you need. And it's just like, even the breath, like just doing that simple breath.

  Michelle: Yeah,

  Margaret: can just calm you. Like,

  Michelle: it's true. It's an immediate hack. It's the best brain hack ever. Um, that will, that is your, your light switch to shift your nervous system right there then and there is your breath.

  Margaret: And just having those in, you know, being able to use them when needed,

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: use different tools because we're all. And you know, some people might like to visualize or meditate, which are also great tools, but obviously each person will find the tools that will really help them through this journey.

  Michelle: What would've, what would it have meant to you to find a fertility coach on [00:31:00] your journey?

  Margaret: Oh my goodness.

  Michelle: Looking back, because back then, I don't know if they, it's more of a recent thing.

  Margaret: They didn't have, um, I was just blessed that I met Valentino because he had tools and strategies that he gave me, but. I must admit, even though I went through the process, and of course it took me so long before I, you know, restored myself, I think if I had a fertility coach, it wouldn't have taken me four or five years to do that.

  I think I would've been able to do that. Um. Quicker, but also being able to have someone that totally knew, could see me and understand me, knew my

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: because had been through it or

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: you know, the processes and everything. And I also think by having that fertility coach, like. [00:32:00] I know that I would've been able to go, like I said, go through the process a lot quicker and that's why I wanted, I wanted to become a fertility coach and left education to do that because I knew that you can have these tools and strategies and really it can change your life. It changed mine. It changed mine, and I'm so grateful that had met Valentino. But I know now that if I was going through, you know, fertility issues, I, that would be the first thing I would get is a, coach to help me, um, guide me and give me these tools to get through, um, the journey in a peaceful and calm way,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: Because everyone's journey is different. It doesn't mean that you have to go [00:33:00] through it bump by bump, by bump, bump. You know, you

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: like go through it smoothly.

  Michelle: Yes, it's true. It, it is true. And everybody's different. Every journey is different. Um, completely. And everybody has, even though there's similar, um, things that people can relate to there, it's such an individual, uh, path. It's an individual way of seeing things, individual perspective, a hundred percent.

  Margaret: And I also feel that, like I didn't realize the holistic part of it. So thank you for doing your course, Michelle. 'cause that was just fabulous. I, it just spoke to me because of my journey and when I was doing your course, I'm going, oh my goodness, this is exactly what I need. You know, this is exactly what's going to be able to help me to help others.

  It was just really aligned to my beliefs

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: and. [00:34:00] My beliefs came from going through that journey, so you know, I would vouch for it. A hundred percent. And also really knowing that the holistic part is about looking after your whole self, not just thinking, oh, I just have to, you know, um, do this part. It's about really deep work, like it's

  Michelle: Yes, a hundred percent.

  Margaret: your heart, and, and just learning more things about how everything is connected.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. Everything's connected and this is why, um, you know, Chinese medicine really looks at the person as a whole. They don't, uh, look at parts or just symptoms or, you know, it's, it's really mind, body, spirit. Uh, it's all of it's important. Nothing is not important. So it's, even if you're very spiritual, but you're eating junk food or if you're eating really perfectly felt healthy, but you're really hard on [00:35:00] yourself.

  So it's kind of like addressing all of those different aspects. And believe it or not, I have a lot of people in the doing the course that are actively on their fertility journey, helping themselves and others at the same time, which is pretty amazing, really amazing that they're, you know. To do that when you're going through it yourself?

  Yeah,

  Margaret: And I agree because your course covers, you know, the holistic side of it and some co like, uh, you know, some courses just look at. Fertility in general medical, but again, that's not what I was,

  Michelle: yeah, yeah. The whole, yeah.

  Margaret: it is, not just, you know, to know what, you know, what medication to take, or if you've got PCOS, you should be doing this.

  You know,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: each condition it has got different, it's yes. knowledge is important of course, 'cause it changes what you do and [00:36:00] how you are gonna feel, but it's not just that. So I

  Michelle: And it's also, uh, you, it's you, Margaret as, as your individual because, um, how you are taking it, how you're translating it, and how you're passionate about it, because that's something that a person can't really be taught. It's a, that, that passion that comes through you, that wants to help others, that to help them on things that you've been through.

  To alleviate some of the difficulties and some of, you know, the extra, uh, weight they're carrying, you know? So that is a hundred percent you and I I wanna say that because that is something that you have and you, what I love about wor like the time that I've had working with you, and you are just a really genuinely.

  Such great hearted person. I, you don't meet a lot of people like that, that are genuinely like wanting to help people like, like a really, [00:37:00] really authentically,

  Margaret: Oh, thank you, Michelle. That means a lot to me. You, um, I, I mean, I, if I can even change one person's pathway make it smoother and calmer, it's, um, it definitely is. Um, what I, you know, would like to do is to help other people. 'cause I really feel that if. I've got a motto is embrace the journey.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: know, embrace it, transform with purpose and the purpose part that you are using the tools and strategies and empower your future by doing that. 'cause I feel that, um, through what I went through, basically that pathway was what I. know, I felt at the end I did, and I [00:38:00] felt like that it did empower my future, um, for the positive, um, ways, you know, that's why I want to, you know, um, and that's why I worked on really coming up with a program that could do that, like. Holistically.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. Talk about the fertility godmother, how you stepped into that role.

  Margaret: so, um, obviously I don't want people to spend five years trying and that's not necessary anymore because we do have the tools and strategies. So I've, um, done a holistic program that, um. Aligns your mind, body, and heart and soul. And it's basically, um, the purpose of it is to give you [00:39:00] emotional steadiness for your body trust and inner safety. Um, so whether you are, know, feeling that you, it's good if someone's gotta go through treatment like IVF to do this beforehand, or if someone feels that really they're at, you know, they're feeling, a little burnt out or. Feeling that they're going down that rabbit hole. So what I do there is, um, I do two weeks where we awaken.

  So we listen to the story, we look at the values, we look at the person's identity. We also do the cycle awareness so that their understanding their bodies more, so they're really awakening to their emotional patterns. Any burnout. they might have. So basically, it's really important for people to be aware about what's happening to their [00:40:00] bodies and their minds, so that that's the first two weeks. Then the next two weeks is Love and Nourish. So what we do is we do breath work, we do We look at other, uh, strategies that they might put into place slowly into their, their routines to help them steady their, um, look at rest. Compassion and we also look at nervous system rituals, so to help them

  Michelle: Love that.

  Margaret: system, which is really important. Then week five, we do mindset. 'cause we mindset changing the mindset is really important. We do belief work and we also do visualizations. If obviously the program is. Structured to suit the individual person.

  Michelle: So this is all one-on-one.

  Margaret: Yeah, it's [00:41:00] all one-on-one and that's important because it has to fit with, you know, their belief systems, what they feel will help them. Then in week six we do grounding, so we do like stress triggers regulation, and we really look at the support because I feel. That the support system they have around them. So especially like partner work and things like that is really vitally important. And I know it's important because of how my marriage broken and had to go through repair like before, you know, during that time.

  And that's also why it took such a long time before I went through IVF as well because everything was broken.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: we don't wanna get to that stage. We want to make sure that we have those support systems that we are communicating in a way [00:42:00] that is supportive with your partner or whoever that might be, or a friend, whoever the support system is. Then we do, um, week seven, we do like nurture. So we look at, um, boundaries as well. So not just relationships. So

  Michelle: important.

  Margaret: boundaries are really, really important because we need to put those in place

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: because sometimes, um, people can't understand. So you've gotta put those boundaries

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Margaret: we can, we do align, we do alignment plan.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: we do like a future vision as well. And the alignment plan is individualized for that person

  Michelle: Mm-hmm. Amazing.

  Margaret: by that, by week eight, they've already got like a flow through of what they're doing and they see the shifts.

  Michelle: Yes, the transformation

  Margaret: along [00:43:00] the way. So that's

  Michelle: and I have to say she's pretty much giving this away for way under. It's, I mean, this is an incredible opportunity for whoever's listening because, um, if you wanna take it from there and, and tell them this and insane opportunity that people can.

  Margaret: Hmm. Yes. So I basically wanna offer it to a, a select number of people, obviously, that I can cater for. 'cause it is a one-to-one program and I'm offering it for $200. Um, because I, obviously it, I'm.

  Michelle: So this is eight one-on-one calls. By the way, you guys, it's, it's insane amount of information.

  Margaret: they also have like, um, people are wanna do it as the program should be. So it's eight, like the first week and the last week is [00:44:00] more than an hour.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Margaret: Um, because. The first week we are discovering and talking and working out what the person, how they want to go along with the program. So that's. Um, probably an hour and a half. And the last week, because we are doing an alignment plan, would be an hour and a half to two hours. then the other weeks it's an hour one-on-one coaching and also they get a journal, so there's a journal to that they can use alongside the program. And at the end we build things as well that they get something at the end that they can go away with, which is not just the alignment plan, but also something built in that will support whatever journey they go on we do the eight weeks program, if you know they have questions or they wanna reach out, [00:45:00] um, we also have that possibility of. You know, um, asking questions or being able to, so it's not just one-on-one, but I want it to be like they feel supported all the way through the eight weeks.

  Michelle: Such an incredible gift. Amazing. And I'm going to be putting in an application in the episode notes for anybody who wants to apply. Um, I highly recommend you take advantage of this 'cause I don't know that like anything like this is out, available out there.

  Margaret: Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Um. I, I totally believe in the program and I really believe that someone starting the program wherever they're at, at, in their fertility journey, are gonna come out feeling stronger, feeling more calm, feeling they have strategies and tools to move forward. also feeling that, um. You know, [00:46:00] a different mindset in how they're gonna approach that. They also will have, you know, uh, like skills for partner relationships and also boundaries. So that's, I think, really important as well. yes, um,

  Michelle: Amazing Margaret.

  Margaret: to have, you know, anyone on board so that I can make those changes for them.

  Michelle: Amazing. Amazing, amazing. So, Margaret, I am so excited we finally got you on here, and I just really like, I, I really adore you. You're just such a sweet person. I'm so happy I met you and I'm so happy to finally have you on the podcast. So thank you so much, Margaret, for coming on today.

  Margaret: Thank you, Michelle. Honestly, from the sincerely from the bottom of my heart, thank you for allowing me to get this message across to your listeners and [00:47:00] um, I absolutely adore you too, as you know.

  Michelle: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Ep 370 The Truth About Fertility Decline and Reproductive Longevity with Gabriella Rosa

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Gabriella Rosa @dr.gabrielarosa, a globally recognised fertility specialist and researcher, to unpack the truth about fertility after 40.

We explore why age alone is not the real issue, what actually impacts egg and sperm quality, and how metabolic health, lifestyle factors, and emotional wellbeing play a much bigger role in conception than most people are told. Gabriella also shares insights from her clinical research and discusses the importance of addressing fertility-related trauma and stress.

This episode offers clarity, hope, and evidence-based guidance for anyone navigating fertility in their late 30s and 40s.

Key Takeaways: 

• Fertility myths around age 35 and 40

• Egg quality, sperm quality, and mitochondrial health

• Why fertility is a team effort

• Metabolic health and lifestyle factors that influence conception

• The emotional impact of infertility and why support matters

• Gabriella’s clinical trial supporting emotional wellbeing in fertility

Connect with Gabriela Rosa:

Website: https://fertilitybreakthrough.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FertilitySpecialistGabrielaRosa
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.gabrielarosa/
Fertility Breakthrough Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fertilitybreakthrough/
Fertility Breakthrough Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rosainstitutefertilitybreakthrough

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Grabriella: Welcome back to the podcast, Gabrielle, I'm so happy to have you.

  Thank you so much. You know, it's so lovely when I get to invited back so that I know that, okay, the first conversation went really well and people have gotten benefit and it's always wonderful. So thank you for having me.

  Of course. And we covered so many different things, but I'd like to get a little bit more deep dive with you, um, on a topic that. I hear often and it's, um, it's a topic I feel pretty passionate about too because I think that there's a lot of misconception about it. And it's fertility over 40. You know, people, people even say, you know, after 35, it just goes nose dive, and I've seen so many, so many conceptions happen after 40.

  And then you also, I always love sharing the Guinness Book of World Records, Don Brooks. Who got pregnant and had a healthy baby at 59[00:01:00]

  Wow. Yeah, that's, wow.

  you know, those stories

  I hope that doesn't happen to me, Michelle. All I have to say.

  that is so great. No, no, me too, me too. I'm like, um, I'm good there. But it just shows the possibilities

  Yeah. Yeah.

  we believe in a certain, um, like limit on what our bodies are capable of. And I know that you have a lot of amazing. You've had a lot of results in that and worked with a lot of people over 40, so I'd love to really explore that topic

  Yeah, absolutely.

  in that.

  Yeah, for sure.

  I think that it's, you've started it exactly where I think a lot of people. Land when they first hear of the conversation of fertility or infertility is that after 35, your fertility takes a nose dive and it's like, oh my God, can we please stop perpetuating that? Um, it's not to say that biologically.

  [00:02:00] Women do have at this point. And it's interesting 'cause you know, every time I start this conversation, I think about how obsolete this conversation is going to be in 50 years from now. You know? Because right now we do have a biological limit in terms of women are born with all the aids that we will ever have.

  But I am pretty certain that. You know, in a not so distant future with all of the research that's going on regarding stem cells and, you know, different aspects, and I don't wanna say specific things because we're still very early on, I often get asked about. Procedures right now that people, you know, see as possibly available to them.

  And the evidence really isn't there for a lot of these things that are being sold, you know, quote unquote in the marketplace to women who are desperate and who want to, you know, give themselves the best possible chance of having a baby. [00:03:00] And so I'm always hesitant to say. You know, women need to do things to improve their egg quality.

  From a perspective of interve high level interventions, uh, you know, there are absolutely things that are going to make a huge difference in terms of improving egg quality for women at any age. That come from taking charge of the things you do and optimizing results. So from that perspective, and we'll dive deeper into that, um, I highly recommend that people pay attention to the things that they're exposed to in their day-to-day, the choices that we make.

  You know, all of those things will be important when it comes to egg quality. But, you know, going back to the conversation that we were just having. When we talk about in the next 50 years where it's going to and how it's going to be possible for ovarian reserve to replenish itself or for us to be able to develop more eggs.[00:04:00]

  And have babies with our own eggs and extend the longevity of reproduction for women. You know, the, this, the, the sky's the limit. You know, I think as we start to dive deep into these new and unchartered washes, but we're still kind of very early on in that process. You know? Yes, there are some animal model studies.

  There are some interesting, you know, things that are being done in terms of science. But from a, from a viability perspective of it actually being done right now, it, it's, we're not there yet. You know, so we have to then have the concept that we don't want to be delaying fertility for the sake of delaying or for the sake of the fact that.

  You know, it is true that life extent, uh, um, average, the, the, the, um, sorry, the life expectancy rates of [00:05:00] populations have increased drastically, you know, just 50 years ago. If you think about it, you know, we were dying at 50 or 60, you know, whereas the life expectancy. Today in Western countries. I mean, I know that in Australia it's 84.5 years for females, you know?

  So you think about that and you go, wow, okay, so if I'm going to be alive with good quality of life into my eighties, and fertility wise, let's say menopause is the. Natural end of, and again, you know, in these types of cases where women are conceiving afterwards, it's not that it's impossible, it's just that it becomes highly unlikely.

  Um, but, you know, post menopause. But um, before menopause, certainly we need to start thinking about the fact that, okay, if we're hitting menopause, say on average. At [00:06:00] 45 to 50, and we know that five years, five to 10 years before menopause and the diagnostic criteria, there is one year of no periods. After, you know, you basically have ceased periods for one year and your FSH levels rise, your estrogen levels decrease.

  Then, you know, okay, I am in menopause. Five to 10 years before that, we women find themselves into this stage called perimenopause, which is where. There are more imbalances in terms of hormonal levels. There are more challenges in terms of regularity of cycles. Egg quality also decreases and ovarian reserve decreases as well.

  And so, you know, from that perspective, we do have to take into account that we. Right now, we'll hit that place somewhere. If we talk about five to 10 years before, if somebody hits menopause at [00:07:00] 45, then you know, from 35 to 40, they already are potentially in that perimenopause stage. If they hit menopause at 50.

  At 45 to 40, they are already in that perimenopausal state in perimenopause. It is not impossible. In fact, there are still many things you can do to optimize the chances of taking home a healthy baby. And so a lot of the patients that we would be seeing would be in that kind of, you know, 30 to say 45, you know, range where.

  They could potentially, and certainly when we talk about premature ovarian failure or premature ovarian sufficiency, where a woman is much younger and has a very elevated FSH and ovarian reserve, that's much declined. It obviously also comes into the conversation of like, okay, is it still possible to optimize the egg quality that is remaining so that we can improve the chances of taking [00:08:00] home a healthy baby?

  And the answer is absolutely yes. And in those situations, what is really important to highlight, and I think that it's even more important to take into consideration, is the fact that if we do have lower ovarian reserve, and if we do have impacted egg quality, sperm quality becomes of paramount importance because it is.

  The egg that has to, you know, do all of the work to ensure that we don't have the, the errors in the DNA of the sperm being passed on to a, a potential embryo or potential child. And so what happens is the egg has to utilize its own energy production that, you know, it's mitochondria that is already kind of struggling a little bit.

  For improving its own, um, division and, and maturation process. And then of course we'll have to go on [00:09:00] to produce an embryo development, you know, process. Um, it's going to have a much harder time if the sperm is not good quality, right? If we, if it's having to utilize its energy to. Eradicate or prevent those DNA fragmentation errors to be passed onto the baby, it's going to have less energy for embryo development and you know, kind of that whole process.

  So that's where we need to start really looking at this conversation. And we've talked about before, and I always say that fertility is a team sport and this is very much why? Because from a mechanistic perspective. Effective. If we don't have the best quality sperm, we are going to be putting an additional burden on the egg.

  That is, you know, that is not warranted. And certainly that didn't need to be there. So, you know, even though, and I think that this is the important takeaway from this whole conversation, is that. [00:10:00] As much as at this stage, we want to think that female fertility can be extended beyond, you know, uh, it's kind of quote unquote natural stages.

  It cannot. And so we do have to ensure that we're being smart about what it is that we do. We are not delaying. And it's important also for men to realize that because males male fertility is seen as more. Infinite, so to speak. It's not infinite by any means. Right. But we, we do hear in the media, you know, oh, Hugh Hefner made a Playboy, uh, Playboy Bunny pregnant, you know, um, at 90, and you kind of go, well, yeah, but she was 20, you know, and so.

  It's a very, very different situation with mitochondrial health being different and egg quality parameters being in a different, at a much earlier age, it can afford [00:11:00] to utilize its energy to fix the errors in a 90-year-old sperm, um, as opposed to, and the sperm is not 90-year-old because obviously sperm is being produced throughout a male's lifetime.

  But, um, the quality of its, uh, DNA certainly does decrease with. Time. And so, you know, it's a different conversation. So I think that a lot of, a lot of men think that, oh, I don't really need to worry about my fertility so much because obviously, you know, it's a woman's issue, which again, hopefully by now people understand that it's not and why it's not.

  But, um, it, with us seeing that, you know, sperm parameters are declining. With age and as the passing of time. Just even, you know, like I was reading a study, I was reading a a, an analysis the other day that was talking about the fact that since the 1970s sperm count, male sperm counts have decreased by 60%.[00:12:00]

  60%.

  I've heard of that. It's nuts.

  It's absolutely insane.

  so the, the normal, today's is not by any means what the normal used to be. So

  I.

  been like almost dumbed down to be considered normal.

  And, and this is the thing that a lot of times people don't understand is that reference ranges for lab results actually are derived from the population. So what happens is that if health is declining in the entire population over time, and diabetes and diabetes diagnosis and blood sugar level. You know, parameters and insulin parameters are a great example of this, and they also drastically impact fertility.

  But sperm is another one where, you know what a normal sperm count used to be in the seventies is literally 60 times higher, 60% higher than it is now. And now it's like, you know, you get 20 million, which is the minimum that you [00:13:00] know we need to have now. And most men struggle. You know, who, uh, who are having fertility problems, especially, you know, a huge percentage of the population who struggle to conceive.

  You know, if we talk about the fact that it's a 40% male factor, 40% female factor, and 20% embryonic factor. The reasons as to why people don't conceive or take a healthy pregnancy to term. So again, increased risk of miscarriage. Increased risk of infertility becomes a major issue here. Um, it's, it's, you know, it's not a woman's thing at all.

  It's actually a couple's thing to begin with. That then gets impacted by the embryo that ensues from those originating cells. So if we want to make those embryos into healthier embryos, we do have to pay attention to what's happening in terms of egg quality and sperm quality. For sure.

  And what do you think it is that causes it? I mean, we know environmental toxins, like what are your thoughts on why [00:14:00] it's

  Look. Absolutely environmental toxins will play a role. But if you also think about how men used to work back in. You know, the fifties, sixties, uh, the fifties, we started to have more office work, right. Being part of the, the, the day to day. But, you know, there used to be a lot more movement in general in terms of people actually not sitting down.

  At their desks the whole day. There used to be a lot more activity. And if you think about, just from a, purely from a heat perspective that we know impacts sperm, you know, we know that sedentary behavior increases the, the risk of many chronic illnesses, but it's also having a huge impact on, in terms of sperm because.

  There is a reason why the testicles hang outside of the body. It's because typically the testicles, in order to produce quality sperm, need to be about one degree centigrade lower than the rest of the body. And so what that [00:15:00] means is that if we are heating the testicles because we're sitting, men are sitting on it the whole day on their desks and doing computer work, or they have occupational hazards that are part of, you know, that conversation and then they go out.

  Side and they engage in cycling that, you know, retypes and do all sorts or have their phones in their pockets, or go in the baths or spas or saunas, you know, anything that increases heat to the testicles is going to negatively impact. Firm and you know, sitting down on the couch all day for four hours watching Netflix after work they've already been sitting all day is certainly not going to be beneficial.

  But then, you know, outside of that obvious kind of very physical mechanistic process, there is also the fact that, you know, we do have more endocrine disruptors than ever in our environment. And so what that ends up meaning or translating into is the fact that, okay, now what we have is a [00:16:00] situation. Where there are exposures from our food, from where our food is packaged to what we put on our bodies and the air we breathe that really are impacting that lock and key, that is how the endocrine system operates.

  You know, the cell. Is the lock and the hormone is the key. A hormone is a substance that you know is, is built in one part of the body and affect another part of the body. And what happens with these endocrine disruptors is that they mimic the key. And so you end up with something that is, you know, estrogen.

  And a lot of these endocrine disruptors are estrogenic. Now men need to have a higher dose of testosterone in, they're circulating in their body in order to be able to produce sperm. And because a lot of these endocrine disruptors are estrogenic, what ends up happening is that they're being loaded with additional estrogens that were never naturally found, you know, in most men's uh, [00:17:00] bloodstreams, and certainly not in the cell receptors that these mimicking chemicals find themselves in.

  And so instead of, you know, the cell receptor for testosterone, having. A molecule of testosterone in that cell receptor that's going to do the right job that is encoded for it to do. It has a mimicking molecule that basically, essentially changes the function or the instruction that is delivered to that cell.

  And so we end up with issues that, you know, obviously we didn't anticipate in terms of many health conditions. I mean, we are seeing. Lots of different estrogen related cancers in men these days because of this very reason. So, you know, I think that there is an environmental component that is really a big part of what we need to take into account as well.

  And now I'm learning about LEDs and [00:18:00] how, I mean, we're still programmed by light and, and are. really respond to the circadian rhythm of nature.

  Hmm.

  then you have LEDs, which don't have a complete spectrum. I can confuse the body as well, and I'm learning about that. There's so many, um, aspects of how we're living.

  It's crazy.

  Yeah. I mean, look, you know, this is the thing. I think we are, the human body is highly unprepared for modern life. You know, there's the, and especially the speed in which technology is developing and unveiling new and improved, quote unquote, you know, ways of living. Certainly convenience is at an all time high.

  Uh, bodies, they weren't built for convenience. Really, if you think about it, what actually kept us healthy was the struggle, right? And so we are now in a situation where. We don't have those same struggles in the day to day and we have to add back some [00:19:00] friction to be able to, you know, really help the body to kind of rebalance.

  And, you know, this is one of those other really interesting points too, that, you know, the adaptation response that is required for the body to be in homeostasis is also being confused, right? So there is a lot that the body can take, but. For the most part, one of the things that I think we need to, to understand, and it's almost kind of like going back to um, an earlier time so to speak, is the fact that.

  The body really does know what to do. Its internal wisdom is in impressive on so many levels, right? And so sometimes it's not what we need to do. It's not doing more. That is the answer. It's like, what are the things that we need to stop doing, right? What are the things that we need to remove from. Our day to day, that actually helps to enhance [00:20:00] the way that our body operates simply from and not being there.

  And I think identifying those things for ourselves that each person kind of knows. You know, like if I was to go back to a more natural way of living. What does that look like? Um, I think that that's a question that more and more we're going to need to ask ourselves. And it's not to say that, you know, we ignore technology or these conveniences.

  There are many, many things that, you know, are wonderful. I mean, just the development of antibiotics for one is, you know, like I would never, if somebody needs antibiotics, I'd be the first one to be saying, go take it. You know, like there's no need to apply. Some herbal medicine to, you know, something that will be resolved for, you know, with an antibiotic.

  Like, you know, sometimes I get patients in my clinic that have literal infections that are silent, but are causing infertility. Chlamydia is, you know, a, a common one. Like I'm not gonna be telling them, oh, here, [00:21:00] take a bottle of herbal medicines. It's not that I don't use herbal medicines, we certainly do, where it's indicated and where it's necessary, and there are some incredible benefits to utilizing it.

  But it's about knowing what tool to use when, rather than we only do one thing, or we only do things in a certain way because then we lose the benefit of technology and development and we start to add friction where it, we shouldn't, you know?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I think that everything, if you really take all of the different technologies and look at the ancient wisdom and then also the modern technology and combine it, and I think that that's what makes a really good practitioner is somebody who can decipher

  Yeah. Absolutely a hundred percent. And also I think that, you know, it's, it's about patients learning where things are most effective. Let me give you an example. You know, sometimes we, I often have people asking me [00:22:00] about, you know, like, should I take metformin right? For improving my insulin resistance? And I say, well.

  equality, they say, uh,

  That's right. And, and it's actually for implantation. You know, there's a lot of studies now coming out and they, and some of these studies, by the way, they're not actually human studies. They're, they're animal models. And so I think that one of the really important things to highlight here is that there's a lot that gets talked about, or especially on social media, like.

  Uh, yesterday I did a video. I do a lot of patient education on my Instagram account. Gabriela Rosa fertility is the handle. But you know, like yesterday I did a video on seed cycling because seed cycling is something that gets perpetuated a lot. There is no human evidence on the impact of seeds on hormonal regulation in the body.

  Okay, now if you like seeds. And you wanna eat them. They're crunchy. They're delicious in salads. You know, they're going to provide fiber, they're going to provide some omegas. You know, it's not that I'm saying don't eat [00:23:00] seeds. It's that the way in which people then want to extrapolate. Evidence from an animal model or an animal animal study into human, you know, processing is, is inaccurate at best and dangerous at worst.

  Because what ends up happening is that then people think that, okay, I'm going to not take. The appropriate treatment to go and do something that is being denoted on social media, as you know, the way, their natural way to improve my hormones. And it, it, it's bollocks. It doesn't work. It's not actually, you know, the, the intention of benefit is there, but.

  You know, good intentions aren't everything. Sure Placebo still results in 30% of the benefits in drug trials. 30% of the result is actually derived from placebo. So if you think it works, it probably, you know, will give you some benefit, [00:24:00] but the reality is.

  harm. And that's, that's the

  You see, but this is the problem. The problem is that there is harm because if you think about it, if somebody is taking quote unquote, some, you know, trendy, whatever from social media and applying that instead of applying effectiveness and effective treatment.

  They've lost the opportunity to actually make a difference to their situation. And so there is harm in that. And I think that there is a lot that we need to take into account when we are making recommendations to general public that it's not, it's, there is no neutral effect in a recommendation that a practitioner makes because the practitioner.

  At the end of the day is being seen as the person that is guiding that, that individual, towards hopefully a better outcome. And so if we're giving, you know, evidence-based rubbish as recommendations, people get confused and in that there is harm, whether it's [00:25:00] misinformation that's not derived from a malice of wanting to misinform to make money, which then becomes this information.

  It doesn't matter because by the time somebody has lost the opportunity to have a baby altogether, because they were doing a thousand things that would actually not move the needle in their particular situation because they heard from a book or they heard from a forum, or they heard from somebody's social media account that it's the thing to do well, we've done harm.

  Right. And I think that that's the, the problem.

  is harmful, like things

  Oof.

  like is really harmful because knowing what's really happening in your body, and people do, I mean, because you're able to get the supplements, those kind of things. But if you're having, um, you know, certain diets, of course if you're doing it exce, uh, like instead of something else, then yes, it's harmful, but. If you're doing it in addition, and it's just like, it's really just adding more things to your diet. Different story.

  Oh, for sure. I think that, you know, again, it's, it's really. [00:26:00] How people understand the communication of accurate information. Right. But going back to the example in terms of like Metformin the best way still, you know, and I've done extensive reviews on this topic. Insulin resistance is one of the biggest issues when it comes to ovulation.

  You know, failure, irregularity of cycles, sperm parameter issues, you know, and it's silent and usually people don't even understand that they have it, or their doctors don't even get to diagnose it because they, they do it too late. Uh, and, and so what happens is that. The best way still, if you go to the evidence and you, you can do a clinical, uh, uh, a full literature review on this, and you will find that still, the best way to improve insulin resistance and blood sugar parameters is diet and exercise.

  If in some instances it's necessary because people either are not compliant [00:27:00] enough or they have some other issues in terms of the compliance aspect, then sure we can add Medica medications to that, and of course where there are metabolic disease already in situ, then obviously there might be a need for medications to help to correct those issues.

  If somebody already has diabetes, then yes, take your insulin right. The reality of it is that when we are looking at hormonal imbalances derived from a metabolic place in terms of like blood sugar dysregulation, insulin resistance, in the very early stages, diet and exercise is going to be better than drugs and medication.

  But that's not the message that most people receive or understand because, well, there are misaligned in interests in the healthcare system, right? And we also as patients, uh, you know, most people want convenience. So most people are going to like, you know, if I can get. Take a [00:28:00] pill and not have to bother about all of these other things that take time, effort, energy, and and so on.

  Then I might just take the pill. But that goes back to the conversation that we were having before where the convenience is actually not in our best interest. Right, because it's, this is precisely where like if you really want to improve insulin resistance, hey, 45 minutes of zone rate in zone, zone range two, uh, heart rate range, um, training 45 minutes.

  Three to four times a week and go build muscle at the gym and you're going to do a much better job at your overall health. The way that I like to think about this, uh, in terms of building muscle and that whole mitochondrial impact throughout all of your cells that are going to help to improve every aspect of health and fertility, it's almost like.

  Muscle is the air filter of the system, you know, uh, air purifier, so to speak. [00:29:00] So it's going to be removing and utilizing items and things within the bloodstream that actually is going to help the environment for the egg maturation period and for the sperm maturation or development period. To to happen in a better way.

  So by us ensuring that we are implementing healthy strategies in our day to day, from building muscle to a healthy diet, we're going to be not only impacting. Our cells and how our body operates in general, but we are going to be having a very direct impact on fertility from adding those strategies. So it really is, it's a comprehensive approach that's going to ultimately optimize the chances of taking home a healthy baby.

  But. Knowing when to utilize convenience and knowing when to actually go for the hard stuff at the gym is a really important part of this conversation for optimizing fertility over [00:30:00] 40 or at any age. Right? One of the things that I do say to my patients all the time is that. If you want to improve and optimize your mitochondrial health for your eggs, and this is not going to have a direct impact on eggs necessarily, but what happens is that if your body is in better health overall and your mitochondrial health is better in your body overall, what ends up happening is that it gives those those cells that are in development better opportunity to be healthier and that can only improve your fertility outcomes.

  Yeah, 100%. It, it really is truly like a holistic approach and to understand that your body is not made in little, um, you're not focusing on the puzzle pieces. You're, you're looking at the whole picture.

  Wow.

  everything impacts everything. And then, you know, even worse than metformin, you know, this whole ozempic baby trend that's happening.

  And, uh, people don't realize that in some cases it can really impact digestive [00:31:00] system and in a way that's irreversible. there are, it's not coming for free. And there's always like, you know, the shortcuts that people, you know, they, they've had stories when we were little, like on shortcuts

  Yeah.

  is for free.

  There's no such thing as a shortcut.

  You see, this is the thing, and I think that that's a really important thing for people to realize. Like GLP ones are a miracle. Like honestly, they are a miracle of modern technology and of pharmaceutical prowess. Like I will take my hat off any day of the week and say that, you know. For certain people with developed disease, it's going to be, and particularly where they struggle with implementation, they struggle with, you know, a whole bunch of things.

  It's not that it's something, it, it, I don't see it personally. I, and I, and I have the same view about every aspect of medicalization, right? There is a, a time and a [00:32:00] place for certain things and you know, with GLP ones there is definitely a, a. A time and a place where that might be useful, but it does not replace, and I think that this is the important takeaway message.

  It does not replace people having to take ownership and responsibility for their day-to-day actions, their behaviors, their habits, you know, and it's an aid for sure. It's an aide. For some people, it actually is going to make the entire difference between them dropping enough weight in a sustainable way that it enables them to be able to have a healthy pregnancy.

  Make the mistake about it, you know, being overweight, insulin resistance and diabetes, all of those metabolic health, uh, conditions. Drastically negatively impact egg and sperm quality and, um, uterine and [00:33:00] receptivity, and therefore the ability to actually carry a healthy pregnancy to term. Now, there's also no evidence suggesting that it's entirely safe, and you're absolutely right that there are going, there is no free lunch here, right?

  So it's not something that is going to be a situation where. You can take it with no repercussions. There's always gonna be repercussions. There are, there are, there are kind of, you know, cost effectiveness and effectiveness analysis and, and pros and cons that you have to put into consideration when we, you are making a decision to use or not use certain treatments.

  So, you know, the thing about it is that. If somebody is in a situation where they would have to choose between bariatric surgery or GLP ones, I'd be going GLP ones any day of the week. Right? Like

  Yeah,

  Exactly. Because you know, with bariatric surgery like that. Stuff is permanent. You're [00:34:00] gonna have permanent nutritional deficiency issues.

  You're going to have multiple other health condition issues to deal with later down the track from something that you know is very, very permanent. Now, mind you, some people with, you know. Morbid obesity. Maybe that's some that might be the only way for them to be able to actually get their health back on track.

  And so it's not to say that there is a right or wrong approach. There is an approach that is going to actually support. The values and preferences of the patient. And I think that that's one of the really important things that we need to take into account. For some people, certain decisions, particularly in terms of their health, is going to be determined by their values and preferences.

  And taking those into consideration is the job of any clinician, right? So we, we are not going to be saying to people, oh no, this is the only way, and I mean certain clinicians do, and that's just. You [00:35:00] know, it's them. Um, I don't think that we're, we're going into an era in terms of, of healthcare where patients are highly educated, they have access to all of the same tools that clinicians have access to, and they use it, you know, they will literally, you know, sometimes I, I have seen patients in my clinic come in with.

  Detailed files of their situation, and they're not, they're lay people, right, but they have highly educated themselves on their situation and what's going on and what it is that they need, and they can ask and answer questions that some medical doctors cannot even. Understand yet, you know, so we have to be also very mindful of the fact that the more that somebody educates themselves, the better they're going to be able to advocate for themselves.

  And I think that in this [00:36:00] conversation of trying to get pregnant over 40, it's so, so important because time is finite. It is essential that you don't just keep applying the same strategy, hoping for a different resolve, but that. Understand what are the options available to me in my situation and how best to stage those things in such a way that's actually going to benefit me the patient in the best possible way.

  And if medications are a part of that, and if surgeries a part of that, and if something else needs to be brought in as a part of that strategy, then it's much better that their clinician is able to guide that process. Then the patient tries to make these decisions and, and put these things together on their own and end up in the complete wrong place that they didn't intend as a result of not having that kind of support.

  So I think that there's a lot there to, to disentangle, but there's, these [00:37:00] are all very important considerations, particularly when all the most patients over 40 are going to hear is, you're running outta time. You need to hurry up and do IVF. And it's like, well actually. I think that there's a whole lot more to it that, you know, than just continuing to apply more treatment when we don't understand why treatment is failing.

  'cause it's age is a proxy. It's a proxy for the underlying metabolic factors that are getting in the way. To the healthiest possible outcome, which is, you know, the normal outcome that we are wanting to see when it comes to fertility is you have sex, you get pregnant, you have a baby, we're done. We're no longer having this conversation.

  Anything other than that means that you may have investigated some, but there are still missing information. You need to arrive at to be able to transform results. So that's an important consideration for patients in this kind of situation that I, I have to say, [00:38:00] it's one of the most important things in my clinic is understanding why that's, you know, my fertile method that we've been using for the last 24 years.

  The f infertile is, is not what you think it's actually fact finding. You know, it's, that's the first step. So it's really important.

  Yeah, for sure. And it, it's true. I agree with you. You, you first start with what you can do. Rather than going from zero to a hundred and then going straight for like the hardest medication, which I find happens a lot. And so this is

  Oh gosh.

  very, it's very important. And from a Chinese medicine perspective, we look at the spleen and stomach and we want the digestive system to be optimal.

  You don't wanna rush to do something too strong. You need to take the steps, the proper steps. You can't jump from like, um, no foundation to like the third floor or whatever, you know?

  Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and this is the other thing too, is that the escalation of what's required, there is a timing for all of [00:39:00] that, right? And so understanding where someone is to where they need to be, but understanding what are the steps that they need to get there is critically important.

  Otherwise, we end up with more of the same. And you know, more of the same usually means no baby. And that obviously is not the outcome that patients are looking for.

  So now I, I definitely wanna get to this, um, topic because it's exciting, new and exciting news that you've had, which is that you're currently undergoing or, or working on a clinical trial. And I'd love for you to, you're gonna explain it much better than me, so.

  Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, look, you know, I have been going on this kind of scientific joy ride for the last seven years. Um, finally I've graduated from my master's in public health at Harvard, and that was where we did our first study of my patient results. You know, like we had a, a study of. 544 patients going through our treatment and figured out that the live birth rate is [00:40:00] 78.8% and lots of other really interesting things out of that.

  And that weed my appetite for understanding more about, you know, how to really answer scientific questions that are gonna benefit my patients. And so I went into the Doctor of Public Health program at Harvard and I'm gradu about to graduate. Yay

  Yay. That's

  Cannot. Yeah, so May next year is, is my deadline. Um, but as a result, you know, part of what I wanted to really, um, skill up on was running clinical trials.

  And so I'm running a clinical trial on testing and intervention, uh, specifically. Focused on how it impacts infertility related trauma, grief and distress. So it's, it's basically a writing intervention where people have a prompt that is the guided prompts. Um, we have two groups. Everybody gets the intervention at the end of the [00:41:00] study, but, um, ultimately looking at, you know, there's a lot of evidence that supports.

  In the way that we obviously are, are testing. And the impact in chronic diseases on the emotional component of how people experience their situation. Certainly we know that infertility is a trauma inducing event, right? And so figuring out ways, and unfortunately, even though that is the case, you know, a lot of times people don't.

  Get given any kind of emotional support through very difficult, challenging fertility journeys. And so I wanted to really look at something that I have been using with my patients for many years and test it in a way that, you know, I already knew that there was some benefit because otherwise I wouldn't have gone into, you know, doing this particular trial.

  But, um, we really are looking at, you know, what is the effect for people who really do self-report [00:42:00] with, you know, a high level of distress on their fertility journey. How can we, you know, is there a way to actually help them to, to reduce that, um, that level of the stress and that level of, of trauma reaction and the, the feelings of grief through the journey.

  And, uh, and if so. Is that a sustainable effect? So that's really, these are the questions that this study, uh, aiming to answer. It's called the Inspire Study. Uh, and people can go to Inspire Study online. So, um, that, I'm sure you will put that in the show notes, but. Via study online, we're still recruiting.

  We need 220 females for this study. And the reason that we actually chose females only for this particular study is because we wanted to not have to disentangle the effect that could be differential between men and women. But you know, I have a hunch that [00:43:00] the same effect that we would experience in, in terms of improvements in women would be.

  Derived in men as well. And I think that it's even a, a, a more important study to be honest, because often if women don't get the support, the emotional support men get it even less. Right? And so, you know, that might be a future study that we'll be recruiting for at sometime down the track, but for now, females over 18 who might be interested in addressing some of their emotional, you know, challenges through the fertility journey.

  Can go to Inspire study.online and get more information.

  That's so exciting and I'm very curious to see your findings. Um, which I know it takes time. Everything takes time. It's like really something that you have to follow and, um, but I will be sharing this in the. Of show notes and I'll be also sharing it with my own patients.

  Amazing.

  exciting thing.

  And anything that you can do really to give tools to people going through the fertility journey, it could be [00:44:00] so confusing for so many people. And, uh, it, it really is. We we're talking about this before in the, like before the show, is that. A lot of this, and you had mentioned that, uh, people don't even realize that they need it. They don't even think about it because anything that really comes down to mindset or emotions can feel very abstract. And when you're already in that state of mind, it's really hard to see how to get out of that. So having the tools or something that makes it a little bit more digestible or manageable in any way can help so many people.

  Tremendously.

  Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, it's, it's interesting 'cause my patient this morning was saying this to me. She literally was like, you know, and she had gone through 12, imagine 12 failed IVF cycles and four miscarriages.

  terrible.

  And, uh, and she said, she said, I didn't realize until I got into your program, I didn't realize how much I was [00:45:00] holding in terms of trauma and in terms of, you know, how much I needed emotional support.

  And it's a, it's an experience that, you know, my doctoral chair, the, the chair of my doctoral, uh, committee is um, is an obstetrician gynecologist. She's actually the primary investigator of the Apple Women's Health Study and. An obstetrician gynecologist, and it's really interesting because we were talking about, you know, this particular study and I, and obviously being part of her lab, I was presenting it to the team and one of the big pieces of conversation about it was the fact that so much of the journey that people go through in terms of infertility is emotionally unsupported, you know?

  She's extremely excited. 'cause you know, she works at the MG MDH, um, the, the Massachusetts General Hospital here in Boston and she is really excited to be able to, depending on the results, to be able to give [00:46:00] this as a tool for her patients and, and the patients in the, in the hospital, you know, going through IVF to be able to utilize 'cause it's so easy, so easy to apply tool.

  It's very effective and so, yeah, it'll be interesting to see results. I'm very excited as well.

  Yeah. Well I'm very excited and I definitely wanna be following up on you and I'll be checking it out, um, as it goes. So if you ever have any updates,

  Absolutely we could actually do a podcast, um, a show on taking people through the intervention. So

  Oh, that would be awesome. Amazing. Yeah, that would be really cool.

  let's do it.

  yeah, so great. So if anybody wants to check it out, I will have that in the episode notes. um, of course, as always, I really enjoy talking to you. I feel like I learned so much. You have such a great perspective that really has like a foot in both worlds, which I find to be [00:47:00] tremendously impactful. not just having one perspective, you know, really understanding the science and kind of like looking through and working through the data and then also having a holistic perspective on the different modalities can

  Thank. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for helping share the word. I think it's such an important thing that we do this, so thank you.

  Yeah. Thank you so much Gabriela.

Ep 369 The Fertility Red Flag Hiding in Your Mouth

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by biological dentist and integrative health coach Dr. Toni Engram (@drtoniengram) to uncover one of the most overlooked foundations of reproductive health: your mouth.

Most people do not realize that oral health is deeply connected to inflammation, autoimmune conditions, and fertility challenges. In this eye opening conversation, Dr. Toni explains how hidden infections, gum disease, mercury fillings, and even everyday products like fluoride can quietly impact hormones, gut health, thyroid function, and pregnancy outcomes.

We dive into the science behind biological dentistry, the truth about fluoride, safer approaches to dental procedures, how the oral microbiome affects your fertility, and why preconception dentistry is one of the most powerful yet underutilized steps for preparing the body for pregnancy.

If you have been working on your fertility, supporting your gut, addressing autoimmune conditions, or simply trying to reduce inflammation and support your hormones, this episode is a must listen. Your mouth may be the missing piece.

Key Takeaways: 

• Oral health is directly connected to inflammation, gut health, and autoimmune conditions.

• Mercury fillings and hidden infections can trigger systemic inflammation and impact fertility.

• Biological dentistry uses safer materials and focuses on root cause healing.

• Fluoride carries risks including thyroid disruption and neurotoxicity.

• Xylitol, hydroxyapatite, and simple daily habits can safely support remineralization and overall oral health.

Links and resources:

Visit Dr. Toni’s Website:
http://flourish.dental

Follow her on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drtoniengram/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/flourishdentalboutique/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourholisticdentist
X: https://x.com/DentalFlourish
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@flourishdentalboutique
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-toni-engram-11081731/

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Toni.

  Toni: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

  Michelle: Me too. So I always like to start with an origin story, and I'd love for you to share, um, how you got into your work, but very customized, um, dentistry.

  Toni: Yeah. Not your traditional dentist, that's for sure. Um, the, how I got into dentistry is a, it's a much more boring story.

  Toni: So we'll get

  to the interesting

  Michelle: I just wanted, I just wanted to help people and, and dentistry seemed like a, a more family friendly version of healthcare than going to med school. So that's how I became a dentist.

  And man, I just wanted to be a normal dentist, that's all. Um, wanted to have a normal practice in a normal town. But thankfully God had other plans for me, and it was around 2011. I had a toddler at home. I was working [00:01:00] full-time as an associate dentist at another practice. I was in the process of opening my first practice from scratch, you know, just me solo by myself doing all the construction and that sort of thing.

  And I just got super, super sick. Um, I wasn't eating well, obviously. I wasn't sleeping well. I was doing all the, the normal type A things that one does, uh, which worked for me when I, when I was younger, but then all of a sudden just did not, and I had all kinds of, you know, unfortunate digestive issues that doctors kind of blew off for a while.

  And, uh, just told me it was IBS for the longest time. And finally, uh, my symptoms got so bad that. That even they couldn't ignore them or push them aside anymore. And so I was diagnosed with Crohn's colitis, which is just an autoimmune condition that affects the gut and was given, you know, just the [00:02:00] very typical.

  Western Medicine Answer was, here's your list of medications that you're gonna need to take and you're gonna need to be on these for forever. Uh, or until they stop working. Uh, and oh yeah, by the way, um, there's a good chance that you're gonna need surgery at some point to remove all or part of your colon.

  Toni: I've heard that before. That's so crazy.

  Michelle: Uh, and I chi, you know, there were, I had no holistic biological background. That was not in my background at all. I had a healthcare background. My family is in western medicine. Like that's how I grew up. Um, and so, but I knew that that just was not at the. That couldn't be true. I was too busy for all that.

  Toni: Yeah.

  Michelle: I had too much to do. Um, so, and I even asked the question. I was like, well, what do I do to actually get, well, how do I heal this and get rid of this? What do I need to eat differently or do differently? And the gastroenterologist looked at me, um, and [00:03:00] this digestive illness that I had that was impacting my gut, he literally looked at me and said, Toni, your diet has nothing to do with this.

  Toni: Wow.

  Michelle: Yeah,

  Toni: says a lot about just

  Michelle: and that

  Toni: current affairs. Yeah.

  Michelle: seriously, um, so I thought that that was. Quite frankly. And, um, I took the medications 'cause I was, like I said, I was sick. Um, and so I did, I did steroids, I did the medications, the, the whole shebang. 'cause I needed to stop the, stop the process. And I was scared not to do what they said.

  So took the medications. Thankfully went into remission really quickly on the medications. Um, but during that time I started going down all the rabbit holes online, like, how do I actually get, well, how do I heal my gut? And that was where the magic happened because, uh, I didn't have any guidance. I [00:04:00] didn't know about functional medicine at the time, but as I was learning how to actually heal myself and get well, I realized.

  Man, Crohn's disease, it's all about inflammation and a dysbiosis in the gut. What do I treat every day? I help people with tooth decay and gum disease, which is all about inflammation and a dysbiosis in the very first part of your gut, which is your mouth. So I knew that if I could figure out how to get well myself.

  That I had an obligation to figure out the same thing for my patients too, and to be able to help them get well, because I gotta tell you, the normal like drill and fill model of dentistry was frustrating. It was, it burned me out because people weren't getting well. Um, and so once I started. Really seeing this root cause dentistry, you know, how can we actually [00:05:00] heal patients and help them get well?

  Not only did I start feeling better, but my patients started getting better and, and we're learning every day, um, how to get to these root cause issues to really achieve true healing that starts in the mouth, but really is a, a whole body phenomenon.

  Toni: It really is, and it was, uh, fascinating for me to learn once I started specializing in fertility, just how important it is for fertility health. I mean.

  And it is, I mean, it's important for a lot of things, but that's kind of like, um, I guess fertility health is sort of the end result of, you know, what can co what can happen if you're taking care of in, you know, inflammation.

  And there's so many, the gut microbiome, like there's so many aspects that impact it, but it's almost secondary to that.

  And talk to me about, um. What is it, how, how do you like, take [00:06:00] dentistry and make it root cause? And I'm assuming that that was how you became a biological dentist. And for people who have never heard of that, can you walk us through like what that means?

  Um, because I think that it's, it's a new concept and it doesn't seem like it's mainstream, so

  it might be like new for people to hear.

  Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. And it, so a lot of people use the term holistic dentistry. We use the term biological dentistry. It's really just a more holistic, it's like the functional medicine. Version of dentistry. So what that means in real life is we are trying to minimize toxins that we use. So we're not using any of those old silver fillings that are half mercury.

  Um, I'm not using any fluoride in the practice. We can talk about that later because fluoride is a pretty potent toxin. Um, we are eliminating all of those things in the practice [00:07:00] and. Focusing first on prevention. You know, if we can focus on diet and actually having a healthy terrain, that's what we wanna do.

  We wanna help you avoid the, the drills and the, and the scalpels in my chair if we, if we can, if at all possible. Uh, but when we do need to intervene, we wanna do so strategically. We wanna do so gently and safely for the body in a way that promotes healing rather than adding another toxic burden to the body.

  So we're very intentional with our materials, very intentional with, with what we use. Um, we do a lot of nutrition coaching. We have a, a full accelerator program where we work on resetting the, the oral microbiome to get it back to a healthy state. And again, really just testing and getting to the root cause of tooth decay and gum [00:08:00] disease and other oral diseases, and then making sure that nothing in the mouth is impairing the rest of your health.

  Including fertility, uh, making sure that nothing going on in your mouth. So, you know, we're looking for hidden infections. We're looking at those old root canals, we're looking at heavy metals, all of those things to make sure that the human terrain, the biological terrain of your body is. Well prepared for all levels of health.

  Um, and that's why I'm so excited to talk to your audience because fertility is such like, we just need this foundation, this preconception foundation so that you can have healthy pregnancies when you want to.

  Toni: I think this topic is like so important. I can't even underscore how important it is because. That is, uh, you said something that was really key is that digestion [00:09:00] starts in the mouth.

  And I think that a lot of people think about like gut. They, they think about it straight to the gut. Yes, it happens there too, but it starts in the mouth.

  And I talk often about like chewing, even chewing and, you know, but this kind of sounds like conscious dentistry. It's like becoming conscious that, and I think that that's really key is, is when any kind of medicine or a medical form. Not only treats what it treats but then looks at the neighboring or, um, affecting aspects that are surrounding whatever it is, and not seeing it as an island because our bodies just don't work that way.

  We're not islands and we don't have compartments that are separate from the rest of the body.

  So I really, really. Love that you combine it and you really look at like everything from diet. And then one of the ways that, like, one of the reasons I've heard of biological dentistry is because my husband [00:10:00] has a mercury filling that's getting a little loose.

  And I was afraid because I know that that could be very dangerous in a regular dentistry setting be if you don't know how to remove it. And there there's a certain way to remove it. And I know that with biological dentistry there's a very, like, typically they'll know how to remove mercury in a safe way.

  Am I correct?

  Michelle: You are absolutely correct and if I, you know, I have this discussion all the time with people sometimes, sometimes people just can't find a biological dentist and they want to, and they're like, oh, well, can I just go to my regular dentist? So it. If you do nothing else at a biological dentist, I would say.

  100% do not have your amalgam fillings removed at a traditional standard dentist only have your amalgam fillings removed with someone who knows the SMART protocol. And SMART just stands for safe mercury [00:11:00] amalgam removal technique

  because you are absolutely 100% right. So those fillings, the, the old silver fillings, they are half mercury and half.

  Other stuff, other metals, um, when they are in the mouth, they, they used to, they taught us in school that the mercury was bound out, bound up inside the filling, and it stayed and it didn't leach or go anywhere. But what we know now is that anytime you apply heat or friction to one of those fillings, you'll get a tiny offgassing of mercury vapor every time.

  So anytime you chew or grind your teeth at night. Or a drink, hot coffee, you're going to have a tiny little bit of mercury exposure,

  which for, for. Many people for a long period of time was fine because our toxic buckets weren't quite so full as they are normally now. Um, we're seeing more and more people are sensitive to these things.

  Our toxic buckets are full. [00:12:00] We just don't have the capacity to handle this as much as we did in the past. Um, so you can imagine if heat and friction releases mercury vapor into the body. And Mercury likes to get stored in the brain, in organs, in fatty tissue. Uh, it doesn't just, it's not just all processed.

  It likes to stay and just hang around. So when one of those fillings needs to be replaced, your dentist is going to take a high speed drill at 800,000 RPMs. What do you think is going to happen in terms of the friction and the heat that's generated from the procedure itself? It is massive. And we've seen the dentist who have done testing on this have seen that it covers the mercury vapor can be spread throughout the entire room.

  So the patient is getting a very large exposure because the, all the pink stuff in your mouth is very, very absorbent. So you're gonna get a huge exposure, [00:13:00] but also the dentist and the assistant is going to get a large exposure. So then it become like, to me it's. Not just a patient issue, it's also an ethical employer issue.

  It like, how are we going to expose our team, our assistants, to mercury vapor, who are typically females in their childbearing years, who are going to be the most sensitive to that toxic exposure? So. For all of those reasons, the, the I-A-O-M-T, which is a group of biological dentists, developed these protocols to minimize that mercury exposure during the procedure itself.

  And so these protocols have different ways of, multiple ways of isolating the tooth. Filtering the air in the room, uh, functioning all of the, the vapor. We use special mercury vapor, um, absorbance and vacuums in the room. [00:14:00] Um, making sure that the patient and that the team is covered head to toe. It. We have layers and layers of protection that we use when we're taking these fillings out.

  And then we're, you know, working with. Naturopaths and functional medicine doctors to make sure that the patient's supported on the detox side of things as well, both before and after the procedure. So I think it's highly important that if you need an amalgam filling, replaced, that you do so with a biological dentist or someone who is smart, certified and knows what those protocols are.

  Toni: Yes. Super important and of course. You don't want mercury when you're trying to conceive. You want it like out of your body as quick as possible. So I think that that's just really important. And then talk to the audience about autoimmune and how your, your dental health can impact autoimmunity and inflammation really systemically.

  Michelle: It's [00:15:00] such a huge issue because autoimmunity is, is. At its core, it's inflammatory. And so most of the things that happen in your mouth are inflammatory thing, like that's where things go wrong. It's with the inflammatory response. And so we see it well established in the scientific literature now that any kind of oral health issue, like an increase in gum disease, so gum bleeding, um, gingivitis.

  All of that is correlated with higher rates of autoimmune conditions of all kinds. So that's Crohn's disease, that's rheumatoid arthritis, that's Hashimoto's, that's all of it. Um, and we also notice that if you are ha, if you already have an autoimmune condition, when you have a flare up, sometimes that will show up in your mouth.

  Often it will show up in your mouth. And so these are conversations that. We need to [00:16:00] be having as a, a healthcare team, because if I see something, if I've got a patient who I know has an autoimmune diagnosis of some kind, if I see an uptick in their bleeding, that's the first question I'm asking is, how's your rheumatoid arthritis?

  How are you doing lately? Are you, are you having a flare? If not, then you might be about to have a flare so that they can. Take notice, take action. Make sure that they're doing what they need to do to take care of themselves from a whole body perspective.

  Toni: And if they have an active infection, um, I've seen, you know, with my patients, one, um, one patient had an active infection because there was, um, basically a cavitation

  and um, an old surgery of, uh, her wisdom teeth removed and, and,

  she had autoimmune conditions. And then she resolved that and she almost immediately felt better overall.

  Michelle: Isn't that fascinating? [00:17:00] Yeah, it makes such a huge difference. Such a huge difference. And you're right, that's an important point too. Um, you know that the easiest inflammatory thing in the mouth to see is gum disease. Um, but it's not just that there are infections that can be hiding around root canals, infections that can be hiding within the jawbone from where those wisdom teeth or any tooth has been removed.

  Uh, if the bone just didn't heal properly in that site. Then the bone can literally become necrotic and then it creates an inflammatory response elsewhere in the

  body. Because also, I mean, you would think, you know, the body's so, uh, focused on fighting this, so it's constantly like draining the body's immunity or energy.

  Toni: And it can cause things to go haywire just 'cause it really does, uh, everything impacts everything in the

  Michelle: Yes, for sense. Um, and then as far as fluoride, uh, it is a topic [00:18:00] that I think people really should know about. Uh, it's important to know that it is a neurotoxin. So I'd like for you to explain it from your expertise. Like why, um, like how it impacts the body and why, uh, like, why dentists use it. And why it's, um, wise to avoid it now that we know what we know.

  Right now that we, now that we know better, it's time for us to do better. Um. So fluoride. Fluoride is still an effective tool against tooth decay, so it gets incorporated into the tooth enamel so that the crystalline structure of the enamel is harder with fluoride incorporated than without. Um, I. Many biological dentists, many of my peers feel like even that, that hardness is a little misleading and not necessarily an indication of a healthier tooth.

  Um, but [00:19:00] that, that is nuanced and can be debated. Um, it does, it lowers the risk of cavities, but we really had. An over appreciation of the benefits of fluoride over the years. 'cause what we know now when we look back is yes, when fluoride first start started being added to the, to toothpaste and added to water, um, we did see a de decrease in the amount of tooth decay in the country. But then when you go back and you look at countries that did not fluoridate their water, you see the same decrease. So we can't necessarily give all the credit to fluoride in the water. Um, and what we also know is that fluoride is, it's more risky than we once thought. So it will compete with iodine in the thyroid.

  So there's a, a thyroid risk to that. Um, most of my functional [00:20:00] medicine practitioners that refer, refer to me, that's one of the first thing that they want their patients off of. Is there fluoride, toothpaste, um, and fluoride? Anything in the water. 'cause with, when it's in the water, you can't really control the dose or how much you're

  getting. Um, so we know it's not great for the thyroid. It's not great for the pineal gland. There's evidence that it can calcify

  the pineal gland, which is we will gland right up here. Um, and the scariest one to me is the impact on our kids. So, and this is.

  Toni: The IQ

  Michelle: This is not just infant exposure, this is maternal exposure.

  Also, they are finding more and more evidence that increasing exposure to fluoride is correlated with a decrease IQ in our kids, which is terrifying to me.

  Um, and so upsetting because all along it. Their [00:21:00] justification for adding fluoride to the water, it goes against everything that they taught us in school.

  So we were taught that, that if you give something to someone to treat an illness, that that is a medication. So fluoride is added to the water to treat cavities. So it is a medication. Don't let them tell you otherwise. It is a medication. Um. I was also taught that in order to give someone a medication, you have to have proper informed consent.

  No one has the ability to consent to water fluoridation. It's in your water. It's everywhere. So it, I, I have major ethical problems with water fluoridation. Um, and especially knowing that you cannot control the dose when it's in the water. So, 70-year-old grandpa that's drinking one glass of water a day, his daily dose of fluoride is going to be [00:22:00] vastly different than an infant who is drinking formula out of a bottle.

  And that's their, their complete diet is formula made with tap water that's fluoridated. Dose is hugely different. So I have major, major ethical issues with water fluoridation and so fluoride in, in general, uh, is off of my recommended list. We don't need it. I have other tools that I can use and other things that I can.

  Coach you on and point you towards where you don't have to use fluoride to prevent cavities. We can do it other ways. Um, and so I will be very, very glad if the, the current health and human services, uh, division is able to end that countrywide. Right now it's just local government by local government.

  Local government decision, but it would, it would be just amazing if we could end that medical treatment as a whole.

  Toni: [00:23:00] Yeah, because it's not like, um. People can't go out and buy flu, uh, fluoridated toothpaste

  if they wanted to, um, on their own free will. So,

  Michelle: Yes. With informed consent, you know, with guidance from their personal dentist.

  Toni: Yeah. And then as far as re mineralization, I know that there's, um, they do have, like you can see sometimes you'll find a toothpaste that have another, I forget what it's called.

  It's like a heart's pronounced.

  Name, um, of

  Michelle: calcium hydroxy, What is it?

  calcium hydroxy appetite.

  Toni: So,

  but then I was reading about that and because it's like nano, um, that can have, uh, issues too. So I, I have no idea. Um, so what are other ways that people can remineralize if they have very, like, clear, you know, a little bit more like, um, I don't wanna say see through, but like they can see that their teeth are not like [00:24:00] super solid.

  Michelle: Yeah, it's, and I will tell you it's there, there's some sort of weird information war going on where what's, what's healthy is not healthy. What's toxic is not toxic. It, it's very strange and confusing. So what I will tell you is there are two ingredients that are the most effective. Uh, aside from fluoride at remineralizing teeth and those two ingredients are calcium, hydroxyapatite, and xylitol, they have a great track record of effectiveness that rivals fluoride in terms of effectiveness

  and what I you said,

  And xylitol?

  Toni: that, that's in gum. I have xylitol

  gum.

  Michelle: Yes. Yeah. It's in a lot of the more natural toothpaste too. Um. Great data on it. And for both of those ingredients, they [00:25:00] have now been studied for decades and they have decades of good safety records, which is more than we can say for fluoride. So in terms of safety and effectiveness, those two ingredients are

  Toni: They could both help with the Remi Remineralization. So

  probably the easiest way is either having, um, something with xylitol, you know, toothpaste or, or gum.

  Just chewing gum with that would help.

  Michelle: Absolutely. So xylitol is cool. It works in two different ways, so it immediately will increase the pH of your saliva so you can stop that acid attack of whatever you just ate or drank. Um, but over time. The bacteria that cause cavities will ingest it because it's close enough in structure to sugar.

  It's a sugar alcohol from plants. Uh, they'll ingest it, but they can't metabolize it. So those bacteria will start to slip [00:26:00] off the teeth and you'll get this really nice gentle shift in the microbiome over time. Um, so it's fantastic. It's most effective when you use it five times a day. Which seems like a lot, but that's not hard at all because most of them run, they run out of, um, flavor in two seconds, so, you know, it's very easy to want another one.

  Right. That's so true. That is so true. Uh, so usually what I'll do is I'll have my patients do a remineralizing toothpaste morning and night. And so that'll have hydroxyapatite and xylitol typically. Um, and then pick whatever their favorite xylitol product is, whether it's a spray or candy or mints. And I'll have them do that after meals.

  Um, and that really gives us the most bang for the buck that's so easy

  to do. Um, and I, I love that you brought up there is controversy around hydroxyapatite as an ingredient. Um, I [00:27:00] love, love, love that we can have the discussion because I think the discussion is what's often been missing in the fluoride con conversation.

  Uh, we're allowed to discuss it seemed like. Um. So it's a valid discussion to have. And some of the worry is around the smaller particle, the smaller nanoparticle, hydroxy appetite and certain shapes of these nanoparticles. 'cause sometimes they were like needle shaped, a little pointier. So the concern was can these cross the blood brain barrier?

  Can they, there are nanoparticles, so where else can they go besides the teeth? And what we know based on what's actually. Quite a lot of research right now. Um, and, and this has been very well studied by the authorities in the European Union who tend to be a little stricter on the products that they will, um, that they will let the public have access to and what they won't.

  So the European [00:28:00] Union, European Union, um, the work that they did, the research that they did. Found, and this is very, very recent, um, they, where they originally had co concerns with the needle shaped nanoparticles, they were able to find that if it was a nanoparticle that was spherical or cylindrical or rod shaped, that these particles were just fine.

  They, they dissolved in the digestive system really quickly if they were swallowed. They, if they were absorbed into the bloodstream, it was very little and it dissociated into its subsequent particles very easily. Um. It passed very easily. There was nothing significant crossing the blood brain barrier.

  So all of their research found that it, it is really very safe. Um, so is there as much research on hydroxy appetite as fluoride? [00:29:00] No, not quite as much. But also I would say that the, the tilt of the fluoride research was always to prove fluoride is effective. It was. Only more recently focused on the safety of fluoride, whereas Hydroxyapatite has, for one, it's been around for a long time, even in nano form.

  It's been used overseas for 40 years now. Um, and it has always been, all of the research has been focused on safety and effectiveness, so I feel like it, we're having more of these important conversations, and so far it's doing very, very well. And I'm much more comfortable with the safety profile of Hydroxyapatite than I am with fluoride.

  Toni: Got it. And so does it only come in nano uh, form or does it have other ones? And which one do you recommend or does it make a difference?

  Michelle: It, that's a good question too, because it, um, the [00:30:00] micro form is going to be a larger particle than the nano form, so you can get microparticle hydroxyapatite. Usually if it's micro hydroxyapatite, they're just not going to say. They'll just say calcium hydroxyapatite on the ingredient list. Um, if it's nano, they'll often say it, uh, or it'll be somewhere on their website or in their marketing materials that it's a nanoparticle.

  So you'll, you're, you can usually

  tell, um, the micro particle, those larger particles will still be effective at remineralizing, but not as much. The nanoparticle absorbs into the tooth and is able to be incorporated into the tooth structure more easily because it's smaller.

  Toni: Um, I remember getting a powder,

  uh, where you put, basically you wet your toothbrush, you put it in the powder, and then you brush your teeth.

  And that as a remi, mineral mineralization,

  because I don't have fluoride in my toothpaste,[00:31:00]

  so I wanted to have something else. Um, is that something that you recommend, like something like that?

  Words of

  powder or, yeah.

  Michelle: Those are great. The only thing that I would be careful of is, um, like when you're using just straight powders. 'cause I've got a lot of patients who have lots of allergies and chemical sensitivities. So if you're using just a straight powder that's like straight baking soda or something, then I would just say be careful with the, the grittiness used frequently.

  Um, so sometimes. If it's just a plain, single ingredient powder, sometimes it can be a little too abrasive for the enamel. But if you're using like a specific tooth powder, it's usually going to be, um, bentonite clay or activated charcoal. And it's a lot of times going to have some kind of calcium product, whether it's hydroxyapatite or calcium carbonate.

  And those are typically fine. Typically the powders are, um. Are [00:32:00] finer and are less gritty, so totally fine. Um, but if you see any kind of irritation at all, then you might wanna back up just a little bit and do it, you know, maybe three times a week alternate to where you're not being just too aggressive with the gum tissue and with the enamel,

  Toni: Or do toothpaste.

  Michelle: or do Yeah. Um, awesome. And then root canals, you had talked about that. Um.

  Mm-hmm.

  Toni: As it impacts, I guess, inflammation.

  Um, is it kind of similar to what we talked about or is there anything else that people should be aware of?

  Michelle: I mean, they are, root canals are their own special beast because it is, it's so great if you are in pain and hurting a root canal is such a great way to keep a tooth and not feel like you wanna punch somebody's eye out for for a while. If you've ever had a toothache, it can be [00:33:00] horrible. Um, it can send people to the emergency room and does frequently all the time.

  So while it can save the structure of the tooth and often the function of the tooth, it does come with its downsides. And so one of the downside of removing the nerve of the tooth is that you also remove the blood supply. And when you remove the blood supply, then the whole microbiome in the area changes.

  In and around

  the tooth. So instead of the, the normal bacteria that's automatically going to be there without blood to provide oxygen, now it's just the creepy crawly bacteria. The ones who don't like, like oxygen that are going to be there hanging out. And again, kind of like. With mercury, with our toxic bucket, like for, for many people it's just fine and they don't notice any ill effects from that at all.

  But it is, it does create this [00:34:00] mild inflammatory response. It could be an immune system trigger for some people and for some people it can, it can be the thing that might trigger other symptoms elsewhere in the body. Um. Not saying that it's the direct cause or the one and only cause or anything like that, but it can be a trigger just like anything else.

  That's a toxic exposure. So it's important to know that it will create a stress on the body. It is adding to that toxic bucket, not taking away. Um, and so I think it's something that. We should embark on as a, as a patient, it's something that we should embark on carefully and knowing all of our options, and it's something that we can try to avoid if possible.

  Um, and know that there are other options. It, it's just that sometimes those options aren't fun. When it comes down to it. Sometimes it really is a choice between. Doing a root [00:35:00] canal or losing a tooth and then deciding, you know, whether you wanna just have a missing tooth or have an implant or something like that.

  So it's not an easy discussion that we have, but it's one that unfortunately we have to have with patients every day.

  Toni: And biological dentists, they pretty much do the same things.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Toni: It's just, um, in a different way. So like if

  somebody needed, um, a bridge or, you know, just other dental work, you guys

  offer that. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. Yeah. We still do traditional dental procedures, but there's that where we know it's going to. Be a burden on the body. We try to do less of them. Um, and root canals is one of those things where you probably will see some difference among different biological dentists, um, because it is a specialized procedure.

  Michelle: So my philosophy in my office is that if I'm, first, I'm going to give you proper informed consent. [00:36:00] So I'm going to give you the pros, the cons, tell you all your different options, tell you what what's likely to happen if you do nothing at all. Um, and then if you decide that you want to have a root canal done, again, it's your decision, it's not mine.

  Um, then I want that to be the best root canal possible, and that means it's done. With a microscope with, you know, more than just normal, general dentist equipment. It's done with a microscope and it's done in the hands of a specialist and not in the hands of me, your general dentist. So I have one group of endodontists and in my, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

  That, um, that uses ozone and is more holistically minded. And so I have one office that I will refer my patients to when they choose to have root canals and they do a fantastic job.

  Toni: And then my other question actually is, um, what are your thoughts [00:37:00] on, uh, x-rays? Because I know that you guys are aware a lot more than, you know, the mainstream.

  Uh, And I would imagine that would like this pushed back a lot. Yes. to me about that. The benefits, uh, you know, it's kind of, it's always benefit versus risk.

  Michelle: Um, yes, it is always benefit versus rescuer. Absolutely. Right. Um, so we still, uh, for one, there's the legal issue is I am still a dentist with a license, and so I still have to practice according to the standard of care. And so if I saw you without. The, you know, a minimal appropriate amount of x-rays, then I wouldn't be doing my job and my license would literally be at risk.

  Um. So that is, that is one part of the conversation, but also just the ethical, and I wanna take care of my patients question is I really can't see a lot of these issues [00:38:00] without some kind of x-rays. So we, we talk through different options on how can we minimize it, how can we make it work to where it's not so many, um, we can have these conversations, but we, but it has to be a conversation.

  I can't. Not take any x-rays ever, or I, I wouldn't be doing my job and I would be risking my license. And as much as I love you, I need to keep my license so I can keep helping you. Um, so when patients need x-rays, especially if there are are other health concerns or they're worried about the radiation exposure, then we go through, um, different things that you can do to mitigate the exposure to radiation.

  So making sure that you stay hydrated is first and foremost, that's most important. Um, antioxidants are your friend because radiation is oxidizing to the body. Um, and so we want to have antioxidants that [00:39:00] we then have to support the body afterwards. So that means, you know, if we're talking. Minimalist then eating lots of brightly colored fruits and vegetables is a great way to go.

  If you want to supplement. Then we carry some supplements in the office, and those, again are, are really good antioxidants. So liposomal vitamin C, um, glutathione and, uh, we use a, a form of vitamin E, a delta fraction. Tocotrienols is an antioxidant that we keep in the office. And then when we can get it,

  it's a little harder to, for fertility too,

  so there you go.

  Yes. We gotta protect ourselves from the free radical damage and, uh, and sometimes we can find homeopathics and sometimes we can't. But, uh, but homeopathics are another option too. It's the, the kind that was most readily available is a little harder to find now. So we have to, we don't always have it in stock ourselves.

  Toni: Yeah. [00:40:00] Interesting. And then, um, what are just some tips that you can give people? Like if they're listening, what are some things that people should really consider? Either on a daily basis on taking care of their teeth, flossing, anything that you can kind of give also one, one other thing is, uh, I know that certain flosses, the actual or the picks they have like, um, a type of plastic that's not great,

  you know, so there's all kinds of things I guess you can talk about, but what comes

  Michelle: If you can, if you can find a, a more natural fiber floss, then that is ideal. Um. If you can avoid the, the ones that are like Teflon coated, then that would be ideal. Some of the, the floss sticks are actually coated in fluoride, believe it or not. Um, so if you are wanting to avoid fluoride, just know that you gotta look at packaging.

  'cause sometimes even your floss has fluoride in it, stuff is everywhere. Um. [00:41:00] So, so yes, getting something to clean in between your teeth is crucial. More than just brushing. You've gotta have something in between your teeth. Um, if it's, if you just know, if you just know yourself and you know that flossing is not gonna happen, then then get a water pick.

  A water pick will change your

  Toni: Are there ones you recommend? Because brands like, um, 'cause I've looked into them and my daughter's very resistant to the one that I picked. She's like, it's really annoying. It's hard to do. And so, I don't know, is there anything that you recommend?

  Michelle: How old is your daughter? She must

  Toni: She's a teenager. Um, you know, it's like you would think she's old enough to like figure it out, but you know, doesn't always happen.

  Michelle: Yeah. I have two teenage girls. I completely understand. Uh, so I like the water pick brand. Uh, but really it. Whatever you can find that is, is used is going to be my favorite, but the water pick brand works [00:42:00] really well.

  Um, let's see. Other question? Oh, I would say, you know, aside from everything else, uh, if most of your audience is concerned with fertility and making sure that we have a healthy pregnancy.

  I really, really, really want everyone to understand the concept of preconception dentistry because I really believe that preconception dentistry is so vitally important. If you are, if you are struggling with fertility, struggling to keep a pregnancy to term, then absolutely it's not too late. Please come and, and see a, a dentist, a, a biological dentist if you can, because so many of these issues that are impacting pregnancy are directly related to what's going on in your mouth.

  There are specific bacteria that we will find on a saliva test that's really easy to do. [00:43:00] There are specific strains of bacteria that are directly correlated to fertility problems, a higher rate of miscarriage, um, to low birth weight. Um. All of these things that are just so, so important. And if you can get ahead of it and if you can take care of before you're trying to get pregnant, then that is ideal.

  Um, because once you, once you do get pregnant, then it's, we still need to take care of things, but the, then we have to worry about timing of what we're doing. You know, we don't wanna do certain things in first trimester if we can't like it. It gets more complicated after you're pregnant. So preconception care.

  I just hope everyone, everyone remembers it. That if nothing else from today is a smart, certified dentist for your amalgam fillings and preconception care, uh, to make sure that your mouth is healthy and supports you having a [00:44:00] healthy pregnancy. Um, and then in terms of what you can do at home, it doesn't have to be complicated.

  So a simple clean toothpaste is. Totally fine. You know, if it's got the, the fewer ingredients the better usually. So you don't need fluoride. You don't need a ton of like weird antimicrobials. You don't need to kill germs with your toothpaste. Just something simple. Is totally fine. Use something in between your teeth and then you don't need to have a mouthwash, especially if it's like a really strong alcohol based mouthwash that's like bright blue or bright

  green. You don't need that stuff. Um, if you feel like you absolutely have to have a mouthwash, make your own, um, it could be literally just salt water that you keep in a little mason jar by your sink. That's one way to do it. Um, it could be salt water with a [00:45:00] little bit of baking soda and a little bit of powdered xylitol that you can keep by your sink, and that could be your mouthwash.

  Like it doesn't need to be fancy. Um, uh, and really just keep it simple. Like everything, go back to basics, all, all the normal things and make sure that your, that your diet, your hydration, all those things are, are on point too.

  Toni: And what are your thoughts on meme?

  Michelle: I like it.

  I like it. It can be effective. It's effective at soothing some of the inflammation and the gum tissue. So I like meme products and, and meme oil. Although I think, if I'm remembering right, it's been a while since I've used it. It doesn't taste all that No, you're right. Yeah. It's like a, it's like herbal medicine, but you know, it is, uh, it's an Ayurvedic, um,

  Toni: uh, herbs and herb and it's really beneficial. But, um,

  this is

  Michelle: Kind of like oil pulling, like the, the traditional Ayurvedic method of oil [00:46:00] pulling is with sesame oil. Um, and ew, like I, I did it once just so I could. See what all the hype is about. That's the only method of oil pulling that's been studied in the literature. Uh, so I like the idea of oil pulling with coconut oil.

  That is much more pleasant to the palette, much less disgusting in my personal opinion,

  Toni: Yes.

  Michelle: but it hasn't been studied as much. Right. so so also, and we've got cause it's like the idea is the same. It's really just getting oil to

  Toni: kind of like remove any gunk

  between your teeth,

  Michelle: Yes. And coconut oil. Oil has its own benefits. It's antifungal it, all the good stuff. So yes,

  Toni: Awesome. Well, they gotta start doing some studies on that.

  Um, but this is great. This is such a, I think it's a really important topic that. Can often be overlooked. So thank you so much for your expertise and [00:47:00] great tips and uh, I'm sure a lot of people are learning so much from this, just listening to this.

  So thank you so much Dr. Toni, and um,

  Michelle: Oh, you're so welcome. it was a great conversation.

  Thank you for having me.

Ep 368 The Unseen Intelligence Guiding Your Fertility Journey

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle offers a heartfelt dose of hope for anyone feeling discouraged, exhausted, or unsure on their fertility journey. Drawing from years of experience as a fertility acupuncturist and coach, Michelle shares powerful stories from her clinic. These stories include women who were told their chances were low, who received discouraging lab results, or who felt their bodies were failing them, yet still went on to conceive.

This episode explores the often overlooked unseen intelligence guiding your fertility. This includes the subtle signs, inner wisdom, emotional landscape, and spiritual connection that influence your body just as much as lab numbers do. Michelle also dives into the science behind belief and emotional states, referencing insights from cellular biologist Bruce Lipton and psychologist Dr. Lisa Miller to bridge the gap between spirituality and physiology.

If you are craving reassurance, perspective, and a reminder that your journey is still unfolding in ways you may not yet see, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways: 

• Your fertility journey is shaped by both the physical and the unseen. Numbers matter, but they are not the whole story.

• Lab values are only a snapshot in time. They can and often do change.

• Miraculous pregnancies can and do happen, even after discouraging diagnoses.

• Emotional and spiritual alignment deeply influence your physiology and hormonal environment.

• Belief, joy, and hope are not only comforting. They are biologically impactful.

• Your body operates through an extraordinary intelligence that we are only beginning to understand.

• Connecting with your spirit baby or inner guidance can open doors in unexpected ways.

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  # 368 The Unseen Intelligence Guiding Your Fertility Journey

  Michelle Oravitz: [00:00:00] Episode number 368 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today I am going to be bringing you a dose of hope. If you're on the fertility journey, I know that sometimes things can feel like you're really having to. Work extra hard to just hold on to some faith that something that hasn't yet happened will actually happen.

  And I know that this can be one of the hardest challenges on the fertility journey. So if you find that you're feeling this way and you need a dose of hope, stay tuned.

  [00:01:00]

  Michelle Oravitz: So today I'm gonna actually talk really right from the heart as a fertility acupuncturist and fertility coach. So I've had many different clients and patients that I'm working with in my clinic who are trying to conceive, and many of these patients and clients have been trying for sometimes over five years, sometimes over two years, and sometimes just six months, and are still feeling this same feeling.

  When is it going to happen? So I wanna talk about many different things and some of the things that I've seen and noticed as a practitioner. Some of the things that I've noticed as I was walking side by side with my patients and really going through the journey with them. I've had patients that have come to me for over a year and really felt the calling of their.

  Spare baby, like really, really would get these incredible signs and would not know why they're [00:02:00] getting these signs and nothing is happening. And eventually those same people did in fact get pregnant, and I'm happy to announce that sometimes I get these amazing pictures of their babies that are healthy.

  So. Even though I've been with them at those times that they felt it literally would be an impossible thing to happen. And some of these people have also gone to doctors and have been told that the only way they would work with them is if they got egg donor. Now, there's nothing wrong with egg donor, and many people actually do really well with finding an egg donor or an embryo donor.

  Those specific people just felt like that was not gonna be their path. So I'm gonna talk a little bit more on the esoteric levels and aspects of the fertility journey and how sometimes things can be invisible. What is working can be invisible. And then some of the things that we think is so real, like the labs and the numbers, and [00:03:00] we put so much of our faith into that can be a snapshot in time and it can also not be the end all be all.

  So today I'm gonna cover a lot of those aspects and really just give you a dose of hope because. I've seen so many cases where people were given diagnoses and also no hope by the practitioners and the team that they were working with. And now that is not to put down anybody on the team, and it's not to put down any doctors.

  This is just what they are trained to work with. And sometimes what we're trained to work with is really one aspect of reality, which is our labs, but that doesn't mean that everything should hang on those numbers. Let me explain why. I recently had a patient, which I'm just amazed by myself, and believe it or not, even though I've seen pretty [00:04:00] amazing stories happen and I've seen people defy the odds, and what I mean by that is defy what they've been told as really being their projection or their predictions of their future.

  Even though I've seen pretty miraculous and amazing stories, I still to this day get really surprised when I see some of the things that I see. And so my recent patient, and this is very, very recent, she was somebody who had a very high stress life. She had gone through a lot and she had a very demanding job.

  And sometimes that job would be overnights. And she so desperately wanted to have a baby. She really, really has been trying a year and a half, and she had gotten pregnant actually a year ago, and shortly after she miscarried. And so now she came after a year and. Was getting her period normally, and her [00:05:00] hormone levels were in a good range.

  FSH was at a good place. Her TSH, her thyroid was normal and then normal for fertility, and her A MH was normal. However, she had a couple of months before stopped getting her period and just never got it back. So she was freaking out because. She wasn't understanding why all of a sudden she stopped getting her period.

  And of course she wasn't pregnant and she went to a doctor and we had already started working together. And then afterwards she went to a doctor, a new REI, uh, really nice guy. She's really still very happy with him. But what happened was when she got her labs, her labs showed that her FSH was through the roof and her aim H really plummeted.

  So she was really worried and the doctor said, listen, you know, the only thing that I'm thinking is that you're probably entering menopause. You're not getting your period. Your numbers are not really reflecting a fertile time. And then [00:06:00] also. You'll probably do better with an egg donor. And he actually diagnosed her with premature ovarian failure.

  And what's crazy is he did another lab and then found that her HCG, which is the pregnancy hormone, was at a very low amount. And he said, well, you know, this could be just an abnormal thing. Then she took a test at home and then saw that it was slightly positive, and I'm thinking, okay, I don't know that I've seen many.

  False positives. This doesn't really make sense that you wouldn't be pregnant based on this. Then she went again and her HCG like really went up and then she went again, and it just keeps going really high. And at one point her progesterone was low, which would make sense if she's under a lot of high stress.

  So he put her on progesterone and it just kept going high to the point where the doctor said. You know what? I don't think that I'm gonna be so quick to say premature [00:07:00] ovarian failure. Maybe I'll say insufficiency, and it really gave him pause because at one point I think he was just based on the numbers, really dismissing that she could possibly get pregnant with her own eggs.

  But sure enough, she is pregnant right now and she never got her period. She must have just ovulated and during that time just went straight to pregnancy. Then I've had another patient who got off of birth control and she had not had her period for about seven months. She was diagnosed with PCOS, and that could be kind of like, um, a fake out that happens sometimes after going on the birth control pill.

  And then again, started coming to me and then she ended up ovulating or noticing that she was ovulating where she, whereas before she was taking Clomid and nothing was helping. And she ended up going straight into pregnancy. And so many times I see people in this with such a range, um, such a [00:08:00] different background, such a variety of different stories.

  And really the one thing that. They have in common is, you know, not really seeing the results and having to find some kind of belief. But the truth is, even though sometimes it feels like you're not believing, the fact that you're listening to this, the fact that, uh, my patients are coming to me or people are actually choosing to come to me, knowing that I'm helping with fertility, means that somewhere in their minds they see a potential, a potential of themselves getting pregnant.

  Because otherwise they wouldn't do it. And that's something to always consider because sometimes you might say to yourself, I'm losing hope. But the fact that you're actually doing things and looking into things to try to conceive means that there's gotta be some kind of hope in there. And there's gotta be some kind of faith in your ability to conceive.

  Otherwise, you wouldn't really be putting any effort whatsoever. So there's gotta [00:09:00] be something inside of you that's telling you that there is potential for your conception and for you to have a baby. And that's really what I wanted to talk about today is really having faith in the unseen. And so many times we're conditioned, we're really living in a world that we are so reactive to just the material world, and we put so much emphasis on the numbers, on the data and the information that sometimes this can cause us to ignore a huge aspect.

  Of reality, which is behind the scenes. It's the intelligence that runs the show. And I always talk about this intelligence that runs the show is evident in ourselves. It's evident because when we have stem cells, which means that. Really, it's like the form of cells that all cells begin at. And I remember having Bruce Lipton and he was talking about how all cells [00:10:00] begin as stem cells, but what changes them?

  What makes them differentiate? If they all have the same blueprint of DNA, what's the difference? Why do some stem cells become liver cells and why do some become fat cells and others become heart cells or, or skin cells? What's the difference, the environment? So Bruce Lipton is a cellular biologist, and he did studies where he would take different stem cells and put them in Petri dishes and would create or alter the environments in which they grew, and those environments impacted how the cell would express itself.

  So all cells start with a blueprint of the DNA. So if the DNA was everything and nothing else mattered, then. Everything would end up being the same because they all have the same DNA, but there has to be something that's instructing those cells to develop the way they are. So what he's [00:11:00] saying is that it's the environment and what impacts this environment is our thoughts.

  So the Biology of Belief is his book, and he talked about how our thoughts can impact and inform our bodies to create hormones. So if it's stressful thoughts, it can cause cortisol to rise and stress hormones, and that can impact the cells. That could be your Petri dish internally because that's your blood.

  And there are studies that were done on watching comedies besides the fact that it helps with transfer rates, which is a huge deal, but it also helps with regulating your immune system. So we know that emotions and emotional states really impact our body. So these are things that are all behind the scenes.

  They work behind the scenes. And Dr. Lisa Miller, she does research on how our belief in something bigger than ourselves or having some kind of spirituality in our life or spiritual practice can [00:12:00] impact our brains and protect our brains from depression. So we're seeing that. Belief in something that is much bigger can impact our emotions and those emotions impact our physiology.

  And so just because we don't place a lot of importance in this in our everyday life doesn't mean it's not worthy of your attention. And it does not mean that this isn't something that you should be considering, especially if you're trying to conceive. And as a woman, we're channels. We are channels and our bodies are channels to bring in new life.

  So having that channel feeling aligned, feeling receptive, is incredibly important. And I see this aspect of our bodies and our minds and our spirits oftentimes so ignored and so much more faith goes into the numbers and the analytics, which change. [00:13:00] They changed like the wind. I've seen them change. They changed really based on lifestyle and it's a snapshot in time.

  And from that snapshot, we can put so much importance into it. And so this is why I felt the need to talk about this, the need to talk about having faith in your body. Having faith in something that is much bigger than us. And so going back to how our cells operate and those intelligence that. Tells and instructs what our cells become.

  You know how they end up expressing themselves. That is this divine intelligence that runs in your system. And there was a saying that many scientists go into science because they don't believe in a greater intelligence because they think that everything's matter. And once they go back, it actually kind of brings them back to.

  The creator, once they start to study [00:14:00] and see even with the body, that there's so much more than meets the eye, that actually proves itself. So if you really, really wanna look and you see how much intelligence runs the show and how there's a mathematical equation to every living form, and you can see things like the Fibonacci sequence showing itself throughout nature, you can realize that things are not as random as we may think.

  And so this is kind of food for thought to realize that having faith. Not just in our process, not just in our lives, but really in something greater than us. Having faith in a creator will also infuse the faith we have in our own bodies. So personally, I do think it's very important to have some kind of spiritual practice, and that does not mean to be religious.[00:15:00]

  It just means to really. Be in awe of our own creation and that we have been born from something so much greater than ourselves. And I hesitated on talking about this because sometimes it can bring up so many different emotions 'cause everybody has a different perspective. But. If I share this as really something that I see oftentimes just with my own work, and also it happens to be that when people connect with their spirit, babies and I had Tori Quizzing on, she was the first guest in our new membership, the Wholesome Fertility Collective, which is a very, very affordable way to get.

  Coaching online every month, and she was our first guest and she is also a spirit baby medium. She talked a lot about spirit babies, and she said that once you make that connection, it really opens the door. And I see this, I actually see it, and [00:16:00] I see miraculous signs coming from my patients, and the signs come so clearly that it becomes almost more clear.

  Then if they're ever gonna get pregnant. And even for me as a practitioner, even though I've seen so many success stories, I still question like, when is it gonna happen? You know, I get really excited and I get also emotionally attached to my patients' stories that sometimes I'm like, when is it gonna happen?

  Is it gonna happen? And I, and I do pray for my patients, so. One of my patients had these incredible signs for months and months and months, and she finally conceived and it was random. It kind of fell outta nowhere because she was about to do her second retrieval. Her first retrieval failed, and it seems random, but it's not random.

  Everything happens for a reason. I've even seen incredible stories and I've had 'em on my podcast where people. Would have their babies and their babies would, and this happened two times, would be born on a certain date [00:17:00] and that date corresponded to the signs that they had before they even conceived, which is mind blowing.

  So those are the kind of things that happen and it makes you think and pause like, is there something else running the show? Is there something else behind the scenes? And is my belief. That's something else. Will that open the door for more miracles? Will that open the door to help me be a better channel?

  I personally believe the answer to that is yes. So my reason for doing this episode is really. To share some of my stories, share some of my findings, and just to mention, even though I love the spirituality aspect, I also love bridging it with science because now we are starting to see things and measure things that we originally did not have access to.

  And I think that that also. Almost sheds light on the fact that there [00:18:00] really is something behind the scenes and we can start to see this through research and evidence, and we can see that visualization makes a difference, that belief makes a difference, and that emotional states make a difference.

  Getting into states of joy and watching comedies, it releases a lot of the tension that we can build up in our bodies. And Chinese medicine talks about that tension. It talks about how constricting ourselves really constricts that life force vitality, this incredible intelligence in our body, which is referred to as she or prana, depending on the background.

  One is from India and one is from China, but they talk about the same thing and that life force vitality, it wants to flow, it wants to move, but we get stuck in a certain state of mind. But believe it or not, even though it doesn't feel this way, our state of mind is malleable. It is something that we actually have [00:19:00] control over.

  It doesn't feel that way. It feels like it controls us, but there are tools and ways that you can get back your control, and I do often teach this to both my clients online and my patients in person. And if you're ever curious or wanna find out more, you can always book a call with my team on my website.

  And many of my other podcast episodes are really about getting that power and that empowerment back into your life. So I really do hope that this episode triggered some sense of hope in you because I will tell you just based on my experience, there is so much more than meets the eye. And even with Chinese medicine, we do learn that the spirit is connected to the body and that the spirit.

  Of a person matters. So thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you benefited from this episode, and I [00:20:00] will see you next time.

  [00:21:00]

Ep 367 5 Ways Science Proves You’re More Powerful Than You Think

What if the most powerful tool for boosting fertility has been inside you all along? In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle reveals five science backed truths that prove your thoughts, emotions, nervous system, and energy hold far more influence over your fertility than you may realize.

Drawing from research in psychoneuroimmunology, HeartMath studies, quantum biology, and epigenetics, Michelle explains how your mind and body work together to shape hormonal balance, ovulation, and overall reproductive health. You will learn why your inner dialogue affects your cells, how stress disrupts the HPO axis, why a regulated nervous system improves conception rates, and how intention can shift your biology at the energetic level.

If you have been feeling discouraged or disconnected from your body, this episode will help you reconnect to your innate wisdom and remind you that your fertility is not just physical. It is influenced by your emotional wellbeing, your beliefs, and the energy you bring to your healing journey.

Tune in and discover how powerful you truly are.

Key Takeaways: 

• Your thoughts create real, measurable physical change in the body

• Emotions communicate with every cell and shape your hormonal landscape

• The nervous system is the master conductor of reproductive health

• Your energy and intention influence biological responses

• You are capable of rewriting your genetic and emotional patterns
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  # 5 Ways Science Proves You’re More Powerful Than You Think (1)

  [00:00:00] Episode number 367 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Today I wanna talk about something that we all need to be reminded of, especially if you've been trying to conceive for a while and you've had moments of doubt or frustration. You are far more powerful than you think. When we're on a fertility journey, it can feel like everything depends on numbers.

  Hormone levels, follicles, test results. And while those things matter, they're only part of the story because the truth is your body isn't a machine that needs fixing. It's a field of consciousness, it's energy, intelligence, and life force in motion. And today I wanna share five things that prove you are super powerful and not in some abstract way, but in ways that are scientifically and energetically real.

  [00:01:00] Wondered whether your thoughts, emotions, or beliefs actually matter in this process? The answer is a resounding yes. Number one, your thoughts create physical change. So let's start with one of the most mind blowing truths. Your thoughts literally shape your biology. The field of psycho neuroimmunology, which studies the link between your mind, your nervous system, and your immune system has proven this over and over.

  Dr. Canis Pert, who was one of the pioneers in this research. Discovered that neuropeptides, which are chemical messengers of emotion travel throughout the entire body. Every thought, every [00:02:00] belief, and every internal dialogue you have sends messages to yourselves. One famous study led by Dr. Ellen Langer at Harvard showed this in a profound way, she placed a group of elderly men in an environment designated to feel like it was 20 years earlier.

  So the music, the magazines, decor, and even the conversations were all from their younger years and after just one week, these men showed measurable changes, which are improved vision, posture, hearing, and even muscle strength. Their body's responded to what their minds believed to be true. Now, imagine applying that to fertility if perception can influence aging.

  Imagine what believing in your body's ability to conceive can do when you shift from thoughts like, my body is failing me to my body is wise, and it's learning what it needs. You change the entire chemical environment in [00:03:00] which your cells operate. From a traditional Chinese medicine perspective, that's the she or spirit at work.

  When the she is calm and clear, this impacts a state of your heart. And has a trickle effect to your entire body. Hormones can balance, Q can flow, and the womb becomes more receptive with this heart opening. So yes, your thoughts matter, and every loving, trusting thought is a signal of safety that your body responds to.

  So number two, your emotions communicate with every cell. Have you ever felt butterflies in your stomach when you're excited or a heaviness in your chest? When you're sad or anxious, that's your body responding to your thoughts. So research from the HeartMath Institute has shown that your heart has its own nervous system and electromagnetic field, and one that extends several feet beyond your body.

  And that field changes based on your emotional [00:04:00] state. So when you experience gratitude or compassion, your heart rhythm becomes more coherent. And that means your brain and your heart synchronize and your body shifts into a healing state, and this directly impacts fertility because when your nervous system is calm and your heart rhythm is coherent, blood flow to the uterus improves.

  Cortisol levels drop and your reproductive hormones balance. In Chinese medicine, emotions are inseparable from physical health. The liver governs the free flow of qi, which is your life force vitality, and when we're frustrated or tense. That flow can stagnate, which can delay ovulation and the spleen associated with worry influences, digestion and nutrient absorption.

  Both key for egg quality and the kidneys. The root of fertility are weakened by chronic fear. So when you nurture your emotional wellbeing, you're not [00:05:00] just soothing your mind, you're optimizing your reproductive system. It's not just about avoiding emotions, it's actually about allowing them to move because emotions are energy and motion.

  When that energy flows, life force vitality in turn can flow. And number three, your nervous system holds the key to hormonal harmony. Here's one of the biggest truth I wish every woman knew. Your nervous system is the master conductor of your hormones. Your reproductive system is governed by something called the HPO Access.

  That's the hypothalamic. Pituitary ovarian access, and it's like a conversation between your brain and your ovaries, but that conversation is deeply influenced by stress levels. And so when you're in fight or flight, your body prioritizes survival over reproduction, cortisol rises and it suppresses the hormone GNRH, which is what [00:06:00] triggers ovulation.

  This isn't your body betraying you, it's actually protecting you. It's saying this isn't a safe time to create, but the moment you shift into parasympathetic mode, which is rest and digest state, your body receives a message. It's safe now in a 2011 study published in Fertility and sterility. It showed that women who participated in mind body programs for stress reduction had a 52% conception rate within a year compared to 20% in the control group.

  That's more than double acupuncture, meditation, gentle breath work. These are not luxuries when it comes to fertility health. Their nervous system medicine, they tell your brain and ovaries, you can communicate again. That's when magic happens. Ovulation, normalizes, cycles regulate and conception can be more supported.

  And number four, your energy field [00:07:00] responds to intention. Yes, you heard that correctly. Quantum physics has revealed something. Ancient. Wisdom has always known. Everything is energy. The famous double split experiment, scientists found that the act of observation simply paying attention changes how subatomic particles behave.

  So your focus is a creative force, and that means your body, your womb, your cells, they're responding to your attention when you place your hands over your womb. Breathe into it with love and gratitude, you're creating a physiological change. Studies by Dr. Herbert Benson at Harvard have shown that meditation and visualization can activate what he called the relaxation response, which turns on genes associated with fertility and healing while turning off.

  Genes linked to stress and inflammation. Your intention changes your biology. And [00:08:00] traditional Chinese medicine has said this for thousands of years, where the mind goes, Q follows, when your thoughts rest in the womb with compassion and trust, energy follows circulation increases and your body's creative potential can expand.

  Number five, you can rewrite your biological story. And this last one might be the most empowering of all. Science used to tell us that our genes determine everything, but we now know that is not the full story. The study of epigenetics, which literally means. Above the genes shows that your environment, beliefs, and emotions can turn genes on or off.

  Dr. Bruce Lipton's research demonstrated when you change your emotional and energetic environment, you can change how your DNA expresses itself. You're not a prisoner of your genetics. You are the author [00:09:00] of how they play out a study published in Nature. Neuroscience even showed that stress in one generation can influence fertility in the next, but that this effect can be reversed through nurturing, safety, and emotional healing.

  That means your healing work now, your mindfulness, your self love. Your trusts can actually shift patterns that may have been carried through generations. You are breaking cycles, not just for yourself, but for your lineage. So when you choose to believe that your body is capable of creating life, you're not just hoping you're rewriting your biology.

  And let's remember, you are not separate from the intelligence that creates life. You are. Intelligence, here are your five reminders of power. Your thoughts create physical change. Your emotions communicate with every cell. [00:10:00] Your nervous system governs your fertility. Your energy field responds to intention and you can rewrite your biological story.

  Your fertility journey is not about forcing your body to work. It's about remembering that it knows how to and when you align your mind, emotions, and energy with that truth. Your body responds. If this episode resonated with you and you wanna explore more of these principles, I invite you to join me inside the wholesome fertility collective.

  It's a space where women come together to reconnect with your body's wisdom, and remember that creation is their nature because you, yes, you are not broken. You are powerful beyond measure, and your body's divine intelligence is always. Listening. Thank you so much for joining me today. If you love this episode, please share it with someone who needs to be reminded of their power.

  And as always, [00:11:00] I will see you next week right here on the Wholesome Fertility Podcast.

  [00:12:00]

Ep 366 The Parasite Conversation No One’s Having (But Should Be)

In this eye-opening episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle sits down with Kim Rogers, also known as “The Worm Queen,” to have the parasite conversation no one’s having but absolutely should.

A seasoned Western medicine professional turned holistic wellness educator, Kim shares her journey from battling endometriosis, mold toxicity, and Lyme disease to founding RogersHood Apothecary and developing the viral ParaFy Parasite Cleanse Kit.

Together, Michelle and Kim dive into the hidden world of parasites, mold, and heavy metals, and how these often-overlooked culprits could be affecting your digestion, mood, skin, and even fertility. You’ll learn how exposure happens, why binders and biofilm-busting herbs are key, and when cleansing is safe and beneficial, especially if you’re trying to conceive or preparing for IVF.

If you’ve ever felt unwell despite “normal” labs, this episode will change how you see your body’s internal ecosystem and empower you to take charge of your health from the inside out.

Key Takeaways: 

• Discover how hidden parasites and toxins could be silently impacting your fertility, mood, and digestion.

• Learn why “cleaning your soil” may be the missing piece in your preconception or IVF journey.

• Find out the surprising everyday sources of parasites, from pets to produce, and how to protect yourself.

• Understand why binders and biofilm-busting herbs are essential for safe and effective detoxing.

• Hear how Kim’s viral ParaFy cleanse is helping thousands reclaim their energy, clarity, and overall wellness.

Guest Bio:

Kim Rogers is a seasoned wellness professional with over 20 years of experience in Western medicine. After facing her own health challenges including endometriosis, parasites, Lyme disease, and mold poisoning, Kim transitioned from pharmaceuticals to natural healing. She co-founded RogersHood Apothecary in 2021, where she now serves as CEO and creator of the globally recognized ParaFy Parasite Cleanse Kit.

Her viral success on TikTok and Instagram brought global attention to parasite cleansing and holistic detoxification. Through transparency and education, Kim continues to inspire millions to take control of their health and become their own advocates. She also hosts the podcast What’s Eating U?!, where she explores the intersections of wellness, environmental toxins, and personal empowerment.

Use coupon code FERTILITY for 10% off at rogershood.com/ref/3077

Links and resources:

• Visit Kim’s website: rogershood.com/ref/3077

• Follow Kim on Instagram: @mrsrogers.hood

• Connect with Kim on Facebook: Kim Rogers

• Watch Kim’s podcast What’s Eating U?! on YouTube:youtube.com/@Whatseatingupodcast

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

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Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  # TWF: EP 366 Kim Rogers

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Episode number 366 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today I'm joined by Kim Rogers, AKA, the worm queen, a veteran of western medicine turned natural wellness educator and CEO of Rogers Hood apothecary. After navigating endometriosis, parasites, lime, and mold.

  Kim created the viral parasite cleanse, and now teaches millions how cleaning the soil, which is addressing parasites, mold, candida, and heavy metals can shift stubborn symptoms from digestion and skin to mood and fertility. We'll break down what parasites actually are, how exposure happens, and why binders and biofilm busting herbs matter and when it's appropriate to cleanse or not cleanse, especially if you're.

  Trying to conceive or doing IVF if your labs look normal, but you still [00:01:00] feel like something else is going on, this episode is for you.

  Welcome to the podcast, Kim.

  Kim: Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to chat about all of this.

  Michelle: Yes. I'm so excited to have you. This is really the first of its kind of this conversation, and I'm super excited. When I saw your information, I was like, wow, this is actually. I think information that a lot of people need to know about, including me, I'm excited to learn. So before we get started, I always like to start with an origin story, like how you got into this work and really how you discovered it in your own journey.

  Kim: Well, I don't know if [00:02:00] I would say I got into it. I think I was told by the universe that this is what I was meant to do, and so

  Michelle: I.

  love those kinds because they're always good.

  Kim: The navigating of it, you're like, really? Like even this morning because so for some of you guys that don't know who I am, my name is Kim Rogers and I'm known online as the Worm Queen, and I hold that title very dear to my heart. I've made merch around it, like it's really a fun title. Such a yucky subject that people don't really want to talk about.

  But I'm happy to talk about it. I'm one of those people that at the dinner party that if you don't wanna hear it, you should leave. 'cause I'm gonna say it no matter what.

  Michelle: I love it.

  Kim: I've always been that way and now it's just worse. 'cause I talk about worms all day, right? Like I talk about poop and worms and it.

  Poop is really not my favorite topic to talk about. However, it does go hand in hand with the worms. So you know, it's like you kind of have to take the good with the bad. Alright, so [00:03:00] I went viral on TikTok in 2021 and I went a viral over a parasite cleanse, and that's why I was known. That's why I'm known as the Worm Queen.

  My community over there crowned me the Worm Queen, so that. I could go forward with something fun for a gross and an under talked about topic and Western medicine doesn't talk about it. And shockingly enough over the last few years, the wellness community doesn't talk about this either, and they don't understand that in order for our actual wellness.

  To happen. You need to clean your soil. And cleaning your soil means you really need to do parasite cleansing and mold cleansing and get in there and really clean the soil out. And I'm gonna go over why on this podcast. It's so important to clean your soil. And if you don't do that, how sometimes it can be a waste of time and it can also really not.

  Do a service for you, you're thinking you're doing [00:04:00] all the right things. And in reality there's just like a few things you really have to do in order to make your health go to the next level. And that's what I found out when I was on my journey. So I come from Western medicine, I am a Western medicine refugee, is what we kind of been jokingly talking about it with.

  I've been in it since 2004. I hold two healthcare degrees. I ran 25 medical colleges. I was a professor. I've authored medical books. I've served on advisory boards. I've written national certifications. I worked in the emergency room. I did insurance. So I really have been very well-rounded in Western medicine versus just.

  Going viral on TikTok. I just happened to go viral on TikTok on something that I really could speak about 'cause it has to do with the human body. So I've been doing that since 2019 and my own health declined rapidly in 2019, and I [00:05:00] set us up so that I could go out to our recreational property to either say goodbye or to figure out what was wrong with my body.

  And that's what we did. So in 2019, we headed out to a piece of recreational property to build a log home. And when I got out there, I was doing a pretty good job. I felt a little bit better. I got away from the stress. I started navigating with mushrooms and really getting off of my big pharma me. But I still wasn't at an optimal level in 2021 than I wanted to be.

  I wasn't pooping regularly, which is a huge concern for myself. And actually, you should be concerned too, if you're not pooping on a regular basis, it means something's going on internally. My skin was a wreck and I have really great skin, and so I really wanted to know what else was going on, and I was on TikTok.

  I had a small account that I was teaching people how to build a log home and grow mushrooms. So I had around 10,000 [00:06:00] followers. I did a cleanse because I came across the gal's video that said I almost unli myself over worms, and it stopped me in my tracks and I thought, you know. It's possible, like it's possible that a lot of my symptoms are because I could have parasites.

  I flare during the full moon, and I have a lot of the issues that she was talking about, specifically mental health issues. So I ordered what she was talking about, and within three days I saw roundworm, flukes, and pinworms in the toilet, and I didn't even have to dig. They literally were just sitting on the top of the water just pointing at me basically like, girl, this has been your problem for decades.

  And I have done this every day since then. I have talked about parasites 1,488 days in a row. I've never taken a day off.

  Michelle: That's

  Kim: important. Mm-hmm.

  Michelle: Oh, big time. Important. I have so many questions [00:07:00] already. Wow. That's crazy. Okay, so. How do people get parasites besides like, is it raw foods? Like what is it?

  Kim: It's all of that. It's raw foods. Your pets, I would say a hundred percent of pet owners that have never de-worm themselves, have worms from their dogs. I had the same worms as my dogs, but I also had a parasite from the water. So water is a way to get a parasite and not just a parasite. So let me give you the definitions of what parasites are.

  The definition of the umbrella word parasite is anything that feeds off a host and in Latin terms, an unwanted dinner guest. So you have an umbrella.

  Michelle: You make, you make me laugh.

  Kim: See, you gotta like, it's serious, but you gotta

  Michelle: No, I know, I know.

  Kim: What are we gonna say here? And be

  Michelle: I know. It's serious, but It's just, yeah.

  Kim: It's serious. Like you just have to go.

  It's so serious, like pointing and like seriousness. [00:08:00] So if you look at then what happens underneath the parasites, there's lots of different words. There's protozoa, which is a parasite that's microscopic, that's usually found in the water. So I had Cryptosporidium parm, which is parvo, which on a live puppies, and my husband had D fried G leaves.

  Which is a sister to Giardia. We all know what Giardia is. We've heard it. When you have a water break at your house, you have to boil your water. They're just afraid you're gonna catch a parasite, right? And that they don't have good testing. So they can't give you a guarantee that in fact you didn't catch it from the water break.

  So. That's where we caught some of our parasites. But then there's nematodes and nematodes are physical worms, roundworm, tape worm, whipworm pin worms, all of the physical worms. And our country doesn't test our water for nematodes. And those are the physical worms. We had nematodes in our water and hoodsport, and it's a [00:09:00] well that services.

  Thousands of people in that community. And I've also tested my water here in Seattle and tested positive for nematodes too. And as I've done dug down deeper, I find out our country doesn't actually test for physical worms in our water and they only test for protozoas. So now that everybody understands the difference, there is a significant difference in the two types of parasites.

  That you would do a parasite cleanse for? Right. We're not trying. My paras purify is not for lice and scabies. It is helpful, but that's also under the word parasites, but they're in their own definition. So now that everybody kind of has an understanding of what the differences, it really does help when you're.

  Thinking about where you can catch a parasite. So a lot of dogs will go out and they'll lick everything, and then they have microscopic parasites that can go onto you and absorb into your skin when you let them lick on you, [00:10:00] or if they're laying with you. It really is a thing. I had the same parasites as my dogs.

  My dogs head worms. I deworm them, but I never deworm myself.

  Michelle: Wow. That's crazy. That's true. It's, true. We always focus on that.

  Kim: it's really a crazy thought process that we are so concerned about our pets, you know? Another place that you can catch a parasite is salmon and sushi,

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Kim: raw meat, raw produce.

  Michelle: So salmon, raw salmon, or also cooked. If it's not cooked enough, maybe if it's undercooked.

  Kim: So the salmon still has it inside. It's just if it you cook it, it becomes dead.

  Michelle: Okay.

  Kim: salmon can hold up to 10,000 parasite eggs in one square inch of its body.

  Michelle: My God. Wow.

  Kim: The closer to the belly of the cut of the salmon, the more parasites. I live in Seattle and I have gone down and interviewed the people at Pike Market, which is [00:11:00] like

  the famous fish market. And when I talked with them about this, they looked at me like I was crazy because I said so. Tell me which fish have parasites And they go, well, all of 'em. They all have worms. It's natural. And I'm like, oh god. Good thing I got that on tape.

  Because everyone seems to think that this is not a real thing, that you could catch a parasite from fish or seafood.

  Michelle: I think people are in a denial. They just don't want to know. I think that that's what

  Kim: I'm

  Michelle: it's like I don't wanna know about it. If I don't see it, it doesn't exist. That's funny.

  Kim: it. So, you know, those are like really simple ways that you can catch something like this. And then the problem is that after you catch it, it doesn't always become active, right? So we can lay [00:12:00] dormant in your body and then all of a sudden something happens in your life that's very stressful and they feed off of low frequencies and bam, all of a sudden.

  Now you are sick and you have no idea why, and it's because you're continuously eating a parasite. Or say you go to Mexico. I mean, everyone goes, don't be drinking the water in Mexico. I don't drink the water in the United States.

  Michelle: Yeah,

  Kim: I don't like.

  Michelle: neither. Another top one, or no?

  Kim: Yeah, I don't eat raw produce in the United States because it's washed with our water. I don't use ice in the United States. Like, I'm pretty strict with those things since I've done a lot of cleansing and I just know

  Michelle: know too much.

  Kim: I do. It's so unfortunate. 'cause salmon's my favorite, like

  Michelle: Yeah. So I'm guessing you're not eating any raw fish anytime soon.

  Kim: No, no, no, no, I'm not. But you know, the funny thing about the word salmon is that it's actually my niece's last name. [00:13:00]

  Michelle: Is It really?

  Kim: It is, and I'm allergic to salmon. I've had my hair tested and it came back that I'm allergic to salmon. I'm like, well, that's because I have a negative frequency when I say salmon now, so it's auto.

  I'm allergic to salmon. My niece's last name is salmon, and on a daily basis I talk shit about salmon. The matrix is cruel.

  Michelle: You are so funny. I look, this is really funny. It's,

  it really is. Now. Now It's true. The f there is a frequency. it's a real thing.

  Kim: thing. Frequencies

  Michelle: see the parasite eggs, we, we, we can't see the actual parasites, but the eggs, we can't see the frequency, but you know, we feel it for sure.

  Kim: Well, we're frequency, right? So basically what I did when I realized that after I went viral on TikTok and I went viral over my own parasite cleanse, not para, I actually started my business a few months after, which. Just for [00:14:00] viewers to hear this and the community to hear this. I was still very ill when I went viral.

  It wasn't like all of a sudden I went viral and bam, I'm in, like I'm in this, I'm in the health I'm in today. You know, like it really was. I had parasites and then I found out we were living in mold in the middle of all of this. And then in 2023, I, I found out I had chronic end stages of Lyme, and that's what was like my uphill battle.

  But I started a company over all of this because of the fact that I was spending all day long talking about other people's product, how you should take a parasite cleanse with a candida cleanse and a heavy metal cleanse because they all hang out together. And so as I was. Doing all of the things while I was going viral, and when I say I was going viral, it wasn't a little viral, it was a million people watched my one video in two hours and it shut my account down.

  It shut my phone down. It overheated my phone. And then in, and [00:15:00] since all of this time, that video has had 10 million views. My account used to get 40 to 50 million views a month. So it was like a million to 2 million views a day until TikTok smartened up. And anytime you say parasite, it's totally censored now.

  So, but we have a million followers across all of. Our platforms, and we also now have a 10,000 square foot manufacturing facility and 40 team members that help make the purify cleanse among other cleanses that we now make because we really are an environmental toxin cleanse company that shows you how to get rid of parasites, mold, and, and assists with Lyme.

  So everything that's affected me, I've just, I made a business over it.

  Michelle: But you're helping people, which is amazing. This is what I always say, that's like completely aligned purpose when you know, you take something that you have gone through and then you're not only helping yourself, but you're helping others. But I think that that's when it really has an [00:16:00] impact.

  And of course, it's a passion because you know what you went through.

  Kim: Yeah. Yeah. I was not a fan of parasites in my real life before this though. I left the urgent care 'cause I had to treat parasites and I'm like, I'm out. I'm out.

  Michelle: It's very poetic how, how how things happen. Yeah. And so tell us some of the things, some of the symptoms that people can have from Para. It's 'cause people can have it and not realize that they have anything. What are some of the things that are red flags or, and you can also mention, you know, you went through endometriosis as well, which a lot of listeners have gone through.

  Kim: So some of my symptoms of endo happened to be parasites, molden, Lyme, just, I'm just gonna put it out there. I had a hysterectomy when I was 29 years old. I had five surgeries prior to the hysterectomy, and then I had five surgeries after the hysterectomy. Total amount of surgeries I've had due to [00:17:00] endometriosis.

  Has been 13 and in 2019, I was told after my last surgery that I could no longer have surgeries and that this is the way I was gonna have to live in pain, bloated, uncomfortable, not pooping, and just trying to regulate my daily pain. And that to me is not acceptable. And so that's really what made me dig in even more.

  And now looking back in all the research that I've done, I can't believe that these things were not brought to my attention. It's been 20 years. I'm 47 years old, so it's not like this was something that was really common back then to talk about, and that's why I'm so passionate about it. It's really upsetting that our western medicine countries don't understand that someone needs to clean their soil first before they do a life altering surgery or a life altering event. I was on chemo twice. It damaged my bones, it damaged my body. It didn't stop the endo from growing. And every time I would watch a surgery [00:18:00] or I would look at pictures, I always thought, this looks really suspicious.

  And when I went to my doctors and said that, they just gaslit me and I would research, but like at what point, even with the amount of knowledge I have, and when I say that I'm smart, it's not. Because I'm trying to have a big ego. I literally was valedictorian over two medical degrees. I'm really smart. So when I went to my doctors and I said, Hey, like this just doesn't look right.

  Like, could you explain this to me? And they're not able to explain it for a few reasons. Once they just don't know. And it's not their fault

  they're reading a

  Michelle: just not in the system.

  Kim: That's right. That's right. Their indoctrination did not allow them to speak about it. Right. And then their malpractice fear does not allow them to go outside of the box.

  So it's my job.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Kim: Out. It's the truth. It's the truth. And I know because I was a licensed medical specialist, I worked in the field and I went out of the box [00:19:00] all the time. I actually let my license go so that I could speak about this even more. So I went viral in July and I let my license go in September because I knew that if I came out the way, I knew I was gonna come out with this, that it wasn't gonna be something that I could like defend with a license anymore.

  You know? And so I think that. Looking at all of this, and me actually being a part of Western medicine, writing, education, academia, all of those things played a huge part in having a better understanding that people that are not in the medical world, they really don't have any idea. And so it's really important for you as a human to be able to advocate for yourself, to be able to have sovereignty over your own body.

  And I think 2020 really taught that. To people, and I feel like that's another reason why I know this is my destiny because everyone was in lockdown in 21. Everyone was looking for [00:20:00] what is a way that they can take sovereignty over their health and figure it out with doing something natural. And that's.

  That's what I talk about every day. I don't just talk about parasites. I literally now show everybody everything I've done to heal my body. I have podcasts over it. I literally want the, the world to be in a, in a wellness space versus we're constantly reacting to our health. Now that we know that our culture does not talk about parasites, mold, it is important for us.

  As a society to talk about it. And so even if you're looking at it in a different lens, it still is gonna happen to you whether you think that you can catch a parasite or not. Everybody has parasites, in my opinion.

  Michelle: It's almost like environmental toxins. It's just like it's there

  Kim: It's an

  Michelle: you know, we're poor as beings, so at one point or another we can't [00:21:00] get away from it. So we have to be proactive.

  Kim: That's right. That's right. You have to be, and now that we know this, I mean, this is what I do every day, honestly. I do one to three hours of podcasting a day. And then in the mornings I run a business to, to make sure everybody is aware of what this movement is. And then I do my podcasting. And then in the afternoon I do content around all of this because it's so important that if you think that you've got IBS, you're grinding your teeth, your skin is a wreck, your labs come back normal.

  You don't feel like yourself. You can't reconnect with your intuition. You're constantly depressed, you're constantly anxious. It's because you potentially have a parasite. I mean, you look at just, I do videos about 21 signs, like you've got reoccurring yeast infections. You have bv, well, you have candida, and candida is a parasite.

  [00:22:00] Candida is a, is a yeast in our body that overgrows and controls your mind telling you to eat sugar because that's what it feeds off of. So that takes it to a next step. Can parasites control your mind? Absolutely. Parasites control your mind and mold brainwashes you. And if you think about that in a live frequency, they're alive in our body and they hijack our nervous system.

  They get into our lymphatic system, and then they cause our brain gut to not connect. And your gut is your brain

  they need.

  Michelle: system. They, yep. So it's a it. Yeah, That's a microbiome can really impact your brain. So it would make sense. Totally. That parasites would as well.

  Kim: And then you bring in the other aspect of the heavy metals and the heavy metals weight them down. Well, we're, we're exposed every day to heavy metals. I'm looking at my water. It's in glass right? [00:23:00] But it's got this on top of it. Okay. Okay, well this is just life. Do you think that maybe there might be something that could seep in at some point when you've got like, so I can't avoid it, but what I can do is I can cleanse it, I can assist my body, assist my organs by using herbs to go in and direct what needs to be pushed where.

  And that's all I did with the purify kit. When I realized after going viral one that the company that I was talking about at the time would not disclose transparency about what's in their product. I realized that this is actually a thing with most companies. I said, what are the natural ingredients that you have on the back of your.

  Is this lab? Are you soaking your herbs? And they're like, well, we can't disclose that. That's patent. And I'm like, what do you mean? You can't tell me why there's color? You know, there's [00:24:00] coloring inside of your tincture. I didn't like that. I didn't like that at all. So I created my own, and I'm very transparent.

  Michelle: I love that, so, so talk to us about what you did actually create in these cleanses. Like what do they do? How long does it work?

  Kim: So it's a 30 day cleanse, and I recommend anybody that has infertility issues, that has reproductive problems to actually go in and do a para parasite cleanse. I. Look back now, I have no regrets, but I do look back and think if I was able to have done this, would I have needed a hysterectomy? And the answer really is no.

  I've also had a lot of people that have infertility issues, done my kit and actually have babies. I can name three people right now that I sent kids to personally, and they have 1-year-old boys. I don't know what it was, but that year happened to be a lot of boys and so.[00:25:00]

  Michelle: And you wouldn't recommend doing this as you're trying to conceive, you would say, do this, pause and then try after?

  Kim: Yeah, because Wormwood dictates the fact that like it can push out any sort of what they think could be a toxin. That's what the herb does. And so I don't recommend that if someone is actively trying or is on IVF to actually do a parasite cleanse. But if you're pausing and you know that you're gonna go for it, then you should be cleaning your soil.

  You should get in there because once your body relieves. Itself of something that it's already living with, right? Because these are living things in our bodies. They're physical living beings in our bodies. So once it re gets rid of that, it can get itself prepared to have another positive living thing living inside of your body, taking your nutrients.

  So. Parasites can take up to 90% of our nutrients, and that's why people that have [00:26:00] hookworm have anemia. That's why people that have a tapeworm are skinny or are totally overweight and cannot lose weight no matter what, because it's stealing the nutrients that your body needs. It's acting like your body, but your physical body, your physical being, is not getting those nutrients.

  So now it's suffering. Multiple different places are no longer getting the a hundred percent energy that it needs in order to operate, and it's relying now on another team member inside. Right? So it's really an unfortunate thing when you do have a parasite and that's why we all end up being somewhat chronically ill.

  Because of that. So if you look at that in a hole when you're trying to get pregnant and you're having a problem, why not give it a try? Like get in there and clean your soil. Get in there and make sure that what you're doing is gonna stick in. One, you're not wasting money. I mean, you're gonna take all these supplements and do all these things, but if you are physical body is not getting what it's needed.

  It's a waste.[00:27:00]

  Michelle: A hundred percent. And talk also about like mold toxicity. 'cause that's something that I think a lot of people don't really know, like. It, It's kind of like people have heard about it, but they don't really know what it is and what it does, and those, there's different types of mold. I know this is more specific to like toxic black mold but I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

  Kim: It's actually all mold. It's not just black mold, so multiple different molds that get into your body. So I have 11 active molds. My body, I've researched mold a lot. So I went viral in 21, and then in 2022 I found out that we were living in black mold in our travel trailer while we were building our log home.

  And when I found that out, I moved us out immediately. And it wasn't just black mold that tried to unli us, it was green mold, which is called cladosporium. I had like. Cryptosporidium and then I had cladosporium. I'm like really, again, playing on the words universe. [00:28:00] So I ended up finding out that specific molds that accumulate inside of your body end up causing you to feel a certain way.

  So green mold was at a high toxic level in my body. Even though green mold normally doesn't unlive people like black mold will. But when it pairs with other molds, it will create an ecosystem storm in your body and your cells absorb mold. So if you cut yourself in half and you looked at yourself, it would look just like the wall, right?

  It would be clusters of mold and it would be growing. And that's what happens in our cells. And then it pushes ourselves out of the way because the colonization of the mold has to be in there. And so it pushes those cells out and those cells are needed. Our red blood cells are needed, and it can grow inside of those, our white blood cells.

  So the cells need the energy and the mold is taking [00:29:00] that energy, and then you get parasites. Most people that have mold end up having parasites, and most people that have mold poisoning end up testing positive for Lyme.

  Michelle: That's crazy. And So you know, if you think about like. Mushrooms and fungus. I mean, it is kind of related. Is there any kind of connection with that, like, or does it help and, you know, certain types of mushrooms help?

  Kim: So mushrooms are a positive frequency and mold is a low vibrational frequency and were made of frequencies. So all I did when I created all of this and when I realized mushrooms were great, is that you look at the frequency of that herb and what the frequency of that ailment is, and so you realize that we're made of frequencies and light.

  And so when you're bringing in certain medications, synthetic driven, it's just a frequency to target that ailment. That's all this is. Right? [00:30:00] So I think people, oh, we take it and it absorbs and it goes to all places, but you're absorbing a frequency. And so I think it's hard 'cause we've never really been taught this type of medicine before.

  We just think of a of a as a physical thing. But if you think about

  Michelle: But the physical things, a reflection of that.

  Kim: Yes, yes. Like when an opera singer gets her voice to the same frequency of a glass and it can shatter, that's a frequency. And so if you find out, like I realize that mushroom frequencies and wormwood frequencies and organ grapefruit, those are all positive frequencies.

  And so when you put them into your body, they're gonna snuff out the negative ailments that are being caused, you know?

  Michelle: Yeah. it's kind of similar to you know, a soil based, a spore based probiotics because they create an environment that doesn't allow the bad bacteria to grow, so it kind of [00:31:00] creates a different pH. So It's almost like a police, you know, a police, but a good police, you know, that takes care of your body and kind of make sure that everything's run well and, and like, bad.

  Opportunistic. Either mold or bacteria, it just doesn't proliferate. So Yeah. It's a defender. That's good. It's policing what it needs to do. Right. It's, that's so good. It's defending, it's like, yo, man, I'm up in here. I don't have time. Like I am going to protect. I'm gonna break down and I'm gonna protect 'cause that's what you brought me into do. Right. So. If you look at everything that you put on your body and in your body and the things that you are doing, they all have frequency.

  Kim: So it's a, it's really the best way to simplify what medicine is.

  Michelle: And so the para cleanse, is it, is.

  that

  Kim: Yeah, it's called paray?

  and [00:32:00] it's a parasite cleanse that's 30 days. It's three tinctures and a binder. And it's everything that I learned over the last well in that, in that time when I created it. We've never changed our parasite cleanse 'cause that's how good it is. This is the original. We've never changed the recipe.

  When I went viral in July of 2021, I started the company in December. So in that timeframe, I studied all night, I researched everything. I read every comment in my, in my dms and and on my videos. And at that point I was making videos like. Three or four a day, and I was doing it so that I could gain the knowledge from people that were watching it.

  And they would go into the comments and they would tell me what they use, what they do, how they do it. And one of the things that was amiss for me was a binder on the first couple of cleanses I did. I come from the emergency room, I come from Western medicine. We don't use charcoal or clay. We use charcoal in the emergency room [00:33:00] though when someone comes in overdosing or with alcohol poisoning, and we use it in a large amount, but in Herb world we use it at a microdose.

  So I realized that one of the biggest things that I was missing and why things were coming out of my skin and in my mouth and like I was peeing them out is 'cause I wasn't binding.

  Michelle: Okay, so explain that. I have a very, very smart audience And they love to really educate themselves, which typically that's what they have to do because they're not really getting their answers elsewhere. so I'd love for, for that to be broken down. Like what's the difference between having a binder, what is it, and also what the herbs do, and why you need the, you know, the two together.

  Kim: So our binder is called Cinnamon and I chose sea lawn, cinnamon and coconut activated charcoal. We all know those words, right? So Sealon cinnamon helps with mold spores. So when you are deworming, you're dropping whatever's [00:34:00] inside of their body. If you have physical worms and when you're breaking down microscopic, it's also could be dropping viruses, bacteria, mold, spores, other parasites.

  So you have to come in with herbs that are synergistically, going to help remove those things while they're getting dumped in your body. So. You might not have ever tested positive for Epstein-Barr virus, but you might have had a worm that was holding that virus like I did, and then all of a sudden you do a cleanse and it dumps it because you didn't have an herb in there to push it out and also to bind it.

  So a binder is a negatively charged herb that attacks and mag magnetizes a positively charged toxin. So it's a magnet. So when you are cleansing, specifically with purify, you're doing candida, parasites, bad bacteria, and viruses and heavy metals. You are going in and you're removing potentially a physical body that's gonna dump that.

  And then once it's in your body, you have to bind it and push [00:35:00] it out, or your body is gonna try and reabsorb it. So you're basically boosting

  Michelle: This is why people feel sick, because you're, you're basically taking something that was dormant, kind of sitting underneath, you know, behind, and then you're bringing it out. You're kinda activating it. So while you're activating it, you need to attach and remove it rather than circulate it, which a lot of toxins detox.

  Detox is used to do, or certain detoxes without binders in general, or even like cleanses that people did.

  Kim: Yeah. That's what I did to myself. That's what my husband did. We just took one tincture. We just took an anti-parasitic tincture and that was it. Well, I got heavy metals coming out. It gave me candida, had 'em coming out my skin, like they were, we did a fulvic soak. They came out my feet like it was, it was really like, oh my God.

  How does, why do people do this? Right. Why are people putting themselves through this? Well, I did feel better, [00:36:00] but the amount of detoxing I did because I wasn't doing it right. And one of the biggest things you have to do, even after a massage, I mean, as a simple massage, you should bind because of the fact that here, I'll give you guys a real quick anatomy and physiology lesson, and it's because of the.

  You'll have an understanding of the lymphatic system and why you need to bind. So our lymphatic system doesn't have a sphincter. It doesn't have a pump, and it's our sewer system. So the sewer system is under our body. And when you get something, even like a massage or you get on a vibration plate, you've just knocked loose, like you said, something that could be dormant.

  You just knocked it loose and it's like, well, where do I go? Oh, this place looks really great to go to. I'm gonna go ahead and attach myself here and cause an another problem. But if you do that and then you bind the binder, comes in like a police officer and says, yeah, no, get, get out. Go. It's gonna bind [00:37:00] itself and move itself out, right?

  That's the job of the charcoal and that's the job of the cinnamon. The cinnamon helps with inflammation, and inflammation is mucus. And mucus is where they live. They live in a biofilm. They meaning mold. Parasites, candida. They live in a hardened shell, so you gotta break the shell. And those are all of the things that I had to learn.

  And then I incorporated that into the Paray Parasite Cleanse kit. Yeah, so because no one has biofilm busters in their, their cleanses, right? So even if you go to like Paraguard, which a lot of people know what Paraguard is, it's 30 bucks on Amazon. It's what I went viral over, but it doesn't have a biofilm.

  Herb in it that breaks the biofilm, and so you are just going in and cleaning out some of the stuff that's literally just floating around. That's not the purpose of a cleanse. The purpose of a cleanse is to get down and dirty and police and get [00:38:00] all these things out, but you gotta break down their house.

  You gotta burn it down in order to expose them.

  Michelle: Yeah. And also have you heard of like zeolite or bentonite clay? What are your thoughts on those?

  Kim: They're great binders. Zeolite can be taken with anything, and it, it's a good binder. Fulvic is a great binder and it can be taken with anything. And in fact, we're working on, well, we have a fulvic soak, so you can actually soak your feet in a fulvic soak that we have. And I had worms swim out of the bottom of my feet when I did a fulvic soak.

  I know, I know, man. I went viral over so many gross things. I'm like, listen, I'm already in the thick of it. The world knows that I had weren't.

  Michelle: is so funny.

  Kim: I'm going for it. You know, so

  Michelle: totally.

  Kim: we're, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna let everyone else have the opportunity to buy, buy what I'm talking about, because Fulvic is great.

  It's really a, a great mineral that fulvic ic [00:39:00] we need in our bodies to help our mitochondria and to really help bind out toxins and heavy metals. So in fact, next year I'm

  Michelle: comes,

  from Sheila G, right?

  Kim: That's one of the places Uhhuh, the fulvic that we use is a peat moss, and it's just dirt. Fulvic is just dirt.

  That's it. So there's ways that they will create things like Sheila gt, but fulvic itself is just peat moss that comes from dirt. But the peat moss absorbs the nutrients that our dirt needs. So if you go and you do a fulvic. Foot soak. And then when you're done with that water, if you go dump that on your plants, they're going to grow exponentially and it's gonna be wild how fast they grow.

  So growers for all sorts of growing use fulvic to help their plants grow, but it detoxes our bodies.

  Michelle: Right. Amazing. And just FYI if you guys do wanna get information, the link is in the episode notes and [00:40:00] we, I do have a, a coupon code as well.

  Kim: Nice

  Michelle: Very cool. So some, so you have the purify kit, you have the fulvic acid. What else do you guys offer? And, and also the purify kit helps with mold.

  Kim: So we actually have a mold kit. So all of the environmental toxin kits that we have, our first one is purify. That's the old G. That's the one we've had for four years,

  but. In May, I developed the lymph kit, LYMF. It helps move your lymphatic and it helps with your three Ps. Your three Ps are ping, pooping and perspiring, and I use the lymph kit every day, and so you can actually use the lymph kit two weeks prior to the purify kit and then you continue to take it while on the purify parasite cleanse and it helps keep your pathways open.

  Michelle: So it's safe to take daily, it's like

  fine.

  Kim: It's your wellness bestie. [00:41:00] Now, instead of a cleanse, it's a wellness kit, so you literally can wake up in the mornings and you can take lymph holy skull and sustain, and what those

  Michelle: Except for pregnancy, correct? Like, yeah.

  Kim: We don't recommend anybody taking anything while pregnant, breastfeeding under the age of three.

  And that has to do with the herbs on chemo meds or on blood thinners. Wormwood a blood thinner and organ grapefruit. Continue your blood. And so if you're already on that, then you don't want to do the two things. We also have in my link, in my profile or in your show notes, I have a link. Hello Pharmacist.

  So if you're ever wondering about can I take my meds with these herbs, not just our herbs, any herbs, that's the website to go to, and they love us. I mean, I've sent millions of people over there. We, we've had, you know, we've sold over 250,000 kits worldwide in four years. So they love us because we're constantly telling people like, I can't give you medical advice.

  I'm just here to talk about [00:42:00] herbs.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  That's great. That's really, really good information. Amazing. Wow, there's so, so much. I'm trying to think of what else. What else do I have any other questions? So is there something that people should be considering when they're taking the cleanse? Do they need to drink extra water? Is there anything that they need to do while they're taking it or kind of keep in mind?

  Kim: So in the show notes, my link tree will be there and in my link tree I have five free eBooks. Everything I do is free. You can email my team anytime. You can utilize these books. With my cleanse or without. So one of the books is Fast Track Guide. It's like 10 to 15 pages and it tells you how to get ready.

  I have a cookbook that right now is a no meat based cookbook, but over the last few years I've done a lot of research and you should have. Some meat protein while cleansing, but this will assist you in getting ideas. It's like 123 pages [00:43:00] at Christmas This year, we'll have a meat protein-based cookbook that is approved for parasite cleansing, and I also have a book that is for drainage pathways to open up your drainage pathways.

  And then there's a book. That is a parasite identification ebook that if you're looking and you're wondering what's in the toilet, you can either send us pictures and I will help identify it. Or you can look in this 600 page book. 'cause I have around 25,000 pictures on my phone that I get sent every day.

  Yeah, it's wild.

  Michelle: That's, that's so crazy. Very, very interesting. I mean, really, really fascinating information. And I'm actually excited because you guys were like, generous enough to send me a kit as Well, so I'm excited to start it. So, wow. So how can people find you I know you'd mentioned a couple of different ways, but how can people find you if they're interested in learning more?

  Kim: Well, you can Google me, Kim Rogers Worm Queen. You can find me. [00:44:00] I know. This is why I have a crown. Like even right up there, like people send me crowns. It's so funny. It's just such a, it's such a fun name. I have it on all my merch anyway, so you can find me by googling me that way. Or you can go to my social media accounts, Mrs.

  Rogers Hood. M-R-S-R-O-G-E-R-S-H-O-O-D. On Instagram, there's a dot after Rogers and Hood. Someone has the whole name put together, I feel for her dms, and then you can find my website, rogers hood.com. My podcast is called What's Eating You with the Letter U. That's on YouTube as well as all streaming platforms.

  So I'm pretty much everywhere. If you just type in Worm Queen, I'm sure I'm gonna pop up somewhere.

  Michelle: Oh, awesome. Well, Kim, this is such a great and fun and funny episode, but really like amazingly important too, and great information. I think that a lot of people [00:45:00] would not even consider thinking about this. So I really thank you for bringing this up and kind of sharing your amazing information. So thank you so much for coming on today.

  Kim: thanks for having me.

  Michelle: Awesome stuff.

Ep 365 Meditation with a Mission: How Self-Hypnosis Can Reprogram Your Life

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Rita Black (@shiftweightmastery), a clinical hypnotherapist and weight management expert, to explore how self hypnosis can transform your habits, health, and overall mindset. Rita shares her personal journey of quitting smoking and breaking free from emotional eating through hypnosis and how she has helped thousands do the same.

We dive into the science behind the subconscious mind, the difference between hypnosis and meditation, and how identity shapes your habits, beliefs, and even your physical health. Whether you are trying to change a behavior, reprogram limiting beliefs, or shift your mindset around fertility and well being, this episode will show you how to harness your mind’s power to create lasting change.

Key Takeaways: 

• How hypnosis works to bypass the conscious mind and rewire habits at the subconscious level.

• The difference between meditation and self hypnosis and why the latter is “meditation with a mission.”

• Why identity is the foundation of transformation and how it shapes behavior and physiology.

• How subconscious beliefs can affect fertility, weight, and other health outcomes.

• Simple daily self hypnosis and gratitude techniques to prime your brain for positive change.

• Why quitting smoking or vaping is less about willpower and more about identity and subconscious programming.

Guest Bio:

Rita Black, C.Ht. (@shiftweightmastery), is a clinical hypnotherapist and renowned expert in smoking cessation and weight loss. She is the author of the best-selling From Fat to Thin Thinking: Unlock Your Mind for Permanent Weight Loss and the host of the Thin Thinking podcast. Through her signature online programs, Shift Weight Mastery Process and Smokefree123, Rita has guided thousands to harness the power of their subconscious mind to create lasting, healthy transformations.

She also offers two free resources to help you begin your own transformation journey:

• Free Weight Loss Masterclass: How to Stop the “Start Over Tomorrow” Weight Struggle Cycle and Start Releasing Weight for Good - a 75-minute session that includes a light hypnosis experience to help you identify and remove subconscious barriers to weight loss. Join here

• Free Smoking Cessation Masterclass: How to Stop Smoking Without Withdrawal, Cravings, or Weight Gain — a practical, empowering approach to quitting for good. - Join Here
  
  

Links and resources:

Visit Rita’s website here
YOU, the Non-Smoker? Yes, it's Possible - learn more here
Follow Rita on Instagram

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast, Rita. I'm so happy to have you.

  Rita: I'm really excited to be here, Michelle, and have a great conversation about the mind with you.

  Michelle: Yes, the mind, it really uh, is so powerful, oftentimes ignored. We just talked about that

  in the pre-talk, Oftentimes ignored because it's hard to really wrap your hands around, it's not something that you can touch and feel. It's something that can paint your perspective and you can't, you don't even realize it's doing that.

  Rita: Yeah, I mean, our thoughts either own us or we own our thoughts, our habits either own us or we own us. And I have, interestingly, because I'm older than you, when I started my practice, it was pre cell phones

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Rita: something that I noticed just like, why, you know, we, and this will be relevant to just what you said.

  Is that prior to 2007 when the iPhone, I believe first came on the market people's brains were different than they are now. People are like uh,[00:01:00]

  Michelle: is so true.

  Rita: Much more short attention span. Everybody thinks they have a DHD, although it's just that our brains are overstimulated, overwhelmed the digital era now AI is just like taking it, ratcheted it up, just.

  Crazy. And so I think we are gonna be entering into a new era of brain management. Like where, you know, we, we manage our health, but we also recognize from the moment we wake up, we're either managing our brain or our brain is managing us.

  Michelle: so true. I wanna get to that. That is absolutely true. I actually find myself now. I'm like, I'm gonna write my copy. I'm gonna, you know, like I, I do get help of course, you know,

  because you can't do everything. It's almost like I look at it like AI is an assistant, so, I'm still the CEO, I'm gonna, you know, manage my own creativity. And I used to probably rely a little bit more, and now I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna write this. I'm gonna think this. I'm, I'm finding myself like bringing that naturally back. And wanting to, [00:02:00] and wanting to kind of like, almost like assert my own uniqueness as a human

  Rita: I think we are gonna find, I mean, because this is just, incubating stages of this, you know, as we human beings learn to interact with AI and our brains. I am doing the same thing as you. I am like, oh, this is kind of like a brain muscle, and if I don't keep flexing my brain muscle, I will get flabby and I won't be able to create my own copy, or I won't be able to come up with ideas.

  I'll just become relying on this thing outside of me and until they create the brain shift that go in our

  Michelle: Yeah, I know. Oh

  God. It's like total

  Rita: in steroids.

  Michelle: Yeah, it's gonna be like insane.

  So, so actually before we get started, I'd love for you to tell us your origin story.

  Which I always love to hear just a little bit more about you and how you got interested in the work that you do, and specifically like how you [00:03:00] even niched on that.

  Rita: Yeah, well I niched from the very beginning because I actually was somebody who was a pack and a half a day smoker, and I also struggled with my weight up and down the scale of 40 pounds and from a very early age. So I, I was in my early thirties and just a hot mess and had tried to quit smoking a number of times and, and sometimes successfully, like, I could get a year under my belt, but I would always, always, always go back.

  And I just found it really hard and, and my husband smoked. And so anyway, a friend of mine went to a hypnotherapist and you know, this was in the nineties and. We're so much like even meditation people were not talking about it. It was just like, that was just going to, a hypnotherapist was still really outside the norm of some sort of, you know, like modalities, like acupuncture.

  I know you do acupuncture. It's just like [00:04:00] all of that was still like, seemed really granola, hippie dippy, you know? Woo. And not practical application. And she said this, and I was like, hypnosis, like, you know, and you picture this guy with a mustache and a polyester jacket and he's waving a watch in

  Michelle: That's gonna make you bark.

  Rita: and he is gonna make you bark and collect like a duck.

  And I was like, really? And she's like, I stopped in one session and I have had no cravings and I. Don't even care that, you know, like, I don't even want a cigarette. No regrets. I was like, huh, what? Okay, well maybe I'm a little more interested now. And so I went and saw the same hypnotherapist and you know, when you go to somebody who's not just somebody that heals you or is, you know, a practitioner, but that they're a teacher as well, they just really love what they do and they wanna.

  Michelle: Yes.

  Rita: You know, lay it all on you. And so this guy was really awesome. He was this older British gentleman. This was in Venice, [00:05:00] California. I live in Los Angeles. And and he explained how the mind worked to me. Like he, he, he wasn't just like, get in the chair and I'm gonna hypnotize you. He was like, this is why it's been hard for you.

  I can explain kind of at the same time is that, you know, he was explaining like, I have this model behind me. For those of you listening audio, it's like only 12% of your mind is the conscious, critical, analytical part of your mind. That is the part of the mind that wants to quit smoking. The other 88%, the part of you that believes smoking, you know your beliefs.

  So the part of my brain that believed. Smoking calmed me down and was great after a meal and helped me wake up in the morning. And all that power in my brain had given that was in my subconscious. And so was the patterns, like the pattern of smoking after a meal or when I got in my car or what have you.

  and then just the identity of being a smoker. 'cause whenever I went to quit smoking, I was always a smoker who was trying to quit smoking. And [00:06:00] so my brain still. Thought of me as a smoker. And so what happened in the session was I, you know, so he explained that, over from birth until we're in our twenties, everything, our parents, teachers life experiences get imprinted in our subconscious.

  And this critical filter is formed so that. Anything coming in, no matter if you're reading studies about how bad smoking is for you no matter how many people outside of you are telling you quit smoking, it's bad for you, et cetera. The other 88% is like, when am I gonna get my next cigarette? It doesn't

  Michelle: Hmm. Yeah.

  Rita: And, and so the part of your mind that is driving whatever behavior, whether it's smoking, whether it's overeating, or or nail picking or hair pick picking or any of negative habits. The conscious part of you is like, I want the change, but the subconscious is like business as usual. We is driving you to engage in that same behavior over and over again below your conscious awareness.

  [00:07:00] So how hypnosis is helpful is it relaxes the critical filter. So suggestions can be given and really quickly, well, at least for smoking, weight is a little different. It's a little more slow because we can't stop food. But we can stop nicotine. We don't need nicotine in order to live. So, in that one session, I stepped into being a non-smoker.

  So I stepped into a non-smoking identity. I shifted my focus to being a happy, healthy non-smoker. I let, it was like shedding of a skin, like, you know, snakes, sheds the skin. and I left that session and I was like. I totally get it. It's not like I forgot that I smoked, like I think some people think you take smoking out of your brain and you throw it away.

  When you do hypnosis or somebody, you, you wake up out of this trance and go, I used to smoke. That's crazy. It wasn't like that, but I left the session going. I'm a non-smoker and, and I [00:08:00] just don't do that anymore. and so I was able to hang out with friends because this was the nineties. People still smoked in bars and, you know, around it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like,

  Michelle: right.

  So you were exposed to it. It's hard.

  Rita: Yeah. And, and I just was like, that's something you do. I, I just don't do it anymore. And I wasn't like waving my hand and being an annoying non-smoker, you know, being shaming people about it. It was just like, okay, I, I don't do that anymore. So, so that was my first. Taste of hypnosis and, and what happened after that?

  Because that was such a, like my, you know, one of those life shifting experiences where sort of the penny dropped and I was like, aha, I bet the same is challenging for my yo-yo dieting. You know, maybe. My conscious mind wants to lose weight and knows how to lose weight. Like I read every diet book. It wasn't like I lacked information, but this other subconscious part of my mind, my habits, my beliefs, even my identity.

  [00:09:00] Like we, we start to, we really believe we're a weight struggler, and so we're always struggling against being a struggler and, and really bring that, that identity kind of locks us into this whole weight struggle world. And holds us captive. And so, that's when I started exploring hypnosis for weight management.

  And, and the rest is history. I lost 40 pounds. I kept him off for 30 years. And, and have used hypnosis every day of my life, you know, for you know, do self hypnosis in the morning for just changing whatever I can about my life because there's always something I can make better, you know?

  Michelle: talk about self hypnosis. 'cause that's always really, really

  Rita: Yeah. Well,

  Michelle: what is that? For

  who have never heard of

  Rita: Yeah, I mean, self-hypnosis, if you wanna think about it, it is sort of meditation with a mission, right? Like you're going into a relaxed state, but you are using your mind, and most of the time a [00:10:00] self-hypnosis session, you're gonna focus on what you wanna create. Like where you're gonna put your focus rather than what you're not going to do.

  Because the brain doesn't really process negatives. It's like if we're like, I don't wanna go to McDonald's, it, here's, go to McDonald's. Right? Like, don't go to McDonald's. Right. So the brain, and, and if you ask, I mean, it's always amazing to me and maybe to you as well because I know I know you're working with fertility, but you know, a lot of times.

  People, if you ask 'em like, well, what do you wanna create? What do you wanna do in your life? they're more clear on what they don't want versus what they do.

  Michelle: So

  Rita: So, so when we really actually sit and have to think about like, what do I really wanna create? And the way then. just doing that helps your brain get clear, get specific and, and the more specific you are for your brain.

  'cause your brain is sort of like ai, it's like a, you can code it and say this is what I want. [00:11:00] Right. But you have to be specific. You have to be persistent, especially with things that. You know, like weight management is like, you have to keep going at it. It's not one and done. Like hypnosis for smoking cessation can be, but I think, so the way I coach people for a self hypnosis would be either to create a really clear vision of what you want and then have a.

  I call it the movie theater technique where you just kind of play what you're doing, like what you don't want, like the behavior you're, you're not wanting to engage in. And you play that through a couple of times and you imagine it like you're watching a screen and you're watching yourself on the screen doing whatever, like, you know.

  Snacking after dinner, like getting up, going to the cupboard, you know, eating, whatever. Right? And, and that's a pattern that the brain has gotten used to. So to interrupt that pattern, you are gonna say, well, what would I do instead? Because all the time we're like, well, I don't wanna eat after dinner. But you're not giving the, the brain [00:12:00] directions to what you want to do.

  After dinner. Right? And so what we wanna do is, is then once we play out the scene that we, we've been doing, we, reverse, like hitting rewind on the tv and then you put in the behavior you do. And you play that over and over again like three or four times, and you just keep doing that. And, and the best time for self-hypnosis is the morning, especially like if you're working on a behavior during the day.

  Because once you get to, like for instance, for night eating, once you get to the night, the train is left, the station, the, the brain is already engaged in that pattern. So you're not gonna change it in the middle of a pattern. But in the morning when you're in a relaxed state. Like athletes will practice the game in their mind ahead of time so that they get the moves in and, and their brain is already primed for that particular action.

  If you're doing that early in the morning [00:13:00] and when you have the most willpower and your brain is at its highest sort of freshest state, and you're going tonight after dinner, I'm gonna sit, watch tv, I'm gonna get up and stretch. Maybe I'll make a cup of herbal tea. See yourself doing it, seeing yourself.

  Practicing then going to bed, feeling light and aligned with myself and,

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Rita: and then so you watch yourself do it a couple of times, and then you step into the movie screen and you feel. What it would feel like to go through, like for instance, the evening of, of fasting and that feeling brain gets engaged.

  The reticular activation system gets engaged and, and that's really where the power is in the feeling brain. But it's, it's helpful to like see it and then engage another really easy and this, so I don't, I, if I wanna make a behavioral change, I will do that. Especially if it's very anchored into my day.

  But if I wanna work on [00:14:00] myself, like if I wanna improve myself, like let's say what I do is I make a gratitude list as if those things already happened.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Rita: And then I'll read it and, and this is something super simple that all of your, your listeners can do is you grab your phone, you grab the hit record, you write down the list of the things that you wanna create.

  And don't make it overwhelming. Make it simple. Don't, you know, say. You know, I'm going to quit smoking and run a

  Michelle: million mansion, you know?

  Rita: and build a yeah. Million dollar reaction. You ha your brain has to kind of buy into it. It has to be believable enough that you can go, okay, I can, I can see this. You know, you know, I mean, you can project 10 years out into the future and say, and that's when my.

  You know, Gulfstream jet will come and pick me up and take me to, you know, Greece or whatever, but, for this month, you know, I'm just going to see myself taking out the garbage after dinner and making sure that I, you know, walk and do the my healthy stuff. [00:15:00] So, so, but what, how I've slowly reiterated, you know, my life over the years.

  It, it like, and this happens like with motherhood. 'cause I'm a mother, I'm an empty nester now, but I, raised two children and even when I was trying to get pregnant, because it was hard for me to get pregnant I started late, you know, and had my daughter when I was 37 and my son when I was 41.

  And I, visualized that, I gave gratitude for that. But. So, so write a gratitude list of things that maybe are short term things that you can accomplish, but also things that you're really grateful for. Like, I'm always grateful for my health. I'm grateful for the health of my family.

  I, you know, those, those kinds of things that are priming your brain in a positive, powerful way. I'm, I'm grateful that I'm exercising and having a healthy body. All those things. I, I usually focus on physical and mental and emotional health. I focus on the spiritual, like my connection to the universe. I focus on [00:16:00] money and finance and business goals.

  You know, like I have like quadrants of things that I focus on, and I'll write them into my little list, and then I'll just simply hit record. I'll go to YouTube play a meditation thing, and I'll just slowly read. I am grateful that my body is healthy and strong. You know, I'm grateful that I have a powerful connection with my husband and we care for each other, you know, and those are like little daily reminders that remind my brain, oh yeah, you have this husband and you care for him.

  And it helps prime my brain to be aware of all of those things in my life. And I think that that really, when I don't do it, I just, our brain is in survival mode. So it's kind of a wonderful,

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Rita: it is a pause before the day to just remember who you are and what you're up to in the world. And it primes your brain in a way that makes you a little extra aware and it moves you a little [00:17:00] forward.

  And then you're gonna get into your day, you know, and it just is kind of, because we often wake up into a very negative head space. Oh, this isn't happening. And that's not happening because our, our brain is negativity biased. It is always gonna feed us negative stuff unless we work against it and say, no, no positive stuff.

  Here we go.

  Michelle: Yeah, yeah. Your mind. And that's why I want people like to hear this because sometimes we can judge ourselves for that, but that's actually like how your brain's wired.

  However, your brain also, You are able to choose also.

  Rita: yes.

  Michelle: so you can actually take it to a place you wanna go.

  But it's like when you're running, if you are running and then you look over to your side, you're gonna go in the direction that you're running or you're gonna bump into something. It's just better to look where you wanna go.

  Rita: Focus is everything where you're putting your focus is your experience of your life, right? And so I, I [00:18:00] think starting the day with. Positive and, and I don't mean positive Pollyanna-ish, like it's so beautiful and life is great, but really grounded in you and grounded in what you connect with.

  And, but just, but you're, you're just giving your brain that little extra. Focus and it's, literally chemical. You feel your body being flooded with the positive chemicals rather than cortisol and all the limiting chemicals that get flooded when we're like, it's dark outside and you know, I can't pay my bills and my husband's a jerk.

  Michelle: yeah,

  Rita: You know, so

  Michelle: yeah. I know totally. And a couple of things came to my mind actually, as you were talking about identity. Identity I feel like is really like what's going to be driving the belief, the habit, and the protection or you know, all the things that

  you have in there. So the identity is like everything.

  [00:19:00] And I remember hearing that where they have like associative disorder, a personality disorder where they have, which used to be called multiple personality disorder, where the different disorders or the different personalities come in. Then whenever they come in, a person will have certain conditions, physical conditions, such as being allergic to orange juice, for example.

  They'll get hives, another personality comes in, it's gone. They're not allergic. And the power of identifying. And then of course, in the fertility world. Women are given so many labels. They're going to their doctors, which kind of are hypnotherapist on their own, whether they're conscious of it or not. We know that with hypnotherapy, what works is having an authority figure of somebody that you really believe and trust like you put everything into. And then when a person like that will say, and, and they're, the thing is they're human and they have different opinions and they're not always [00:20:00] right. Because all of us have blind spots in all of us. Even if we're trained, up to the lazo, like we, you know, we

  know everything. We're still gonna have our human perspective. So women will come in and they'll get the infertility, diag your infertile or infertility, and that identity

  Rita: Yes.

  Michelle: stays and, and it gets really stuck.

  And I really wanna talk about that. I wanna talk about how. Your identity can impact your physical physiology.

  Rita: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It is so interesting with doctors because I think they also, and, and I'm not speaking to all doctors because doctors in a normal practice or in a normal healthcare institution I mean, in a way their brains have to sort of label you in order for them to like, oh, okay, well she's this and that.

  I remember when I got pregnant at 37. For the first time, and then I was [00:21:00] labeled as elderly

  Michelle: right, or geriatric pregnancy.

  Rita: I just thought that was so hilarious. And my, my father-in-law is a doctor and he was like, yes, you're an elderly, you know, he's British. He's like, you're an elderly. Like not. But identity is very powerful.

  And you know, something that. the physiology, I just know from behavioral change that when I work with people, we start with identity. And because we open up a new world, and I think in that wor new world and your brain, then your physical beingness comes into that because it's like for instance with smokers, I just was telling Michelle before.

  We hit record that I worked with a man yesterday who was a vaper. You know, he had been vaping, he was actually sober. He had been, he actually is an addiction specialist, and he and his wife were just married. And she just found out that she was pregnant [00:22:00] and she had actually come in to see me like three months earlier to stop vaping.

  And he was like, it's my turn now. I gotta, you know, now I'm gonna be a dad. I, I have to stop vaping. and I said to him, you know, just like you got sober, like you stepped into the sober identity, you didn't like stop. He was a heroin addict and, and an alcoholic. So, yeah. And he has been sober for 13 years and clean for 13 years, but,

  Michelle: That's a hard thing to

  Rita: oh my gosh.

  Yeah. He was telling me, you know, it was such a story, but that I was like, you, you live in this world of smoking. And you have a relationship with it. And you have a relationship with yourself, right? So, and, and that's all wrapped up in your identity as a smoker or a vaper. And, this world, I call it the house of smoking, right?

  Like you live in this house of smoking and when you're in this house. It's like in your subconscious mind, your cigarettes. I mean, and it's the same with with weight and food. [00:23:00] Your brain sees that as a relationship. it's like a friend or family, like your cigarettes or your vape is like a friend or family.

  But you know, like, or, but the buddy it's is now the bully, you know? And the bully is like, you know, get outside and smoke. and it, doesn't care about you. It doesn't care about your health. It doesn't care about your future. It's because it's dopa, genetically driven.

  Michelle: Yeah,

  just like the phones are.

  Rita: it's, the phones are ringing and it doesn't care.

  It just wants you to do what it wants you to do. So I said, in order for us to, to, to, to shift, we can't like slap your hand and say, don't smoke. You have to leave that house. You have to, it's an abusive house and you have to create a new house, like with a foundation and a structure, and you have to change, you know, and that first step is identity.

  You have to step into this, make the decision to be a non-smoker. And when you make that decision, I, and I was using for him the [00:24:00] analogy of he just got married, I said. The second you say, I do, you step into not doing marriage, but you are being a husband. And in that being, it changes your body. It changes your pain, and it changes who you are, how you breathe.

  Just you know, your connection with your wife, the electricity that you bring to the, the relationship. It, it, it, all of these things get impacted. And, and he was like, oh, so it's an expansion rather than a contraction. And I was like, exactly. So you're stepping into this new place and you're seeing the world through the eyes of a non-smoker and that changes your brain, but it also changes your body.

  And, and he was like, oh, okay. That, that, and then you, and then we talked about the structure because you know, we have the identity, which is sort of like the foundation of the house. And then the structure is the pattern or the habit, and then shifting that pattern from a [00:25:00] negative pattern to an engaged positive pattern, right?

  Like being a non-smoker and creating your non-smoking self-care structure versus trying not to smoke after breakfast, like 'cause that creates a void in your brain. But when you're being a non-smoker, waking up as a non-smoker, having your coffee as a non-smoker, then it engages your brain in the beingness and the identity.

  Michelle: right. That makes sense. So it's, it's kind of getting away from this resistant relationship with it.

  Rita: And deprivation the idea, like without the word, without creates the void in your brain. Right. Or trying not to. And, and I imagine with fertility, it's, it's exactly the same. It's that. And, and I'm fascinated to hear how you work with that because it's a. It is a negative label and it creates yeah, a very limiting belief.

  And once you kind of can break through and [00:26:00] see, I, I remember my, how my daughter, because my husband and I tried forever, forever to get pregnant. And it was serendipitous that I went to see my gynecologist. 'cause I was literally going, okay, the next step is. You know, a fertility treatment of some sort.

  And she, she, you know, did an exam and she said, you know, you are ovulating right now. If you go home and have sex with your husband and you don't get pregnant, we'll know that there's a problem, but you could go, she, you know, planted that seed in my brain. It's. You could go home and get pregnant. And I was like, alright, I'm, I'll see you later.

  And I ran home and I was like, I stopped my husband, whatever he was doing. I was like, alright. You know, but, and you know, sure enough I got pregnant. But it was like that belief that, 'cause I had been living in this very dark place and I was like, oh, okay. Like this is an opportunity. It can happen. I mean, I've been trying everything, you know, so it was powerful.

  And the same with my [00:27:00] son, because it got even harder. I, it wasn't harder, it was just different being a woman over 40 because my ovulation cycle just got shorter. And so then I, I had to get more precise, but in that education and learning more about my body. That empowered me and that gave me a different, like, oh, I'm a woman who's empowered and creating her opportunity for pregnancy rather than I'm this old woman trying to get pregnant, you know,

  Michelle: Right,

  Rita: and

  Michelle: which is, Why stories. This is one of the things that I find to be probably the most, one of the most powerful ways. To really open people's minds to own journey. Being successful is when they hear other people going through many years of struggle and then getting pregnant after 40. When they hear stories and they can see real life examples people overcoming something that they're currently in, I find that to be [00:28:00] like a really key factor, probably one of the most powerful, which is why like. together as a collective. Like memberships, people really love each other's perspectives and hearing from each other and connecting. 'cause when you, when you come at it from a collective and then see that there is this possibility, I think that that's kind of like that suggestion

  from observing.

  Wow, okay. Like this person who was going through exactly what I'm going through looked exactly like me, was. Able to after 40, and I had one really amazing story of a, a podcast guest at 46 randomly conceiving after years or spontaneously, you know, like after years and years, naturally. And she also knew, she kind of felt a call, like she felt intuitively like it was gonna be a girl.

  She almost felt her when she was meditating, which is,

  takes it to a whole other like, kind of, realm. But

  it's really fascinating. So her story, I really landed with so many people [00:29:00] because. She's even tried egg donor and it didn't work,

  and then it was just natural, like it just happened.

  Rita: Interesting. You know, I to speak to what you were talking about is the collective unconscious with groups. Something our brain does and it's just part of probably being pack animals, I don't know, but we. See the people who are ahead of us in the road and our brain will literally on a, like an osmosis level, go, okay, I'm leveling up to that, whatever that leveling up me.

  And it might be even physically. I have a friend I'll tell you a quick story. I'm 61 and my friend and I went to high school together and we recently connected at a reunion and hadn't seen her since high school and she told me. She and her husband were both professors, one at Yale, one at Harvard, like very highly educated people.

  And they were back at I think his reunion in Harvard. And she was like [00:30:00] 45. They hadn't had children, like they were just very career oriented people, so they weren't necessarily trying to have a child, but, you know, they had a romantic passion and I, and then she was. She got pregnant. She didn't even know for three or four months.

  'cause this is like a very heady woman who's in her head. And then she was like, somebody said, are you pregnant? They named their child ivy because of the Ivy League. I, I just thought that was so funny.

  Michelle: That is funny.

  Rita: but so she was 46 when she had her daughter. But I'll tell you another really quick crazy story.

  'cause I know your listeners you know, want experience, strength, and hope. I had a client. Who was, and, and my friend Tam had never been told by all her doctors, oh, this is why she had never even tried to have a baby. 'cause she was told by all her doctors, you can't have, you won't be able to conceive, you won't

  Michelle: Mm.

  Rita: children.

  And so she was like, okay. And then she, so she lived her life and like that. And then, but she got pregnant. And this other woman who was a client of mine, [00:31:00] same thing. Doctors are like, yeah, ain't gonna happen for you. So she just lived her life. She got pregnant at 53.

  Michelle: Oh yeah, I've heard, I've heard stories like that.

  Rita: Yeah,

  Michelle: amazing. Amazing.

  Rita: yeah.

  Michelle: And it was a full term.

  Rita: Oh yeah. And healthy. Healthy girl little girl. Yeah,

  Michelle: Wow.

  Amazing. I love, see, I love those stories. And then I always a lot of times I will start the conversation, especially if I have a new client or a patient that says you know, my, my time is up, or, you know, anything about their age, you know, well, I'm not getting any younger.

  And then I tell them the, do you know how old? woman in the Guinness Book of World Records was to get pregnant, and they were like, no, 58.

  Rita: Oh

  Michelle: a woman in England of all places, because England doesn't have a lot of sunlight, so you're thinking like vitamin D deficiency. And she did. She got pregnant and had a baby, and it was, it was very random,

  Rita: That is [00:32:00] crazy. I love that. Wow.

  Michelle: Yeah. And it happened in China too. And you know they don't have IVF 'cause they only can have I think one child or there's like a

  rule

  Rita: correct. right, right.

  Michelle: so it was an older couple. It was much older like, and it was just

  Rita: Interesting.

  Michelle: were not expecting That Yeah,

  Rita: is fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. So I do think the collective unconscious is very powerful. Mm-hmm.

  Michelle: yeah. Oh, for sure. And I think that that's probably one of the reasons why, you know, it takes a lot for us to do something different. And then even if we do, you know, there's innovation, the, you know, sometimes we wanna like stay in the what's comfortable and what's known. So you almost go against that innovative thought.

  It's kind of like the world is round, you know, what do you mean the world is wrong? You know?

  and and so, but we do that to ourselves in our own life, our own limiting beliefs.

  Rita: percent.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Rita: hundred percent. I love that. World is round. The world is flat. [00:33:00] Yeah.

  Michelle: Yeah, exactly. So, so yeah, I mean, there's so many things that I, I think people can do. And what are some of the things that you offer.

  Rita: I offer if people are interested in trying hypnosis, I do and, you know, are looking to get healthier. Weight management wise, I was struggling with weight. I have a free masterclass called How to Stop the Start Over Weight Struggle Cycle because we do get in a pattern of going on a diet, then going off and going on and going off and.

  Becomes a habit. So we talk about breaking through the subconscious roadblocks that are keeping you in that pattern. And we do weight loss hypnosis, so that's a great one to try out hypnosis if you're interested in that kind of thing. I will give you the link and then I also, for those of you who are.

  Have a loved one or somebody who is trying to quit smoking. I have how to quit smoking masterclass without cravings, withdrawal or weight gain. So it, it just, again, getting into how to use the mind effectively [00:34:00] to quit smoking because there's a lot of mythology around quitting smoking that just makes it seem so hard and it doesn't have to be.

  Michelle: Oh, I love that because I do have a lot of clients that do do smoke and that their husbands smoke or, you know, so and it, it really, it throws a wrench in the whole fertility journey trying to conceive, 'cause it impacts men and women.

  Rita: Right. I, I don't know that people realize a lot of time, and maybe you've educated your clients on this, but nicotine elevates your insulin, which then impacts your hormones. And so

  Michelle: weight gain too.

  Rita: it can like, and it, but the, the, the, a lot of people don't realize vaping does that too. So it's, I I think people think vaping is healthier because it doesn't smell and, you know, you aren't using something combustible, which is true.

  But it

  Michelle: But isn't it worse? Some people, I, I remember

  Rita: oh.

  Michelle: was [00:35:00] even worse 'cause of the chemicals.

  Rita: The chemicals, but also most people who vape the, the, the dis distinction between the habit of vaping and the habit of smoking. And it's, it, you know, I remember, 'cause again, I was in a prac practice way before e-cigarettes and vaping came onto the market and when they did, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be so horrible.

  Because when somebody smokes, like, let's say half a pack a day, a pack a day. There's many, many times because you can't smoke indoors for the most part. There's many times to the brain, smoking's not an option because most of what drives smoking is dopamine, not nicotine. You know, people sleep through the night, they're fine without.

  They're doses of nicotine, but the brain is dopamine driven through habit, and it will agitate the person for whatever. You know, you mentioned the ringing phone. It's like having a ringing phone. You wake up and you have the cigarette phone is ringing, and so with [00:36:00] smoking, you know, I finish a cigarette after breakfast and maybe it's not an option for a couple of hours while I'm at work, until I get to lunch or until a break or whatever.

  Vaping because you can do it from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to bed, the brain is always

  Michelle: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what happens is 99.9% of the people that I work with vape from, like they literally, it's by their bed. They vape from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed.

  Rita: You know, with very little breaks in between. And so that amount of nicotine. And the amount of, and they think they're super addicted to nicotine. No, they're not. It's the dopamine that's driving the habit. But, but the nicotine is elevating their insulin so much that that is impacting their, the balance of their hormones.

  So it does it that, and the chemicals, I don't know what the chemicals do, I'll be honest with you, but I know the elevated insulin levels, you know, are shown [00:37:00] to impact hormones, pre-diabetes, Alzheimer's, dementia. I mean, like, it's just. It's not any, in my mind, it's not any better than smoking. I mean healthier for sure.

  Michelle: Yeah. for sure. So, yeah, I think this is gonna be actually a couple people that I'm thinking about to send them to you.

  Rita: Oh, okay. Well, I, yeah, I have a program online. I have programs that are online and. They're, you know, very affordable and easy to access. So, but just, you know, if, if you are listening, if you're a male or a female and your spouse is the smoker, the one thing I would say is they, you know, the masterclass might be helpful for them because you, you can't, I get calls all the time, make my husband quit smoking.

  I'm like, sorry. He needs to actually want to stop

  Michelle: That's so true. Yes. That I, I kinda had a feeling you were gonna say that

  Rita: Yeah.

  Michelle: to come, needs to want

  Rita: Yeah. But you know, once, once men especially understand, [00:38:00] I I, you know, dunno what kind of terminology I can use on this, but you know, I've had some very famous men who come in who are real tough guys. Like, 'cause I work in LA so I work with celebrities, I work with, you know, ALIST Superstars.

  You know, some of them are like really tough guys. You are like, and they'll come in, they'll be like all macho and everything. And I'll be like, well, but you're the bitch of your cigarettes or you're the, you know, they're like, look at me, like, what? And I was like, yeah, they kind of control you and you, you just hop to it whenever they call.

  And they're like, oh yeah, you're right. And it kind of uses that. And I'm sorry if I, if you have to blurb out

  Michelle: Oh, No. It's Okay. Yeah.

  Rita: But it's the perfect terminology for what it is because we become the slave of that thing. And when, you know, when you're saying, well, it's not healthy for you, the brain doesn't care.

  But when you are like, that thing owns you and, and you don't have any say in the matter. [00:39:00] That starts to get under people's skin, that starts to bug them and, and their sense of themselves. So that's, that's a better tactic

  Michelle: Hmm. Yeah, that's true. That's actually really true.

  Rita: Than the health piece, which nobody cares about. So.

  Michelle: That's true. When it comes down to it. I mean that dopamine and that,

  Rita: Yeah. Dopamine doesn't care about your health, but it is your sense of yourself. Like going back to identity is very important. So if something is getting interfering with a positive sense of you, you're gonna wor you're gonna wanna work to, to move that thing outta the way. And it's so, it's a gr it's a great mind shifter.

  Really

  Michelle: Ooh, I like that. That's great. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This is such a great conversation. Anytime I get to talk about the mind and.

  Ask questions, Of experts like you. I love it because it's just so much fun. It's empowering. That's the cool thing

  about it. I really find that it's empowering 'cause I think that we could [00:40:00] very easily believe that we are being controlled and we have no choice in the matter.

  And to know that you do on things that I guess we considered very hard. But what I found also interesting you were saying about quitting smoking is that we. Almost buy into the belief that it's impossible

  to do.

  Rita: I, I have this saying, I say that the nicotine and tobacco industry are bankrolled by two words, addiction and withdrawal. This idea, I'm an addict and I'm helpless, and you know, it's hard. And then, and then withdraw is a very powerful word. And when we think of withdrawal, we think of heroin, withdraw, like we think of like sweating and convulsing and pain.

  But everybody, you know, I point out to people. You go to bed and you go through the night and you aren't in pain and you are withdrawing from nicotine. You know, the moment you put out a cigarette or put your vape down, you're withdrawing from nicotine. I have [00:41:00] clients who only smoke during the weekend, not on the weekends, because they go home to their wives and you know, their wives say you can't smoke around the kids, so they'll just leave their cigarettes at the office for the weekend and they're fine for the whole weekend because in their mind.

  It's not an option and it's not an option. So when it's not an option, the brain doesn't bug you for it. You're okay. You can nicotine, withdraw. Is actually really not a big deal. But what people do experience in the first couple days is blood sugar insulin reregulation, which does create brain fog, can create those feelings of hangriness.

  But if you see it as a healing process rather than a withdraw process, then it's a lot easier to really put it in a powerful place in your brain rather than a deprivational place in your brain.

  Michelle: Right. Yeah. That's such a great reframe.

  Rita: Yeah,

  Michelle: Um, and it shifts, it shifts everything.

  So, Yeah, that's it's amazing and it's empowering and I know that there's gotta be somebody listening to [00:42:00] this right now that either is struggling with it or their partners are. So I think that this, this is a great thing to know that there is a solution

  that may not be as painful as you think.

  So,

  Rita: yeah. It can be incredibly empowering. So if you're listening, I hope this gives you hope and you're way more powerful than you think you are.

  Michelle: Yes, a hundred percent. Well, thank you so much.

  Rita: Well, it was lovely. Thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed our conversation.

  Michelle: Thank you so much. R. Awesome. So let me stop recording.

Ep 364 Misconceptions I See Daily as a Fertility Acupuncturist

In this solo episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle Oravitz, fertility acupuncturist and holistic fertility coach, breaks down the most common misconceptions she encounters in her clinic. Drawing on nearly a decade of experience supporting couples on their fertility journey, Michelle sheds light on the myths that can hold people back from conceiving, from misunderstanding the fertile window and fearing healthy fats, to overdoing green juices and neglecting stress management.

You’ll learn why fertility is about more than just timing or diet, how mindset and nervous system health play a pivotal role, and why it’s essential to approach conception as a shared journey between partners. Whether you’re just beginning your fertility path or seeking to fine-tune your approach, this episode will empower you with knowledge and clarity to support your reproductive health naturally.

Key Takeaways: 

• Many women miscalculate ovulation and the fertile window, it’s not always mid-cycle.

• Healthy fats like avocado, ghee, and full-fat dairy support hormone production.

• Too much raw food and cold drinks can create a “cold womb,” affecting fertility.

• Over-focusing on “doing all the right things” can increase stress and hinder conception.

• Fertility is a shared responsibility, sperm health is just as crucial as egg health.

• Seeking professional and emotional support can make the journey smoother and less isolating.

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  ​[00:00:00]

  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Channel. I'm Michelle Orbit, a fertility acupuncturist and host of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast, and today I'm going to cover five of the most common misconceptions I see when it comes to fertility health. In my close to 10 years of practicing acupuncture and specializing in fertility, I often see many people come in.

  Speaker 2: And upon our first call we always discuss what my patients have done thus far. And here are many common misconceptions I see. And I thought about making a video because I'm sure if I see that in my practice that there's a lot of people out there that are also feeling the same way. But before we get started, make sure that you hit like and subscribe so that you don't miss any other episodes in the future when it comes to boosting your fertility health.

  Speaker 2: So stay tuned.

  Speaker 2: So one of the most [00:01:00] common misconceptions I get surround the time of ovulation and the fertile window. Many women believe that because they have a 28 day or even a 30 32 day cycle that they ovulate right in the middle. Many people also come to really trust their apps. So that is one of the most common misconceptions that I see is that just because your period is regular, that ovulation or your fertile window should be right in the middle.

  Speaker 2: And also a lot of people don't realize that they have a fertile window that happens five days before ovulation. And this is because it's not something that we're really taught in school. And a lot of people don't really know this. So this is one of the common things that I see. A lot of people do know this, but some people are just starting their fertility journey and don't really realize that not only do we not know exactly when ovulation occurs, but the fertile window happens five days before.

  Speaker 2: And that also, there are many tracking systems that they would need in order to really understand month to month [00:02:00] what their fertile window would be. And I've talked about this in many other podcasts. But this is just one aspect of what I see often. So I thought it would be important to cover this because it's just not taught enough.

  Speaker 2: Another thing is that something that is considered healthy or thought to be healthy, which is low fat diets. So this is something that has been taught a long time ago, and right now it is actually being challenged. Because having high fats of healthy fats can really support hormone production. So people have been taught for so many years to be afraid of fats, but fats are actually really supportive to your fertility.

  Speaker 2: In fact, there's studies that show that having dairy products that are whole based and not fat free or even skim tend to support fertility health. Versus skim milk or skim dairy products have been shown to have an adverse effect in supporting fertility health. So when it comes to healthy [00:03:00] fats, it's important to really find ones that are not things like trans fats or unhealthy fats that cause more inflammation.

  Speaker 2: So you wanna think about things like nuts, seeds, as long as you're not allergic to 'em. And then also full fat dairy and things like yogurt are really supportive. As long again as you're not allergic to them. And avocados are amazing and even salmon is really healthy and it's optimal to avoid farmed salmon and go for wild caught salmon.

  Speaker 2: And also cooking with coconut oil or even ghee, which is clarified butter, is really supportive. And making sure to couple that with proteins and healthy greens that are cooked and supportive starches like. Sweet potato or plantains. But most importantly, do not be afraid of fats because fats are the backbones of hormone production and they're very necessary in order to support our reproductive health.

  Speaker 2: So number three, this is another [00:04:00] misconception. That I often hear is juicing all the time. Lots of green juices, lots of smoothies, really, really eating all raw vegetables, not so great. Not that it's bad to completely have any raw vegetables at all. It's just that you might wanna consider a 2080 rule. So 20% could be raw, but 80% of your vegetable intake should be cooked.

  Speaker 2: And the reason for this is that. Too much raw, according to Chinese medicine, contributes to cold in your system. And when you have a cold womb, it is not really compatible or supportive for conception. So Chinese medicine, we often do a lot of things to warm the wound. We even have something called ion, which we do in office and.

  Speaker 2: This is safely burning a certain type of herb, and this herb creates more warmth in your womb. And the reason for this is because when you think about anything that is warm, it helps things to flow. So if [00:05:00] something's too cold, it becomes stuck, stagnant, and slower to move. And we want a lot of movement in the womb and think about blood flow, blood movement, qi movement.

  Speaker 2: We really wanna support that healthy vitality in the womb area. And so it's really important not to have too much cold. And this is also to avoid anything that is like cold drinks, ice cream or ice cold smoothies. So you might be eating like really, really healthy vegetables and fruits, but having it ice cold that.

  Speaker 2: Really impacts your digestive system and the stagnation in your stomach as well. And think about your stomach very similar to that of an oven or a stove top. It needs to be warm in order to cook the food. And this is why we have acid. So Chinese medicine, we see that. And also Ayurvedic medicine where they talk about Agni is that it's important that it has a warm environment in order to digest the food.

  Speaker 2: And so we have something called. [00:06:00] Triple burners. And so we have three different burners and one of them is our stomach, and this is one of the areas that we're cooking our food basically, so that we're supporting the whole digestive process. And I've talked a lot about this on the show, is that the digestive process is incredibly supportive and necessary in order to have a good, healthy reproductive system.

  Speaker 2: So consider a cold womb like freezing soil, and you don't wanna plant a seed in cold soil. You want something that is warm. Nourishing and supportive. So another misconception that I often find is people feel that they have to address every single thing possible. And this could be really doing all the right things.

  Speaker 2: And sometimes when you're doing all the right things and you're completely ignoring. The stress that that can cause. Then it almost erases everything that you're doing because if you're increasing the stress and not realizing that the cortisol is rising, or your nervous system is misregulated, or it's impacting your sleep [00:07:00] and causing so much stress, that stress can weigh so heavy on your reproductive health.

  Speaker 2: And this is something that I often see is ignored because many times we don't really pay attention to what are we're thinking about because that feels like something we can't really control. We feel like we can only control something that's in front of us or things that we see in our material world.

  Speaker 2: However, our state of minds are really, really important, and really, really impactful when it comes to reproductive health. Our nervous system being in fight or flight can cause a host of problems. It can impact your digestive system. Which can increase inflammation, it can impact your sleep and ability for your body to restore itself.

  Speaker 2: And it also takes you into survival and outside of a creative state of your body, which is reproduction. So it's really important to pay attention to that. And there's been studies that have shown that IVF has been more successful when women are reducing their stress loads. [00:08:00] And not only that, when you are able to do that and get into a mindfulness practice, you're going to improve your quality of life and you're gonna feel better when you need it most.

  Speaker 2: So you're gonna be able to fill your cup when you need it at a very stressful time, like the fertility journey. So one of the things that I often suggest is try to remember things that made you happy before you started your fertility journey. Some of the things that you used to do with your partner, which really brought you joy, and also things that tend to bring you into the present moment.

  Speaker 2: What are those? Maybe sit down and write a list. All the things that you used to do that you kind of felt, and this is kind of like another micro misconception that we have to put those things on hold. Think about those things and maybe bring them back to your life. So even once a day, doing something, like listening to a song that just made you happy when you were in your teenage years.

  Speaker 2: Something that really brings you back to a happy place. If you could do that at least once a day, and it could be [00:09:00] even walking, taking a walk outside or singing around the house, anything, anything that really brings you some joy. And if you start to do that little by little, you can add little breaks in your consciousness so that you're bringing yourself to a.

  Speaker 2: Of joy and who doesn't want joy. Another common misconception that I see is that it's all on the woman, and that's completely not the case. And many miscarriages happen because of the sperm quality and not just the egg quality. So it's really important to address both partner's health and make sure to go to a physician that is going to be considering the sperm health just as much as they consider the egg health.

  Speaker 2: And also know that everything that you're doing for egg quality. Your partner should be doing as well for sperm quality so that this is a partnership and this is not just one piece of the puzzle. And some of the things that you can do in order to increase both sperm and egg quality are eating healthy fats like mentioned before, [00:10:00] omega threes, lowering inflammation, nervous system reset.

  Speaker 2: Is great for both partners and also increasing antioxidants in foods. And the part about the joy could be applied to both partners as well. And lastly, the last thing that I often see is that many couples try to go through this alone and they don't really seek the proper help. And this could be even after losses where they need more emotional support.

  Speaker 2: And this can make it really difficult, and sometimes in many cases, not getting the proper support. Can make the journey longer than it needs to be. Whereas if they do get the support and not just the support, the proper support, maybe getting multiple consultations and opinions so that they know that they're working with the right person so that they're not feeling like they have to figure it out alone.

  Speaker 2: And luckily, there are a lot of great resources. Resolve is a great organization that you can take a look at. And even having a fertility coach who can guide you and your partner through the journey, because fertility coaches really understand the whole [00:11:00] process and they can shed some light on things that you might not realize.

  Speaker 2: But most importantly, really finding whoever you feel aligned with and really knowing that there is support out there and that a lot of people are going through this. There's a lot more support than people realize. So if you heard me talking about nervous system reset and you're like, what even is that?

  Speaker 2: I have a great ebook that you can find in the description called Be Calm, and I talk about how to stimulate the vagus nerve in order to regulate your nervous system and it's completely free. So definitely check it out. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you got some good information from this.

  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for tuning in today, and I'll see you next time.

Ep 363 Healing Through Mind and Body with Lauren Enright

What if your fertility journey didn’t have to feel like constant striving? What if ease, joy, and trust could actually create the space for conception to unfold naturally?

In this episode, Lauren Enright,  a mind-body fertility coach, birth doula, and former neuroscientist,  shares how to move from overthinking and perfectionism to deep embodied trust. She explains how nervous system regulation, breathwork, and mindfulness practices can awaken your body’s innate fertile energy and transform how you experience your path to motherhood.

Key Takeaways: 

• Why perfectionism and overplanning can block your natural fertile flow.

• How regulating the nervous system helps balance the yin and yang of fertility.

• The simple breathwork technique Lauren uses to activate the parasympathetic response.

• The science behind visualization and how it reprograms the mind for healing.

• How mindfulness and slowing down reconnect you to your body’s innate wisdom.
  

Guest Bio: 
Lauren Enright is an internationally sought-after mind-body fertility coach, birth doula, and expert in fertility yoga, meditation, and mindfulness. With a unique background as a former neuroscientist and science teacher, Lauren blends evidence-based understanding with spiritual insight to help women release perfectionism and overthinking on their fertility journey. Through her signature mind-body approach, she guides women to reconnect with their body’s innate wisdom, regulate their nervous systems, and awaken the fertile energy within. Her mission is to empower women to trust their intuition, break free from stress cycles, and welcome conception with ease, joy, and love.

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Join me inside The Wholesome Fertility Collective. https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewholesomefertilitycollective

Vaginal Microbiome test: https://www.fertilysis.com Use coupon code WHOLESOMEFERTILITY

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

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Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Episode number 363 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. My guest today is Lauren Enright. Lauren is an internationally sought after mind body fertility coach. Birth doula and fertility, yoga, meditation, and mindfulness expert who empowers driven women to finally shed the weight of perfectionism Over planning and overthinking, she helps them transform their fertility journey from a stressful pursuit into a joyous unfolding, reconnecting with their body's innate wisdom to unleash the fertile energy.

  Speaker: Needed to call in their baby with a unique background As a former neuroscientist and high school science teacher, coupled with her own journey through anxiety and finding healing via MINDBODY practices, Lauren offers an unparalleled blend of scientific rigor and spiritual wisdom. As you might know, that is my [00:01:00] cup of tea.

  Speaker: She intimately understands the path from disconnection to deep embodied trust. Lauren Guides accomplished women to discover a radically different approach to fertility. One that prioritizes being over relentless doing, leading not only to more joy, but also to more receptive, fertile energy. Having experienced the profound joy of motherhood firsthand with her own two children, Lauren is deeply committed to helping women break free from cycles of intergenerational trauma and achieve the pregnancy and child they've worked so hard for.

  Speaker: Her mission is to empower women to reclaim their bodies, trust their intuition, and welcome their babies with ease and love.

  [00:02:00] ​

  Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, Lauren. Hi, Michelle. Thank you.

  Michelle: So nice to meet you, and I'm very excited about you being here. I really love the fact that you have a background in both science and understanding spirituality, which is kind of like my cup of tea. So I would love for you to give us your background story, your origin story, and how you got into the work that you're doing.

  Lauren: Yeah.

  Lauren: so I would say that it was the, there's a few kind of key points in the story and so I'd say the first one was the birth of my son at, in 2016. So I had a really beautiful birth. At a midwifery center. At a birthing center, and he was my second and it was my second birth. And my first birth was at a hospital.

  Lauren: [00:03:00] And so what it gave me was this beautiful perspective of how when you give birth in a little bit more of a holistic kind of natural setting that it can lead to a very, very empowering experience. And so it was just, you know, I still remember that feeling of after my son was born, just feeling like. A fricking rockstar, like it was just so incredible and I had no idea that that was possible.

  Lauren: And so after, maybe he was about six months old, and I was thinking about going back to my job as a high school science teacher. So I, at the time I had been teaching high school science for almost a decade. And I was like, no. I'm like, I don't wanna do it. I, I want to change career paths.

  Lauren: I want to become, and at the time, I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, but I was really inspired to go into midwifery. And when I looked into what the training was gonna involve, I was not ready to go back to school for another four years at that point. And [00:04:00] so that's why becoming a birth doula became very attractive to me because it was a little bit of a less extensive training allowed for a little bit more flexibility.

  Lauren: And I really just wanted, at the end of the day to empower women to have like really, really to have the knowledge, to have the education, and to feel empowered as they went through pregnancy and birth. And so I became a birth doula first and foremost before I got into my fertility work. And I was al already a yoga teacher.

  Lauren: And so when I went into this world of like perinatal wellness then I started to specialize in prenatal yoga. So I was teaching prenatal yoga. I was a birth doula. I was teaching mom and baby yoga, and that was amazing until this thing called COVID happened.

  Lauren: And I wasn't able to, to do that work anymore because I wasn't able to go into yoga studios.

  Lauren: Yoga studios had shut down. I wasn't able to go to births because I was not allowed to be in hospitals. And so that's kind of what made me, or gave me the opportunity. I always see silver linings, so at the [00:05:00] time I was like, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna start teaching yoga online. I had never ever taught yoga online before.

  Lauren: I didn't own a mic. I didn't own a camera, but I figured it out. And from there I started offering six week online yoga series. And then that's when I got into the fertility work because I was really interested in a program that was being offered called a fertility specialist certification by a. A school in Toronto, so I'm based in Montreal and so I had done my doula training with a school called Babe Mia, and they offered this fertility specialist certification course and I was like, you know, that sounds like it's for me.

  Lauren: Like I really wanna be able to support women through all phases of this motherhood journey. So I did that, and then I started offering a fertility support group. And then I started teaching fertility yoga. And then I got into developing my MINDBODY fertility program. And so today that.

  Lauren: is the main program that I'm offering is MINDBODY Fertility Coaching to women all over the world Now.

  Michelle: I love [00:06:00] that. And I know that you also have a background neuroscience, which is so fascinating to me. I follow Dr. Joe Dispenza and he, I mean, a lot of what he does is like neuroscience and then kind of bridging that. With spirituality and how to really hack the mind. I think that that's always been a mystery for people because I think many people know deep down, either deep down or, from some of the things that they study, that yes, we can do a lot with our minds, but it always comes down to the how, like, how can you translate that into like really making a change.

  Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. And I also love Joe Dispenza's work.

  Michelle: Yeah, I was sure you did. Just based on like reading all of your background.

  Lauren: Yeah. And the, the neuroscience, it was a phase of my life where I was deeply, deeply interested in human behavior. I still am today. And the brain and I went on to pursue graduate studies, and at the time I [00:07:00] was PhD track, but I was using a protocol that involved mice. And so I was working with mice.

  Lauren: What I learned after those two years of I, I decided to stop at my master's degree and not can pursue the PhD because I realized I really just wanted to work with people and not with animals and not be in a lab in front of a microscope. And then that's what ultimately led me to to teaching science.

  Michelle: That's so interesting. So how do you relate? You know, it's interesting 'cause like my background is in architecture and now I do a lot of healing and I do acupuncture and online coaching. But like the acupuncture aspect of it, As I put the needles in, I really see sort of what I learned with the architecture in the body, and it's interesting because I feel the same way, like there's a silver lining.

  Michelle: Like even though you switch careers, you could still take what you've learned and reflect it on what you're doing today, even though it's different.

  Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I just found myself saying that to a client this morning [00:08:00] where I said, one of my gifts that I really see is that I'm able to see patterns.

  Lauren: I do see myself in the work that I do today. I kind of see myself as a detective of trying to solve this infertility or why can't, can't I get pregnant mystery or problem?

  Lauren: And I think being able to see patterns is really important because I have a lot of clients from, like I mentioned all over the world, and when you start to do this work for a while, you start to see those patterns emerge. And then I believe that that then. Helps me offer solutions to their problems because if there's a pattern, then there must be a commonality.

  Lauren: And That's also, I'd say rooted in the scientific method of like, that's what we're doing as scientists. We're, we're looking for patterns and solutions.

  Michelle: That's interesting that you say that. 'cause Chinese medicine, it's all about patterns and we look at patterns. They're basically to see what type of imbalance. So, one type of imbalance can have many different patterns that cause it. That's [00:09:00] why we don't just go after the symptom. Because a symptom can be derived from so many different patterns.

  Michelle: So it's, it's kind of interesting that you look at it that way as well. And what are some of the patterns that you've seen? Obviously, you know, this isn't kind of like a generalized thing, but maybe you can tell us some instances or stories so that some people listening might be like, oh, that sounds like me.

  Michelle: I.

  Lauren: Yeah. so my work is primarily in the realm of the mind and the body, in the way of like my. Mindset and what are people's beliefs and how are those beliefs that they may not even be consciously aware of How those are informing their thought patterns, and then how the thought patterns are impacting, you know, and I say it's a two-way highway of like thoughts.

  Lauren: Impact emotion, which impacts body, but it's not just always like a linear model. Right. And I really see it as they're all interacting. [00:10:00] And so I see. You know, so we could look at it from the perspective of what are the patterns I see in the thoughts, what are the patterns I see in the emotional body?

  Lauren: Because I do see patterns in terms of repressed emotions that people are carrying. And then I also see it as kind of archetypes of certain personality types.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Lauren: I, I tend to work with women who are perfectionists, so that's the one personality type that I'd say, you know, often. and I know just from following you in your work and reading your book, that it's, it's very similar.

  Lauren: In that, you know, the, the perfectionist personality, that's the type of client that often comes to me saying like, Lauren, like I've been able to achieve everything that I've wanted in my life through hard work, and this is the one thing that I can't make happen through hard work. And so what I'd say about that personality type is that, you know, that hard work, and I know this language would resonate with you and your audience probably is like, it's the yang, it's the doing,

  Lauren: uh, [00:11:00] and. So they're not used to, or it feels uncomfortable for them to be more in the receptive yin energy of, of surrender and of, of being.

  Michelle: Yeah, you're totally speaking my language and it's true because. It's very subtle. Like that's the difference is that I think that we've been conditioned, you know, I think it's just a conditioning because we, you know, I know growing up the people that did the most and hard work and you know, those are the people that got pats on the back and then you feel like, wow, like I'm powerful.

  Michelle: I'm able to do things. And yes, the yang has. A place, but it also you know, the yin also is necessary as well. So it's kind of like getting that combination of the two.

  Lauren: Yeah.

  Lauren: And, and they do need, and I think that's also hard for many of my clients is it we tend to, I think as a society, have this all or nothing thinking where It's one thing or [00:12:00] the other. And so I find my clients have a hard time wrapping their heads around this concept of like, well, we need both.

  Lauren: Like, yes, we need to be in action taking and doing of course, in order to be able to get pregnant. You know? And we have to also know how to. Be and open to receive and surrender, and I think that's hard to like kind of know when to employ which strategy.

  Michelle: It's true. It's true. So I know that I have like my certain ways of getting people to shift. What are some of the things that you do, because I know you mentioned also nervous system regulation and. That is definitely a big one because I think that the nervous system is such a reflection of the yin and the yang and the ability really like with a vagal tone to like shift from one to the other.

  Michelle: I think that muscle is really what it's like the muscle of balance, I call it. So I would love to get your take on that and how you work with people to get them [00:13:00] to strengthen that muscle of like shifting and balancing.

  Lauren: Right. So because I teach yoga and meditation and mindfulness, I do like to use those and breath work through the lens of yoga, which is more pranayama, which is slightly different, But I, I,

  Michelle: make a difference the breath work. A lot of like what yoga teaches helps the nervous system.

  Lauren: Yes, absolutely. Through the breath. And so I do like to teach these skills to my clients and not just teach them, but have them actually practice these skills so that they can then use them in real time in their. And so that word that you mentioned of like the muscle, I also like using that analogy because I think people can relate to, you know, if ever someone has gone to a gym to try to build muscle mass or done some form of training physically, then we can understand this idea of like, we have to do the reps.

  Lauren: And then when we do the [00:14:00] reps, that's going to help build the muscle. And so that's why I like to really encourage in my program and with my clients, that they develop a regular meditation practice and a movement practice. I like to say movement in the form of yoga because I think that a slow mindful yoga practice is a really great way to help people embody, like become embodied, Right.

  Lauren: They're not so much in their head and that they're more in their body.

  Lauren: However, that being said, I think that it's an important principle no matter what type of movement we're doing, because if somebody is doing another type of activity can still be very much in your head. So I like to just, you know, all the time be really enforcing this idea of like mindfulness, of can we be in our body as we're doing these activ.

  Lauren: So I would say that those are the skills that I'm getting people to practice, to put in their reps so that when a moment in their day comes, let's say, where they are upregulated, where they're feeling [00:15:00] agitated, where they're experiencing a spiral maybe of, of thoughts that are leading them into, you know, a dark place, right, that they have in the moment.

  Lauren: The ability to bring awareness to it.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Lauren: In the moment to be able to respond to it and to not just be, feel like they're kind of a victim of their thoughts or that they, they are their thoughts, or that it's, that's reality. Right? And then kind of wait for, you know, next week when you do go to your yoga class to then work on it.

  Lauren: Right? So it's like, it's not enough, I'd say to be, you know, just only doing yoga or doing meditation. On your yoga mat or on your meditation cushion, because we have to actually be taking those practices and then practicing, you know what? We practice on our mat, off our mat. We need to actually be able to bring those skills now into our day-to-day life so that they can serve us in the moments when we need them.

  Michelle: Yeah, that's such a great. Point because [00:16:00] that is when those things sneak up. And I think that also a great point that you made is really like looking at your thoughts and knowing that they are not you. And because it's so e, because it's in our minds, we automatically identify with them and then therefore we give them such.

  Michelle: Absolute truth and such. Faith in our thoughts and our thoughts are not really they're so shifting and changing. They're not stable. Things to put all of our faith into. And I think that the moment you become mindful, you start to become aware that you are the consciousness and the thoughts come and go and you're aware, you're able to be aware of your thoughts.

  Michelle: That means you are not your thoughts. And I think that that whole idea or feeling is only something that comes out of meditation.

  Lauren: Absolutely. And then it becomes very empowering because something that [00:17:00] a lot of my clients and I know from just knowing so intimately, you know, the, the pain and struggle that comes with infertility and, you know, struggles to get pregnant is that we feel out of control. I feel like that we're very much not in control of the situation, and so I like to offer to my clients that, well, you know, you do to a certain extent have control over the thoughts that you are thinking and, and one distinction I like to make is that sometimes those thoughts are on autopilot.

  Lauren: So those autopilot are kind of programmed reaction thoughts. Those ones we don't have control over, but what we do get to control is if we choose. To believe them or not. Or if we choose to reframe so we can notice the thought that we're having. And then when we bring awareness to it, then we get to choose, do I want to believe that thought and that story?

  Lauren: Or do I wanna actually tell a new story and start to insert a different, you know, empowering belief or a different mantra, mantra [00:18:00] or affirmation to really help me shift in my thinking?

  Michelle: Right. And that's when you're consciously reprogramming Yes, yes.

  Michelle: I love that. That's so cool. Amazing. So what are some of the things that you've seen that really kind of, shift the nervous system you were talking about like meditation. Are there things that are physically, like the, like breath work that can stimulate the vagus nerve that you're seeing that really makes a drastic change that somebody can use, like at the moment?

  Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. So I love the breath. The breath I think is the most accessible tool that we all have.

  Lauren: We are. it's free.

  Lauren: and it comes with us wherever we are.

  Lauren: We don't need any special props. We don't need a guided audio, we don't have to put in our earbuds. Right. We can, when we can develop this ability to become aware and be mindful of how we are breathing, Right. then we get to use the breath as a way to help [00:19:00] us regulate.

  Lauren: Right. And I really like to, because of the, the teacher in me, I love to take things that might seem complex and just make it really simple. I really think less is more. And so what I'd like to. I do like to teach my students and just recommend that everybody gets familiar with their breathing patterns.

  Lauren: I think It's you know, I have a line and it's like you can't change what you're not aware of.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Lauren: So awareness is always the key, the first piece. So that's why it's like, okay, so like what you breathe, like what is your inhale? Like, what is your exhale like fundamental, fundamental kind of breathing 1 0 1.

  Lauren: Where do you feel your breath? A lot of people are chest breathers. And when we breathe in the chest, this makes our diaphragm tight. And then this can lead to just being in this chronic state of that regulation. So kind of simple, simple, fundamental breathing, 1 0 1. We wanna make sure that we're breathing three dimensionally, diaphragmatic breathing, so letting the belly expand when we breathe in.

  Lauren: And we wanna be mindful of kind of [00:20:00] the, the length of our inhalation versus our exhalation. So the inhalation is linked to the sympathetic system, and then the exhalation is parasympathetic. So we either want it to be equal, equal length, inhale, exhale. Or if we're looking to downregulate, we wanna make the exhalation longer than the inhalation,

  Lauren: and then it's simple. hack. It's great because it's, it's a great hack actually for insomnia. If people wake up and sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night from a noise or something, and then I'll try to go back to sleep. And then that's what I'll do. And it almost always, I don't even remember how I fell asleep, so I know it works.

  Lauren: you are lucky that it's that easy. for me, it's not that easy to fall back asleep just by doing breath work

  Michelle: they, um, there was something also on huberman. I knew that this was something that worked. I knew that like, inhale to four, exhale to eight. And then sometimes let it out. But then another thing is while your eyes are closed, look side to side and it helps. Yeah, it really

  Lauren: yeah. And so that's [00:21:00] the other thing that I would offer for a somatic practice to help regulate the nervous system. And this is something I, I teach at every single coaching call that I do. And it's just with the eyes and it's using your peripheral vision.

  Lauren: So if you can keep your eyes straight and then not move your head and then start to open up to your peripheral gaze while at the same time feeling like the eyes are going a little bit deeper into the eye socket, that just the act of shifting into your peripheral vision in that way really also helps activate the parasympathetic response.

  Michelle: Oh, I love that. I haven't heard of that, like that specific exercise, so I love that.

  Lauren: Yeah.

  Michelle: Any other tidbits on, on parasympathetic tricks.

  Lauren: Yeah, well,

  Michelle: hearing those.

  Lauren: so the breath and the eyes, and what I would also say is, is then coming to the, just, just this is super simple and it's just slowing down.

  Michelle: Yeah,

  Lauren: I find sometimes we have resistance to [00:22:00] things that are simple.

  Michelle: yeah. This is true. as a society have this belief that in order to be worthwhile, it has to be hard and require effort.

  Lauren: And it's just, you know, and I always say, well, just notice, you know, are you talking quickly? Are you moving quickly? Even like in the car, are you like, is there a sense of urgency about like getting from point A to point B? And so you're driving in this way of like urgency. And then can we just slow down, 1%, 2%, talk a little bit slower, move a little bit slower, and, and then that really also helps just bring us back into our body and, and activate the parasympathetic yes.

  Michelle: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it sounds like it's coming back into the present moment because when we're so hyper-focused, we're thinking about the end point. We're not really focused on the moment, and when you do that. Like my, my whole idea, like my thought really about this and I guess I don't know if [00:23:00] there's like any specific proof, but in Chinese medicine are.

  Michelle: Life force vitality is something that happens obviously only in the moment. And so our energy, our thoughts really emit energy. So when we have our consciousness and our awareness in the present moment, we're actually feeding more life force vitality in that moment. It's kind of like all of our energies in this one moment portal, rather than being divided between the past and the future.

  Michelle: Now we all had moments like that in our lives where we had very important pivotal moments in our life where it was moments of joy when we had our family together, or there's some kind of like moment that was very momentous in our life. And it feels kind of surreal, but it you also find that you're so present that you feel so alive, and that's really what presence can offer you.

  Lauren: Wow. [00:24:00] Amazing. I so love that.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Lauren: Yeah.

  Lauren: 'cause I often talk about the power of the present moment to help anxious thinking. 'cause often the, the thoughts that we have that are leading to anxiety or often future based what ifs of like worst case scenario of things that will go wrong or that I am afraid of that might happen in the future.

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Lauren: And then there's the idea of like the more kind of heavier depressive thoughts being thoughts from in the past on the timeline of, you know, and then there is often emotion caught up in, you know, it's either the shame or the judgment we're we're putting on ourselves for decisions we've made in the past.

  Lauren: Either of those serve us. So it's like when we can come back to the here and now of the present moment, then we don't have to be in that thinking. But then I love your addition of that in the present moment. That's when we can access our vital life force energy and yoga, we call it prana. Prana

  Michelle: Yeah, same thing. It's the same thing, just different

  Michelle: language. And have you, have you heard of [00:25:00] He teaches all about that. And I highly recommend his, his books, both books. And then he has other supplemental, but there's like the two main ones, the Power of Now and the New Earth. I highly recommend if anybody's listening to this, check it out.

  Michelle: 'cause it's one of those life changers. Like there's some books that are just life changers and a lot of it is him really coming into it in the present moment. In this moment. And he talks about being in the present, but. A lot of teachings is really reflected in ancient teachings and kind of like Buddhism and a lot of the betas about really coming into this present moment and when you really can release yourself from that past and the future, you're creating this sense of nirvana, thisness, and this freedom of self.

  Lauren: Hmm.

  Michelle: You feel free. When you feel free. Your nervous system's just like rocking, like, enjoy. It's like in, in, it's like major, major, hyper flow.

  Lauren: I love it and [00:26:00] I can feel it in my body right now as we're having this conversation. And it's getting me really excited and I'm feeling that like high vibrational energy in my

  Lauren: body. I don't get to have these types of conversations with a lot of people in my life. So it's so fun to be like on the total same page as someone.

  Michelle: Yeah, no, I knew that we were on the same page. Even when we've, we've corresponded before and I was like, okay, when the time comes, we're gonna talk. And I knew that we're aligned just based on reading your information. So of course that's what happens when you're having aligned conversation. But also that just what you just said is how, much. Our minds respond to visualizations and sometimes that can come from cues of words. And so when your mind embodies a feeling and you really feel that, that's why visualizations, and I can't even say it's just visualization 'cause it's not. Just a vision, it's a sensory thing, and this is how we can sense [00:27:00] things in our dreams without actually having it physical.

  Michelle: So that whole aspect of our mind and experience is not just in relation to the physical. So it is something that we can conjure up within us, which means, wow, we are powerful. Like we can do so much more just by choosing that thought.

  Lauren: Yeah.

  Lauren: I, I, I love that and I always teach that the body doesn't know the difference between something that's imagined and something that is real. And then this is the power of visualization. In the mind body connection is if we can, if we're, if we have, or we have perceived limitations in our physical body, and then we can bring into our mind a visualization of that being healed or that being reconciled.

  Lauren: Then the body actually with time. And it's, I'd

  Lauren: say something that requires, you know, time

  Lauren: Although every now and then, right, [00:28:00] for somebody who just really catches on to this idea, it doesn't have to Happens at Dr. Joe Dispenza's retreats all the time. but a hundred percent what you're saying and there's signs to really back that up. There's signs that visualizations make like a huge difference in physiology. And then I love the whole like lemon visualization experiment.

  Lauren: Yes. Yeah.

  Lauren: I used to do that in my workshops just so people could have a, a lived experience of it to

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Michelle: Yeah, it's pretty wild if, people are hearing this for the first time, it's just imagining a lemon. Like you, you just go through this whole like visualization of experiencing the lemon and the sour taste going all the way in your throat and your mouth and really like getting into it. And probably about, I would say 90, not every single person has this, but like about 90% of the people in the room.

  Michelle: We'll start to salivate and then you're like, well, why are you salivating? what's the difference? It's just the thought of a lemon actually made you salivate,

  Lauren: and people are [00:29:00] probably salivating right now. Just hearing you tell the story like I am.

  Michelle: yes, it's true. And so it's this physiological response. 'cause the reason why we salivate when we have a lemon is because this, the acid's not good for the teeth.

  Michelle: It kind of like, dilutes the acid in our mouth.

  Lauren: Interesting.

  Michelle: So the thoughts, the thought of that, the fact that the thought of that can actually make a physiological response that's involuntary. 'cause you can't even tell yourself, oh, salivate and then salivate, it won't happen. So just the thought of that experience has an involuntary response, is just mind blowing.

  Lauren: So cool. Yeah, and when I'm teaching about the MINDBODY connection and just trying, I, I'd like to think that most of the world is on board today about like this being a real,

  Michelle: You'd like to think it. Yeah,

  Lauren: but

  Michelle: the, but it's like slow sometimes even with the science and the research, you know, sometimes it takes time.

  Lauren: Yeah, but I.

  Lauren: I do like to give two examples to people just to reinforce that this is, it is real, it is science. It's not just [00:30:00] some woowoo thing.

  Lauren: And I talk about it in sports. So I used to be a highly competitive swimmer growing up and in sports, visualization is a big thing. Like any high performing athlete is doing visualization before their race. and, and so that is very good proof and evidence of like the power of visualization because it helps those high performance athletes perform better when they can actually visualize themselves going through their races.

  Lauren: So that's one. And then the other one is just the placebo effect.

  Lauren: And so the fact that the placebo effect, right. And I always like to tell people that the, you know, if someone tells you that you're taking a pill. It's gonna work, but there's no active ingredient and it and then It does work. like that is the placebo effect.

  Lauren: So this is the power of our

  Lauren: minds. Yeah.

  Michelle: It's, it's like it works so well that it's a nuisance for a lot of researchers.

  Lauren: for sure.

  Michelle: Yeah. that's amazing stuff. I love everything that you're talking about and how, and I love the fact that you were talking about also like experiencing things [00:31:00] through the body and how, because I think that that.

  Michelle: Such a key way to explore emotions where it won't be as overwhelming because most of us think that we have to solve it from the mind. And you know, I'm sure you've heard this before, you can't really solve, what was it Einstein. You can't really solve something from the same state that caused the problem.

  Michelle: And so when we're trying to kind of spin our wheels and, and figure it out from the mind, and, and we're still like, you know, overwhelmed by the emotion, one of the most amazing ways to do this is through the body, like you said. And I think that that is key because it feels a lot less overwhelming.

  Lauren: Right. It feels less overwhelming.

  Lauren: I think, and then it's just. I think it's more power, powerful way, or not even powerful. Like to me it's, the only way. Like if we're not working with the body, when we're working to process emotion, then there's something [00:32:00] being missed and overlooked. And I think that, psychology, like modern psychology is definitely now onboard with that, that we can't just be doing this from a place of cognition and the mind and talk.

  Lauren: And that it, it does need to, to incorporate the felt sense of the body. And I think this is why I'm currently doing a somatic experiencing practitioner training program, and I know that it's so much in demand right now, these programs because again, I think we're just really seeing that it's, we need to be addressing the body when we're working with trauma.

  Michelle: Oh, big time. So, yeah. Yeah, totally. So I would love for, if you could share how you work with people and how people can find you.

  Lauren: Right. So I am like, how, where people can find me online in the interwebs?

  Michelle: Yeah, people. Yeah. And what programs do you

  Lauren: Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. So on Instagram, I am at Fertile from within. I do also have a website, which is a [00:33:00] different name because my original account was Breathe with Lauren. So I have two Instagram accounts, but my fertility specific one is fertile from within.

  Lauren: My website is Breathe with Lauren, and my main program that I offer? is a mind body coaching program called Fertile From Within. And I do do that as a group. I am starting my Autumn cohort next week. Uh, I do it in small groups. I love running groups because I think it is, I love being the, the guide and mentor for a group.

  Lauren: I think there's a really special energy that comes together when we're in groups. I know that not everybody is necessarily comfortable in a group setting, and I'd say that's the exact reason to do it. because.

  Michelle: They're powerful.

  Lauren: that is good for our social nervous system and to help with nervous system regulation to show up, to allow yourself to be a little bit vulnerable, a little bit uncomfortable in this scenario.

  Lauren: I always say that, you know, when it's a coaching program, it's not a support group where people are. just, I don't know, grieving [00:34:00] and in heaviness it's like definitely a higher energy kind of place of empowerment. We're gonna come here and support one another type of group. But I also do the work one-on-one.

  Lauren: So for people that are interested in, in private coaching, that's something I also walk people through the program on a one-to-one basis.

  Michelle: And just as a note this is gonna probably air a couple of like, maybe six weeks from now. So, if people were coming in a little later, they'd have another, is

  Lauren: yes, yes. Of, yeah. Yeah.

  Lauren: of course. So I do run the program like as a group twice a year, and then for when people are, so my next cohort will be in, probably starting in February. I usually give like the January is a month. To lead into it. And then I, I'll run it in February. It's a three month program and people get one-on-one coaching sessions and also group coaching sessions with me, but then they get the whole library.

  Lauren: And that's why I believe that my program is so powerful and effective for people because it is integrating the mindset. [00:35:00] So call it the fertile mindset with the emotional body piece, with the nervous system regulation piece. And I say when we bring all of these things together, it.

  Lauren: allows people to step into like the most fully fertile version of themselves.

  Lauren: And with the coaching, they don't, you know, have to worry about getting. I know sometimes with, with do it.

  Lauren: yourself courses, you get off track and there's, you know, some, we have the best intentions sometimes to finish and then we don't. So that's why I also include coaching so that people can really see the program through.

  Michelle: Awesome. Well thank you so much Lauren. I knew that we were gonna have a great conversation and we totally did. So thank you so much for coming on today. It was such a great conversation.

  Lauren: Yes, it was. I, it's like it's, it was too short. I wanna keep on talking. We'll have to do another one.

  Michelle: Yes, for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

  Lauren: Okay. And can I say one more thing?

  Lauren: I don't know if we can add it. So also something that I have for your listeners and for [00:36:00] basically anybody who's on a fertility journey and wants to try mind body practices is I have a fertility mind body fertility toolkit, and that's something that includes two fertility yoga practices, two breathing exercises, and two meditations.

  Lauren: And I offer that as a free toolkit. So I'd love to offer that.

  Lauren: to your listeners.

  Michelle: Perfect. Thank

  Lauren: you

  Lauren: so

  Lauren: much,

  Lauren: Lauren.

  Lauren: You're welcome.

  [00:37:00]

Ep 362 Could Your Uterine Lining Be Blocking Pregnancy?

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle dives into one of the most emotionally challenging topics on the fertility journey,  repeated miscarriages and failed embryo transfers. While these experiences can feel devastating, Michelle explains that they’re not always inevitable. With the right testing and deeper understanding of hidden factors like thyroid health, uterine microbiome, immune responses, and even sperm compatibility, many pregnancy losses and failed transfers can actually be prevented.

This episode sheds light on overlooked tests, lifestyle changes, and integrative approaches that can make all the difference in achieving a healthy pregnancy. If you’ve been through multiple losses or are preparing for a transfer, this conversation is filled with empowering insights and practical next steps that could change your path forward.

Key Takeaways: 

• Discover why thyroid imbalances and undiagnosed autoimmune issues can silently sabotage implantation.

• Learn how the uterine microbiome and inflammation might be the missing piece in your fertility journey.

• Find out which antioxidant-rich supplements and lifestyle shifts can boost egg and sperm quality.

• Understand how immune or clotting factors can interfere with pregnancy — and what tests can uncover them.

• Explore how emotional healing and nervous system regulation can prepare your body to receive new life.
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Join me inside The Wholesome Fertility Collective. https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewholesomefertilitycollective

Vaginal Microbiome test: https://www.fertilysis.com Use coupon code WHOLESOMEFERTILITY

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

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https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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• Transcript

  # TWF: 362

  Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Episode number 360 2 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orvi, and today I wanna talk about a topic that weighs heavily on so many hearts, repeated miscarriages and transfer failures. These are some of the most painful experiences on the fertility journey.

  In many cases, these outcomes are not inevitable because with the right testing. Many miscarriages and transfer failures can actually be prevented. There are tests that can reveal hidden factors and things that standard fertility workups may overlook. And I've seen many times where my patients have gone through so many transfers and finally pushed to get more tests done, and that changed everything.

  So if you've been through multiple losses, multiple failed transfers, or. If you are preparing for a transfer, you won't wanna miss this episode, so stay [00:01:00] tuned.

  Speaker: So when it comes to repeated miscarriages or even transfer failures, I'm going to kind of take different parts of it because I can't really take a whole thick brush around it because if it is a natural pregnancy that is not with a RT or IVF. Where the embryo is tested, and then in that case you would rule out the quality and the genetics because you're testing them.

  But if you have repeated miscarriages, that could be attributed to either genetic factors or other factors that can also impact uterine transfers. So first I'm gonna cover that there is definitely a big. [00:02:00] Aspect to natural pregnancy and miscarriages that is attributed to the egg quality and also the sperm quality.

  So it could be the genetic makeup of either the sperm or the egg. So in this case, it's really important to understand what's going on when it comes to the woman and the man. And typically this can also happen as women and men. Age, and really the mitochondria and the egg cells and the mitochondria that impact sperm quality and also the genetics can really be impacted.

  But also the mitochondria of the egg is incredibly important because an egg cell has hundreds of thousands more mitochondria, and in case you don't know what that means, the mitochondria is an organelle in the cell in each cell of the body, which produces, and it's considered the powerhouse. Of the cells.

  So it's kind of like the energy factory of the cell. And as we know, in order for new life and new growth, there [00:03:00] needs to be a lot of really efficient energy, and this is why it's important for men and women to take about at least three to four months to allow whatever changes they're making in their lifestyle.

  Diet and also eliminating as much as possible exposure to toxins, endocrine disruptors for both men and women because that can really impact also the genetic makeup of the sperm and the egg. So many things that people can do in order to support egg quality and sperm quality. The different factors are supplementation, so there are certain supplements.

  That are high in antioxidants. That's important for men and women. Coq 10 has been shown to help both men and women, so egg and sperm health, and it also supports the mitochondrial health. And then asai E has been shown to be really great 'cause it's a very potent antioxidant, and Omega threes lowers inflammation can also be very supportive.

  Acupuncture for both men [00:04:00] and women could be really, really supportive, helping both egg and sperm nervous system regulation. So that your body is not exerting too much energy, and that is one of the reasons why acupuncture can help so much is because it regulates the nervous system and it also allows the body to get into a more healing state, getting lots of good rest and also exercising, balanced, exercising.

  So not too much because too much exercise has been shown to have an adverse effect on reproductive health for both men and women. And then too little exercise and not moving enough can also cause harm. So it's important to have enough movement where your body is producing more energy but not de pleading.

  So it's kind of like getting into that sweet spot so that you're getting a good amount of energy, but not expending too much breath work is really. Important as well. So breathing exercises can really help the body produce more energy. So you're really supporting the body to create more energy and reserves.

  Now, diet is [00:05:00] incredibly important, so making sure that you're having enough proteins, fats, less of antioxidant rich vegetables and greens, berries, antioxidant rich fruits. These are all really important. And also having a lot of fiber and getting that gut health in check. So this is the aspect where we're really looking at the embryo quality.

  So going back to other things that can cause natural miscarriages. Let's talk about the thyroid. So the thyroid is incredibly important when it comes to fertility health. And most of the time, hypothyroid or hyperthyroid tends to be a little bit more common in women. And so you wanna make sure that your thyroid is functioning optimally.

  And one of the most common things that I see is that the first line of inquiry that people have is they go to their ob, and that is who they talk to first. And they have a lot of information. However, they're a little bit more generalized in women's health, and that [00:06:00] means that they're not as focused as you'd find at a reproductive endocrinologist, which is an endocrinologist and also an OB that specializes in fertility health.

  And so they look at everything when it comes to fertility health. So when a woman goes to her ob. She could range over two on TSH, which is thyroid stimulating hormone, and typically if it's under four, in the general population, it's considered normal, so that won't be really raising too much of a red flag because it's considered a normal range.

  However, an ideal amount of TSH would be two or under, and typically what they do is once they find out, especially if it's a doctor who's specialized in fertility medicine, like a reproductive endocrinologist, they will look at it. And of course, they also look at endocrinology, which is all about your hormones.

  So they will look at the TSH and say, oh, it's above and it's [00:07:00] not ideal for fertility health. So let's look further. And then they'll typically do a full thyroid panel, which includes T four, T three, reverse T three, or antibodies. And that's really to understand why the thyroid might be. Under functioning.

  And once they realize, is this an autoimmune condition like Hashimoto's, where your body's immune system is attacking your thyroid, and that can contribute to the thyroid being more inflamed and it can cause the thyroid to under function, or could it be that your thyroid is just not functioning as well?

  Or is it that your cells are not responding to the thyroid hormones? So clearly there are many different ways to look at the thyroid, and this is why it's really important to get a full thyroid panel and also to have a pair of eyes that is a lot more familiar in this specific type of field. And this could be a very quick fix.

  Many women can go on thyroid medication and easily get pregnant if that is the only issue they're they're [00:08:00] dealing with. Or they can also shift their diet if it is an autoimmune condition. Oftentimes what I do is I really address the gut. And then I suggest to remove gluten entirely because I see a lot of people do a lot better on a gluten-free diet, and some people even opt to do autoimmune paleo when they have any kind of autoimmune condition, and many people do really well on that kind of diet.

  Three things that should be avoided when it comes to hushing. Motos is gluten, soy, and corn. Between addressing that and also supporting gut health and lowering inflammation. I've seen a lot of people do really well, but always talk to your doctor because you wanna make sure to address any underlying medical conditions, and they will be the ones that are testing and they'll know what the best course of action would be.

  Other things that you might wanna look into is immune or cladding factors. Those things would be impacting both transfers or natural pregnancies. So if your body is clotting too much or not clotting enough, [00:09:00] these are clotting factors that can impact how the pregnancy plays out or if the pregnancy can sustain itself.

  So conditions such as antiphospholipid. Syndrome, thrombophilias or autoimmune conditions, which is your body attacking itself. And this can also impact how your body responds, not just to itself, but also how it responds to new life coming in, because that is actually a foreign entity. So sperm is a foreign entity for a woman's body.

  And also fertilized egg, which is an embryo, could also be seen as a foreign entity. And I've even had a patient. Where she had a high sensitivity and resistance to her husband's sperm, and it took years to figure that out with a bunch of testing, and we finally realized and figured it out. So now she's on a course of treatments that suppresses her immune system as she went into her transfer, and she's now in her third trimester, so she's doing great.

  [00:10:00] Sometimes this immune condition or immune response or high inflammation in the uterus. Can be caused by something called endometritis, which is the inflammation of the endometrial lining, which is your uterus, and many times it be addressed by a simple dose of antibiotics by the doctor. And I've had another patient that for years has been asking for this to be tested.

  Has not gotten it tested, and she got really frustrated because when she finally did get it tested, they found that she had fluid in her uterus and that she also had endometritis. She went ahead and got a course of antibiotics and recovered. And now tested it again and it was fine. And then finally did actually get pregnant with her last transfer.

  So other tests that could be done at the doctor's is an ERA, which is an endometrial receptivity analysis. This is a great test to see if your lining is receptive [00:11:00] at the time of transfer. Other tests can also look to see if there's inflammation in the uterine lining. And something else that has not been addressed as much but is starting to now is the endometrial microbiome.

  So studies show that the balance of the bacteria in the vagina and uterus. Directly impacts implantation and pregnancy success. And in the uterus there are a lot less of a variety of bacteria, so it doesn't have as many strains as the gut microbiome. So if they don't have a protective lactobacillus strain, this can actually make the uterine lining less hospitable to the embryo.

  And a lack of this strain can also cause a growth in harmful bacteria, which again, creates more inflammation and more chances of possible future miscarriages, or can contribute to unexplained infertility or uterine transfer failures. So this is one of the things that a lot of times you'll [00:12:00] find in.

  Spain, they always look into, and one of the things that I often suggest is just use a vaginal suppository because it doesn't hurt. It uses a strain that is very beneficial for the vagina and the uterine lining. And so the way I see it is why not? So, something I also wanna mention is if you get frequent uterine tract infections or frequent yeast infections, these are things you wanna look into because those are red flags for possible dysbiosis in the vagina and the uterus.

  So in that case, you could actually get this tested. I personally love something called lysis. And it's an at-home testing kit, which looks at the uterine microbiome through period blood. So there's no pricking, there's no probing. All you do is really take your period blood, send over a sample, and then they test to see through that what your microbiome looks like.

  To me, this is a game changer and it makes it [00:13:00] super easy at home. And if you're interested in finding out more, you can find the link in the description. And if you use the code wholesome fertility, you can get a discount, and I will link all of this in the comments, but I highly recommend it. It's one of the few things that I'm actually very excited about that is new and I think is really going to be one of the key factors that is often overlooked, but can be a complete game changer.

  So far, I've listed a couple of different things that you can do, but for sure look into gut health because that really makes a huge difference. I personally love. Microbiome Labs, they have a supplement called MegaSpore Biotic. But for some people that might be too strong and they might wanna go with one strain, but it's a spore based probiotic, and I found it to be tremendous for so many of my patients.

  But let's not forget emotional support. If you are going through these many losses or transfer failures, this could be extremely emotionally exhausting, and it's really [00:14:00] important to understand that this could be a very traumatic thing. And many couples don't realize that getting emotional support like therapy can really be a game changer, and it's something that they need often, and sometimes just taking a little break so that you can regroup yourself before trying another transfer.

  And getting yourself and your mind ready for it could be extremely valuable. So make sure to always have compassion with yourself and allow yourself the time to process and rebuild. And if you're finding that your doctors or your team are not really supporting or responding to you about doing tests.

  Look into getting another opinion. 'cause again, those are game changers. If you can find somebody who's really ready to uncover and look into everything, this can save you so much time and so much money. That to me, it's worth taking that little break and figuring it out before continuing and doing more rounds of transfers.

  And I'm also gonna link my membership rooted where I have. Audios and which [00:15:00] includes suggestions for uterine lining and receptivity, and also have lots of tools on how to get yourself in a better state so that you can regulate your nervous system and support your wellbeing. So thank you so much for tuning in today.

  I hope you found this information useful. I'm wishing you the best on your journey. So thank you so much and I will see you next time.

  [00:16:00]

Ep 361 The 5-Day Fertile Window Explained (And Why Hollywood Gets It Wrong) (Copy) (Copy)

In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle Oravitz,  shares the only fasting approach she recommends for those trying to conceive, and why most intermittent fasting methods can actually harm fertility. Drawing from both modern research and Ayurvedic principles, Michelle explains how to sync your eating habits with your body’s natural circadian rhythm to support balanced hormones, stable blood sugar, and optimal digestion.

She breaks down how to determine if fasting is right for you (hint: it depends on insulin resistance and PCOS type), the best time of day to eat your biggest meal, and how the ProLon fasting-mimicking diet can help restore metabolic balance without depleting your energy or fertility.

If you’ve ever wondered whether fasting could fit into your fertility journey, this episode offers a grounded, fertility-safe way to approach it.

Key Takeaways: 

• Not all fasting methods are fertility-friendly, skipping breakfast can increase stress hormones and harm reproductive balance.

• Those with insulin resistance or insulin-resistant PCOS may benefit from specific, gentle fasting approaches.

• Your largest meal should align with your body’s strongest digestion period (midday, when the sun is highest).

• Finishing dinner 2–4 hours before bed supports better sleep, hormone repair, and digestive rest.

• ProLon’s fasting-mimicking protocol can enhance insulin sensitivity and reduce stubborn weight safely.

• Always test, not guess, consult your healthcare provider before starting any fasting or supplement plan.
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Use this code and get a discount on PROLON: https://prolonlife.com/thewholesomelotus

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Episode number 360 1 of the Wholesome Fertility podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orvi, and today I'm going to be covering the only way I personally recommend fasting, and this is in the case of people who have insulin resistance or stubborn weight, and they feel more sluggish and.

  Michelle: This could be coupled with irregular cycles or PCOS, and this would be really the only way I would recommend fasting. But if you don't have those things, you still might wanna listen, because I do also talk about the timing of eating and how you can do so to improve your overall energy and help your sleep.

  Michelle: So stay tuned.

  [00:01:00]

  Michelle: So I'm going to be

  Michelle: explaining who would benefit the most from what I'm about to talk about. So stay tuned. So if you have been diagnosed with PCOS or suspect that you might have insulin resistance, or your doctors told you that you're slightly insulin resistant. Which could reflect on your reproductive health as irregular periods, feeling sluggish.

  Michelle: Oh, metabolism really, really hard to lose stubborn weight, then you might benefit from a more fertility friendly way of fasting. But before I get started, I recommend that you always speak to your doctor to make sure that you're not self diagnosing because. I've seen this happen so many times where people self-diagnose or assume that they have something and then they self-treat and it ends up sending them further back on their [00:02:00] fertility journey.

  Michelle: So I always recommend really to test and not guess. And speak to your doctors before doing anything. Even when it comes to supplements or certain diets, it's really, really important to have a team that is well qualified and can really help you. And I also wanna be really clear that this could benefit people who do have insulin resistance.

  Michelle: And types of PCOS that do have insulin resistance. Keep in mind that not all PCOS is created equal. Everybody's a little different when it comes to their expression of the type of PCOS, so you wanna make sure it's more insulin resistance, PCOS, and many times this can show up, like I mentioned as stubborn weight, acne, or irregular cycles.

  Michelle: However, sometimes people have irregular cycles because they're underweight and not nourished enough. So in that case, I would definitely not recommend doing this, but I'm also gonna mention how to eat optimally with the [00:03:00] time of day. So that aspect of it, I think will benefit everybody. So overall, I do not recommend intermittent fasting in the way that it is really.

  Michelle: Advertised out there, which is to skip breakfast. And this is because when we're first waking up, our bodies are primed to eat food. And the fact that you might not feel like eating food does not necessarily mean that it's not really something that your body needs. Sometimes people are in a habit of not eating breakfast and their bodies get used to that.

  Michelle: But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the best thing when it comes to fertility health. The body really needs that stability and the stability of blood sugar, and you wanna support your body with. A healthy amount of proteins, a healthy amount of complex carbs, and you also want to eat vegetables and a healthy amount of healthy fats.

  Michelle: Ideally, you would have a mixture of all of those in every meal because you have your proteins, you have your healthy fats, and you also have [00:04:00] the vegetables, which contain a lot of fiber. It can also help your digestion, but then also having a little bit of complex carbs or starches, but not a huge amount.

  Michelle: So that should be the smallest part on your plate. So what happens is if you're skipping meals or if you're skipping breakfast. That can actually spike your cortisol and cause more stress on the body. And these are things that we don't wanna do. You wanna actually nourish your body consistently and regularly because your body has an internal clock and rhythm that it gets used to certain habits that you're doing every day.

  Michelle: So it's important to reregulate that if you're not used to eating breakfast. Having breakfast first thing in the morning according to Ayurvedic medicine. We look at the way the sun rises and how our own bodies respond to those rhythms. So our bodies respond to the natural rhythms of life and nature.

  Michelle: And so whatever happens in nature's clock oftentimes reflects on our own body's [00:05:00] clock. And typically what happens is when the sun comes up, our bodies are primed to digest best. So it's important not to skip any meals, especially breakfast. So that you're having a good, healthy breakfast, and what I recommend is for your largest meal to be in the middle of the day when the sun is the strongest.

  Michelle: And this is because our body's internal digestif fire or Agni responds to the heat of the sun. So you have the help of nature. To support our own ability to digest and think about cooking, cooking your food. You want the fire to be as high as possible so that you can support that cooking, and that typically will be when the sun is strongest around two to 4:00 PM So this is the time where the body is the most prime to digest food, and you wanna help that digestion by chewing really well.

  Michelle: And avoiding too much water before or even during your meals. Maybe have it afterwards so that you're not diluting your digestive fluids and really being [00:06:00] mindful with your food. So typically what I will suggest if a person needs or can benefit from a little bit of fasting is to have their last meal of the day be smaller.

  Michelle: But also have it really early. And then your fasting would be really at the end of the day, a couple of hours before gonna sleep, depending on how stubborn the weight is, or if a person has insulin resistance. In those cases, they may benefit from maybe four hours before they go to sleep, but typically two to three hours would be really a general guideline.

  Michelle: And what this does is it allows the body rest from digesting. Because the digestive process could be very, very taxing and demand a lot of energy from the body. Typically, we are primed to have more energy during the day as we are slowly winding down from the day you wanna let the body rest. Typically, that will improve your sleep as well.

  Michelle: Also, allow your body to work on whatever it needs to restore your body and [00:07:00] balance hormones and everything that it does while you're sleeping. And the repair process that happens when you're sleeping will be uninterrupted and won't be competing with your digestive system. So ideally, this is what you wanna do to really restore the body, and this is going to impact really all the different processes of the body.

  Michelle: Need to support your reproductive health. So another thing I recommend, and I recommend doing this periodically, is if you do have insulin resistance, and you again, always talk to your doctor about this, but there are things like fasting mimicking diets, and I personally recommend ProLon. And what this is, is basically they have either three day or five day, one day, and what you do is you basically get these boxes and you will eat certain types of foods throughout the day.

  Michelle: And it's very, very small amount so that your body is going into autophagy and it's able to break down and fast, but you're still at the same time eating. So you're able to really function in life and not [00:08:00] feel super depleted, and you're also getting nutrients while you're doing this. So this is actually something that is recommended for a lot of people who have insulin resistant PCOS.

  Michelle: People have a lot of great benefits from this, and in clinical studies when this is done in cycles over months, it showed reduction in trunk fat, improvements in insulin related markers, and reductions in growth factor signaling linked. To metabolic aging. So the benefit is that you're not reducing foods all together, which would cause other problems.

  Michelle: You're still maintaining some kind of calorie intake, but you're also inducing more insulin sensitivity. So combining all of these and maybe doing periodic. ProLon fasting with just having a couple of hours before you go to sleep of no food, and also combining certain foods and macronutrients in a certain way that is more harmonious for your body and harmonious in a way that will also.

  Michelle: So sustain [00:09:00] sugar balance is really your best bet. So while this isn't a cure all, it could definitely be something that can benefit in the case of insulin resistance, and it could possibly get the body to a point where it's able to really manage its energy more optimally. To support equality and to support your cycles and overall reproductive health.

  Michelle: So be sure to talk to your doctor about it. And if you want, you can find a link in the description for ProLon where you can get a discount and you can also go on there and look into what it is, how it works, and really the research behind it. So thank you so much for tuning in today. I hope this was beneficial for you in some way.

  Michelle: If nothing else. Definitely take out of this that you are a circadian being. So it's really important to approach what you're doing with the sun and also the timing of your body. And this includes food, but it also includes daylight because we really are part of nature. So thank you so much for tuning in, and I will see you next time.

  [00:10:00] [00:11:00]

Ep 360 BBT Burnout? A Simpler Way to Know If You Actually Ovulated

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Rose McKenzie, fertility awareness educator and clinician trainer at Mira, to explore a simpler, smarter way to track your cycle, without the stress of daily temperature checks.

We dive into how continuous hormone monitoring can reveal what’s really happening in your body each month, why a single lab test can miss crucial shifts in your hormones, and how lifestyle factors like sleep, stress, and nutrition affect ovulation. Rose breaks down the science behind Mira’s lab-grade hormone tracking technology and shares how it’s helping women and practitioners move beyond guesswork to truly understand their cycles.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by charting, or you’re ready to move past “BBT burnout,” this conversation will help you see your hormones in a whole new way.

Key Takeaways: 

• Tired of charting every morning? Discover a stress-free way to confirm ovulation.

• Learn why LH strips only tell part of the story, and what you’re really missing.

• See how Mira’s lab-grade tech brings clarity to hormone tracking from home.

• Find out how stress, sleep, and nutrition can delay or disrupt ovulation.

• Learn why continuous data gives a clearer picture than one-time lab tests.

• Understand how your insulin sensitivity shifts across your cycle (and how that affects cravings).

• Get empowered to interpret your hormone data and take control of your fertility journey.
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Learn more about Mira and follow their socials:

https://www.miracare.com/
https://www.instagram.com/mirafertility/
https://www.facebook.com/mirafertility/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS5Z-P55EpyB-eAnwZsvOdg
https://www.tiktok.com/@mirafertility 

Study link that we spoke about: 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10421863/

Get 20% off of any MIRA products by using this link: https://shop.miracare.com/discount/WHOLESOMEFERTILITY20?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fhealthcare-experts-choice

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Join me inside The Wholesome Fertility Collective: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewholesomefertilitycollective

 
Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

• Transcript

  # TWF: 360 -Rose

  [00:00:00]

  Speaker: Welcome back to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today we're digging into the why behind our hormones, how stress, sleep, food, and timing shift ovulation, and why a single lab snapshot can miss the full picture. This episode is sponsored by Mira, a company focused on at-home hormone monitoring, because a topic is cycle data that you can actually use.

  My guest is fertility awareness educator and clinician trainer, Rose McKenzie. Today we're gonna unpack what LH Strips do and don't tell you how continuous data changes, care plans, and emerging research on insulin sensitivity across the cycle. Plus practical ways to pair numbers with body signals. If you're actively trying to conceive and want to know how to [00:01:00] really optimize your cycle, you won't wanna miss this episode.

  Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, rose. Yes. Thank you for having me. So excited to have you on. I always like to start with a little introduction. I'd love if you can introduce yourself and then talk about how you got started in working with Mira. Yes,

  Rose: well, thank you. I have to say I never thought I'd have my dream job, but here I am with my dream job.

  So I'll tell you how I got here. My background is as a fertility awareness educator. So I'm trained in two methods, simple thermal and Marquette. So I was helping women to understand what their hormones were doing what it meant so they could make decisions about their fertility. At the same time I was actually working in an er, so completely two [00:02:00] different worlds.

  And my passion, my husband works in er ah, yes. So we could share stories, but yeah, so I was really seeing how many things could be prevented if we did more prevention care, and we really helped patients understand what was happening to their bodies much, you know, earlier than when they ended up in an ear.

  And so I wanted to do more preventative care and really help empowering women to understand what their hormones were doing. And so, I pivoted and I started working at a restorative reproductive health office, which with providers who truly were looking for root causes and fixing the problems that were then leading to what we typically hear women say of long, irregular cycles, painful periods, difficulty conceiving.

  You know, weight gain, all of these kind of top of the iceberg problems that they're having that were not being addressed at the root. And so that's what we were doing in that practice. So, I love the work I was doing there, but the opportunity came up with Mira, where now I get to train providers similar to the ones I used to work with.

  And the more providers I assist, the more patients are getting [00:03:00] that really good care to again, find those root causes.

  Michelle: Yeah, it's incredibly empowering and I will say, like I have my own background, my own story of having like 12 years of irregular cycles and not really getting the answer through Western medicine.

  Which my husband is a doctor at the er, which the ER is probably like the best. Like of Western medicine, because anything that's trauma related, they're amazing. That's where they really shine. But anything that's a little more preventative, I just feel like it's better to do alternative medicine or other more natural ways to really look at the root.

  Cause and for years I went through it myself. Mm-hmm. And I had no idea what was going on. I didn't even know anything about tracking or anything. and then found a solution and, and really, I mean, to think for 12 years I went through this and thought that was gonna be my life sentence. And I think that.

  In that aspect, I feel [00:04:00] very passionate about empowering people.

  Rose: Yes.

  Michelle: To really getting that awareness of their body and of course, well you did the two other types of awareness method, right? What were the two you were, were mentioning? So,

  Rose: simple thermal is a mucus temperature based method. And then Marquette mm-hmm.

  Is urinary hormones. Temperature is optional and you can track mucus as well. And so it was really the Marquette method with being able to track women's hormones in urine. That really led me to mirror, 'cause I had some patients that were in very difficult situations, but they needed to have a very.

  Precise, understanding what their hormones were doing because you know, some of the patients I had were postpartum, but they weren't just postpartum. They had just had a micro preemie. So their babies, you know, 27 weeks gestation born and now they're postpartum, pumping, trying to navigate the nicu but also need to know if their fertility was returning.

  So situations that are difficult like that, or patients that are avoiding a pregnancy [00:05:00] because maybe they have medications that they take that cause birth defects. And in those situations they don't want to use a hormonal birth control. They want to use a natural form of avoiding a pregnancy, which is what the methods of simple thermal and Marquette can offer.

  So the majority of my patients initially were actually trying to avoid a pregnancy. And now of course in my work at Miro where I'm helping providers, I see all the different various situations, you know, you can say is it's wide ranged. We have people using the product for trying to conceive, which is a very natural you know, logical.

  Way that our monitor is used, but then all the way to women using it as they transition off of chemotherapy and transition back to having their hormones come back. So very wide range of things that hormone tracking is important for.

  Michelle: Absolutely. And typically as a provider, what I found were a lot of people coming to me with like maybe a hormonal panel that they took maybe three months ago, six months ago, or even that month, but we [00:06:00] still only have the snapshot in time.

  Mm-hmm. And what I love about Mira is that you get to see this every single month and track it and also see what it is that's happening in the body. If you're making, if, if the changes that you're making, because people hear about supplements, they hear about all these different things, but then they're like, okay, is it doing anything?

  Is it really making a difference? Sure. When you're able to actually track it from month to month to month, that's when you really feel empowered about what you're doing and. The simplicity of it, I can go on, but I'd love for you to really share what Mirror is, what the unique technology that they use.

  Typically I have people who have been following me for a while know that I'm not, like, I haven't just easily sponsored anything. And for me to actually get to the place where I'm like sponsoring it has to be some, I always knew it had to be something that I a hundred percent stand behind. Sure. And so I, as a practitioner and as [00:07:00] somebody who's working with patients.

  Really, really, really feel that what Mira can offer is incredibly valuable when it comes to fertility health. So yeah, I would love for you to share, 'cause I know they have a unique technology mm-hmm. In the way they work that's unique compared to other tracking methods mm-hmm. That are Yeah. Other

  Rose: solutions.

  Yeah. So, for those that are not familiar with Mira, it's an at-home hormone monitoring device. So you need a device and wands, then you're gonna start collecting first morning urine sample. We use first morning for two main reasons. Those that like to know why most patients are not eating and drinking throughout the night.

  So you're just having a naturally concentrated sample and it's much easier to obtain something that's becomes part of your habit. So every morning you just, you have to go to the bathroom anyway. You just collect that you're in. Yeah. And then you're gonna be testing that. So, you dip a dipstick in that urine, you cap it, you put it in the machine.

  Now while it's reading. I'll tell you about the technology. So the type [00:08:00] of technology that we use is immunofluorescent. So it's a lateral flow amino assay, which you don't need to memorize that. What you need to know is that means that as you dip that urine and the urine is wicking up the wand, it's actually picking up antibodies.

  And then the detector is a fluorescent detector. 'cause now the, the hormone particles are labeled with fluorescent and now the device is actually reading that. So this is. Completely different than anything you can get anywhere else. So, lh test strips, pregnancy tests. Think about your other solutions that you might see.

  Those are all using nano gold technology, which is a validated tool as well. But most of us can recognize what Nano gold is because you see that line darkens like a pregnancy test becomes positive, or an LH test strip. You see that line darkens. So as the line darkens, that means there's more and more hormone.

  So in nano gold is either darkening or fading of a line. And then either it's a standalone device that has a camera in it that's reading that dark or lightness or [00:09:00] some solutions actually use your smartphone to again, kind of determine how light or dark that line is. And so Muir is the only one that has implored this higher technology that's in an at-home setting, which gives us laboratory grade results.

  And so, you know, if you said, I've tried something in the past and it didn't work well for me, like let's say LH test strips, which I know you and I have talked about this before. LH test strips are tracking one hormone. And right. We want to find that one. What's supposed to happen is one dynamic change in lh, where it's, you're generally low the entire cycle, and you have this one dynamic spike.

  That's what's supposed to happen. That spike is supposed to occur over one, two, maybe three days. So it depends on how tight your surge is. If you don't have that common pattern, LH s rates can be very frustrating 'cause you can see what looks like a positive, but then it's negative and then it's positive.

  Or you can have values that look kind of positive all the time. [00:10:00] And so that's telling you something? Yes. That something's wrong. But when you see the number values on mirror, you can really identify, okay, yes, my LH is abnormally high most of the time, but I still get a change that's coordinated with the other hormones, triggering ovulation.

  So that would be something like still rising estrogen. Then the LH surge, your progesterone changes. So that will is much more than a simple LH test strip.

  Michelle: A hundred percent. So if people are listening to this and they're kind of new to the fertility journey or they're just not as familiar, the first thing that typically people will do is exactly what you said, rose.

  They go to CVS or you know, their local pharmacy and will pick up LH six or ovulation predicting kits.

  Rose: Mm-hmm.

  Michelle: And what that does is it only looks at that one hormone and just for people who are maybe not familiar with this, is that. While it could be very valuable, it only shows us [00:11:00] really one part of how the body tries to ovulate.

  What it shows basically is, is a hormone that's secreted through the pituitary. Mm-hmm. And it is, it goes into your bloodstream and, and then it's picked up by the LH stick during the time that it's supposed to signal your ovaries to ovulate, however. Sometimes it, it can work perfectly, do whatever it's gotta do, but that doesn't mean that your ovaries responded.

  Mm-hmm. We don't know for sure that you actually ovulated. So it, it could be very misleading.

  Rose: Yes.

  Michelle: And then again, like you said, sometimes you will see things are a little off maybe have certain like hormonal imbalances that are causing it to constantly spike and and try over and over again. So you, you just don't.

  See, it's like trying to look into a room, but the door is a little crack and you can see like maybe a quarter of the room. And then when you get all the different hormones all [00:12:00] together throughout like the major part of the cycle 'cause you don't have to use it Sure. The whole cycle to get a really nice picture.

  But then you can get a real nice picture of a symphony and how everything works together, all the different hormones plus the progesterone in the luteal phase, which is the phase that's after following your ovulation. And if that means either it's strong even if it's a little bit and it's not strong, that's something to obviously pay attention to.

  And to know that you actually ovulated. 'cause that's one of the ways that we can see for sure. So in that aspect, I mean that part of it, to be able to see that full picture, which typically people will get when they get the. Full hormone panel at the doctor's office once in a while, yes. But to get that month after month and after month, that's gonna be extremely valuable, but also not as stressful as BBT charting.

  'cause all you have to do is, is pee and you don't necessarily have to look [00:13:00] at the, your app, you can actually just connect it and not look at it if, if you are the kind of person that gets stressed out by the data. 'cause a lot of people do. And then of course. Me or any practitioner you're working with, somebody who's working with you, has the ability, Amira put this so seamlessly to be able to, to see and track what's happening.

  So if you're the kind of person, which I know a lot of people are, that gets stressed out by the whole like checking every single day. You don't necessarily have to do that. You just pee on the stick and go about your day and just let it kind of like track you.

  Rose: Yeah, we actually have I know some clients that they collect the urine, they even may dip the dipstick, but they don't do anything else in the process.

  Their partner can do that. They can open the app, they can sync it. You don't even have to be involved in the dipping process if you don't want, you just have to collect the urine. Collect the urine, yeah. And your partner can dip that test strip, you know, cap it, put it in the [00:14:00] machine. Again, if it's, if it's not something that is we'll say fits in your current life situation, you can still collect the data and not have to stress about what the, what It actually shows that again on the mirror dashboard, which is what clinicians see, they see the same data is what's available in the app.

  So the app. Is there for you if you want it, but if you don't want it to see it, you don't have to either. You just have to make sure they sync together. That's what makes the results available to the clinician.

  Michelle: Yeah. And you choose the clinician, of course. Mm-hmm. Anybody you're working with, you give the permission.

  You're the one that actually mm-hmm. Allows them in. So whether it's a naturopath, a dietician, acupuncturist, doctor, maybe do some doctors do that as well?

  Rose: Mm-hmm. Yep.

  Michelle: Yeah, so they're basically able to go in and check your results and, and check out your, you know, your cycle path and, and how all the different hormones rise and [00:15:00] fall.

  And so it really, it gives you a lot of. Great information.

  Rose: Yeah. I would say, you know, a, a provider said it this way. She said, I'm gonna be in the bathroom right with you. And you really, I mean, you can, as a clinician, if the, again, the patient, the user has to consent to sharing the data. They can revoke access at any point.

  The user is always in control of their information. But if you want your entire team to have access to your data, then you consent to each of them. You can have your ob, you can have your dietician, your acupuncturist. Mm-hmm. Your, there's even, we have psychiatry providers who have access to the data as well.

  So you can have an entire team surrounding you that all can see your data if it's helpful within your treatment plan with them.

  Michelle: Yeah, that's what I, that's one of the things that I absolutely love because when I first started and I had a lot of patients coming in, whether they're showing me their BBT and just, they're constantly just showing me their phones every time they come in, and now I don't have, they [00:16:00] don't have to do that, which is also.

  Yeah, I know exactly what's going on. Now when they come

  Rose: in instead, you can open up your dashboard on your computer, turn it their way and say, look, this is, you know, this is so much better than what it was last cycle. And you can do that analysis together, which I think, you know, it's so empowering for users to understand their data.

  But when you can have that collaborative approach between a clinician and yourself you know, that that is really where we can start moving mountains.

  Michelle: Oh, for sure. Now for people who don't necessarily have a practitioner or anybody else kind of helping them and they're just trying to figure it out themselves.

  Mm-hmm. How does one get started?

  Rose: Yeah, so Mira is a direct to consumer product, so you can just go on meira care.com, look at the different options, the devices, this. So no matter what situation you're in, if you're actively trying to conceive your perimenopausal, the device is the same. You just choose what hormones you want to track.

  And hopefully we're gonna put it in your show notes, your discount code that you can share with [00:17:00] everybody for that 20% off. So 20% off?

  Yeah.

  Yep. You just put it in at checkout. And and then it gets shipped to you. And then if a clinician, or if you don't have a clinician yet Mira just actually started a provider directory of all the clinicians that do have understanding of Miata, so that if you're like, you know, I, I have Michelle, she's wonderful, but now I need to find an ob, GYN, you can now search on the directory for an OB GYN that under knows and understands mirror data.

  Michelle: That's awesome. Amazing. So good. And so for people who don't really know how to read it. What are some of the resources you, you guys provide to make it where they really understand like what's happening? Because they could just look and it looks like a bunch of lines. Like what does this mean?

  Rose: Yeah. Well, so where we came from, our foundation of why we created this technology really was for women not to be, basically left outta the conversation. We wanted them to see their data, know what their data is [00:18:00] saying, instead of the disconnect between you go and get your blood drawn, you wait a couple of days, your doctor reads it and tells you it's fine. So we wanna put the patient, the user right back in the middle of that for them to see and understand their data.

  So we understand that many women don't understand what their hormones are supposed to be doing or what they generally do. But that's the, within the app, we give several things. So we give, low normal, high reading for the hormones. We show you what your data looks like compared to a group of users.

  You can see, for example, progesterone is supposed to be a bell curve After ovulation, you can click the analyze button and see your data plotted out against other users as well. And of course, if. You don't understand the data. That's where a clinician is great because they can take you from having basic understanding of the data to then saying like, this is showing me that maybe you are not building a uterine lining as well as you could be 'cause your estrogen is low.

  Or this tells me that there's a potential problem with follicular development and [00:19:00] building your lining 'cause of estrogen. And then they could help you to improve those things. So that's really where tracking is one thing, but then taking that information and making actionable changes is where again, really we make the biggest impact in women's lives.

  Because, you know, let's say you find out that your hormones are too low. That can be very devastating, but that's not the end of the story. Hormones are dynamic and they change, and as you change your lifestyle, diet supplements you start doing treatments, you can actually watch those hormones improve and change over time.

  Michelle: I can attest to that a hundred percent. And, and it, it feels it could be very alarming when somebody's seeing that things are really thrown off. It could feel like it's a life sentence, but it's not. I've seen them change. And it, you know, certain lifestyle changes, certain supplements can really make a difference.

  I mean, it's amazing to actually watch. Now that being said, it's not gonna be an overnight thing or over one month. [00:20:00] It's one of those things that it does take, you know, we're bound, I always say we're bound by the cycles. We're limited by that, like every single cycle. So you have to wait a couple of cycles for things to really reflect.

  But again, this is amazing to be able to actually monitor as a practitioner. So this is gonna make your practitioner's life much easier because to be able to actually see it and monitor it in real time makes a difference. Not only that, as a practitioner, you can, you have like certain tools on how you diagnose, but then having another layer element.

  That you're tracking also makes a difference on how, like, for me at least, how I'm going to prescribe certain supplements or possibly herbs. Mm-hmm. Based on what I'm seeing. And then it confirms even more. It just gives you more data to really assess the person.

  Rose: Yes. Yes. And I would say too, it, it helps you [00:21:00] to be motivated because when you see, you know, some of these things that we ask as a clinician, easier for us to say than do, right?

  We say, get enough sleep. Mm-hmm. And take these supplements true. Easier for us to say them, for you to do them right. But when you see that these. Very specific actions you're taking are changing how your hormones are coordinated, how within normal range they are. It really is motivating to see that like your hard work is paying off and you deserve to see that.

  So we have many. Examples, I know Michelle has them as well, of like that transformation of your data improving and changing. It's not just, like you said earlier, it's not a you know, your sentence like you're just, these are the hormones you're given. You have to deal with them. That's not true. Your hormones yes, some of them are genetic.

  We can't ignore some of that. But many things are affected by your diet, your lifestyle, [00:22:00] the way you're nourishing your body. And we can start, I've heard providers describe it as like pulling levers. When you start pulling some levers, you all, you see that downward downstream effect of what it does to your hormones.

  Just like if you start manipulating, if your thyroid is off, that affects your hormones. If your mm-hmm your adrenals are off, all of those things they're interconnected. And as we start improving all of those things, your hormones are going to respond and, and be more optional.

  Michelle: And I will say also probably like many doctors are obese, they can probably see certain patterns occur with certain conditions like thyroid disorders or you know, other types of hormonal imbalances and other practitioners can um, recognize that as well.

  So that aspect of it is really impactful as far as the diagnosis aspect.

  Rose: Yeah. And I think, you know. To summarize here, don't be discouraged by maybe poor or suboptimal values. You know, you can think of it [00:23:00] the same way as maybe you get a, a blood test back and they say it's out of range, like a cholesterol or I dunno, a blood pressure reading that's high.

  Think of that as like, a sign to you that there is work to be done, but it's not just like you're stuck with that the rest of your life. You can improve these things. It's not, you know, a. Oh no, I, you know, will have difficulty conceiving the rest of my life. That's not true. You may have some things that you have to change to overcome that current situation.

  Um mm-hmm. But this is not like hopeless situations when you have abnormal hormone patterns. To me, actually, I see it as a great opportunity that maybe previously you didn't know this was part of the, you know, problem. So think of this is like a puzzle that you're putting together, and I know you and I have talked about this before.

  You're taking something that before was kind of abstract. Like we knew we had hormones, we knew that they do things, they're important to us, but we never really got to see them. Now you're gonna actually be able to see your hormones, and it is like a symphony. There needs to be harmonious [00:24:00] interactions between the hormones and when there's not, again, I view that as an opportunity, an opportunity to improve them.

  And what a great opportunity that you have to be able to, actually take part in improving something for yourself. Like again, putting the ownership back on the person. Like, this is you, your hormones are you, and if they're not ideal, that's okay. We can work on that and improve them.

  Michelle: I love that. That's such an empowering message and the way we see it a lot of times Chinese medicine like symptoms.

  We of course treat the root cause, but all of those things are actual hints from the bodies. Mm-hmm. I mean, your body's incredible way to communicate with you. Yes. And it gives you alarms and, and those alarms are actually like blessings in disguise because. They are in fact an opportunity for you and a message for you to shift a couple of things.

  It's mm-hmm. Really your body's trying to give you those messages. Hey, a couple of tweaks need to be done. [00:25:00] But the body's amazing in the way that it really responds to those tweaks. Mm-hmm. And those little sh shifts and changes. And it does make a difference. Like, your body wants to find balance. It does.

  Yes. It naturally is designed to do that.

  Rose: Yeah, no, all you have to do, I tell people it's not as complex as you think. Oftentimes we just need to support the processes that are already in place. And you know, there's many things that we don't know are disruptive, but as soon as we learn that they're disruptive, and some people are very sensitive to certain types of disruptors and other people, and so sometimes I think people think, you know, it's unfair.

  That's such a good point. This person, you know, it doesn't affect them when they have. Like really big work deadlines that doesn't mess up their hormones and delay their cycle. But why does it do it for me? Well, everyone has different thresholds for different things, and that's part of your beauty as an, you know, a human being with your own complex interactions with things.

  And so. Instead of seeing them as a curse again, see them as an opportunity. You [00:26:00] start listening to your body, you listen to its cues, and you start working within what your body needs. And again, the body's amazing that it, it wants to be, well, it wants to have, yeah. Health, it's always

  Michelle: seeking that. Yeah.

  Rose: Always seeking that. And so sometimes we're our, our own worst enemy 'cause we are in the way. And so sometimes a hundred percent we have to break some of our sometimes bad habits to really support our body in a different way. And, so I'm very encouraged by actually this we'll say change in the tide that we're seeing.

  Patients want to know what their heart rate variability is and their sleeping patterns. Yeah. And they wanna understand their hormones. These are all metrics that you can monitor and, and assess but you also can't ignore what your body is telling you as well. Those are two different things that, again, pull together and make that puzzle.

  Michelle: And you bring up such a good point. You were talking about how certain people are more sensitive to like the, the all-nighters or the extra projects [00:27:00] that they have to do and the stress levels. Yes. And what's really cool though is by monitoring your hormones, you can actually see what travel does to you.

  Mm-hmm. Or if you're more sensitive to certain foods or you know, what really makes it worse, you can actually track that. Which I find so empowering. Yes. And then I just to kind of like put a little silver lining on that. Those people that do tend to get really sensitive to the stressors are the same people that heal a lot faster when they come into my office.

  'cause they're just a little more sensitive to their environment. Yeah. So. There's a benefit to that. There is, there's a benefit. It's just you need to know how to work yourself. Mm-hmm. So to your advantage.

  Rose: Yes, exactly. And I tell people a way to like think about that quickly is if you are someone who has had cycles that, you know, people often say my period was late around Christmas or when I was in school, when I had final exams.

  Your [00:28:00] period wasn't late actually. Your ovulation was late. You likely had delayed or suppressed. That's such chicken ovulation, right? So, and that was, you know, some people don't think about this, but your body only has one mechanism to protect you against pregnancy. That's to not ovulate. And so that's, its only kind of lever to pull when your body is like, this is not a good time to get pregnant.

  And that lever, again, can get pulled by some people pretty easily where other people, you know, have to be an actual true drought or war something. Mm-hmm. That would disrupt someone's hormones. But other people, it can be you know, a, a small change. So I'll give an example. I had a patient that she was exercising frequently.

  She then changed her job, was able to exercise even more. So now she's exercising like six days a week. That was fine. Her hormones were fine. Then she decided to intermittent fast, which we won't go into that currently, but we'll just say she was so now she's intermittent [00:29:00] fasting, exercising a lot.

  She was still fine. Her hormones were she was still having cycles. And then one, we'll say a straw that broke the camel's back was she started to she cut out cheese in her diet. And so for her, that was the last thing that the body couldn't handle, is that lack of fat now to make her hormones.

  And so each of those things wasn't. Enough to tip the scale and make her not ovulate, but once it was all three, so she was exercising a lot. She was not eating frequently, so having intermittent fasting and then she cut out fat in her diet and then she stopped ovulating, she stopped having periods.

  She's going two months without periods down. And so it's sometimes you have to think about work backwards in. Something can be very abrupt. That happened like all of a sudden stress. But other things can actually be, have been building, I like to say building like a snowball. So things that take a [00:30:00] while.

  It's true to build up into a snowball, sometimes take a while to unbuild the snowman too. Yeah, something can be very abrupt and again, you can be very responsive to a good change. Good and bad change, and some things take time to worsen, so they take time to improve as well.

  Michelle: That I, I think that that's so important because your body's incredibly forgiving.

  And I think that in some ways that forgiving can be very tricky. It's confusing because you think, oh, I can exercise six days and nothing, no problem.

  Rose: Mm-hmm.

  Michelle: I can intermittent fast, no problem. Like nothing. It's not affecting me. Like I'm fine. Yeah. So I think that it could, it could be a little, um. kind of a hidden, you know, issue that you don't even realize

  Rose: Yes.

  Michelle: Could be eventually a problem, just because your body is so forgiving until that one last thing and it's like a, it seems like a small thing, but on top of those other things, it can really make such a different shift. [00:31:00]

  Rose: Yeah, and you can blame the wrong thing.

  You're like, oh, it's because this, when really it was maybe three or four things layered on top of it. So, yeah. I like how you said the body is very forgiving generally is very forgiving. Although I have a interesting story where a woman she donated her kidney to her sister and when she did, it just stopped.

  Her periods altogether. Just done.

  Michelle: Oh, wow. That's so interesting. You know, you know how we look at the kidneys, right? In Chinese medicine?

  Rose: Yeah.

  Michelle: It's, uh, the really where the reproductive health begins and end begins. Begins.

  Rose: Mm-hmm.

  Michelle: Is it the kid? Kidneys?

  Rose: Yeah. And so for her, you know, I won't tell the whole story, but she was 46 and I like to tell women your hormones are a lot less forgiving when it's kind of.

  Your organ, your ovaries are already starting to fail. And so they're a lot less robust and resilient towards something that happens. And so this woman, who's 46, who then donates her kidney it completely shut down everything for I think three months. She had very low hormones, [00:32:00] no periods, no ovulation, and she was able to recover.

  But that event was enough to completely shut down all reproductive hormones.

  Michelle: Wow. It's, that's a so crazy interesting story. 'cause you don't think about that. You're like, oh, I have two kidneys. I could just give one. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, to save somebody's life, I think

  Rose: it's worth it. It is. Yes.

  Yes. But I think that's helpful for women to know that like, you know, surgery can be disruptive, although it can be good. Mm-hmm. And so we have to think about how are we gonna support the body going into surgery? How are we gonna support the body coming outta surgery? This can be for women who, you know, they're having endometriosis surgery to help them conceive.

  We have to think about the before and the after. Knowing that the body is in some ways gonna be put under more stress during that surgery, right? Or right after. So there's definitely things that we can do to help support ourselves in these known stressful events [00:33:00] like something like a surgery or, I tell people if you know that Christmas time is very stressful for you every year you can prepare for that.

  I mean, some things you can't, you know, you can't say no to everything or you don't wanna say no, it's, you know, but you can set things up to better support yourself. You know, I, I say that for any known stress that's coming up, my couples that are getting ready to get married, I'm like, A wedding is wonderful and beautiful.

  It's a good stress, but it is a stress. So you have to be prepared for that. Oh, true.

  Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that's so true. And so, um, yes, so if anybody is interested, I have 20% off, which Mira provided me a link so generously and it's, it actually is a nice, actually chunk of change mm-hmm.

  For the kit. So it definitely can save a lot, but I highly, highly recommend tracking your cycle with Mira if you really wanna get a more comprehensive look. [00:34:00] And also if you're working with practitioners, I mean, to me as a practitioner, knowing that I see so many different people and like to really, really get that insight, it's invaluable.

  So if you guys wanna check it out, you can find it in the episode notes and I have the link in there. And any parting words, rose or any other, other tips or things that Yeah. Golden nuggets. Yeah, golden nuggets. I will say that this love those golden nuggets.

  Rose: Yeah. You know, this is just the beginning of the journey.

  We know that. More emphasis needs to be put on research in women's health. But I will tell you from my experience, seeing what research is coming, it's so exciting to be a part of this timeframe. We're seeing, you know, looking at women's their glucose data within a cycle. We're looking at studies on how to improve PMS symptoms.

  We're seeing how to better manage PCOS or prepare for maybe symptoms you get when [00:35:00] your period happens. We're seeing research around A DHD and how women metabolize medications. And so like all of this is just currently thankfully getting a lot of attention because we know at the core you are your hormones.

  Your hormones are you, they are unique to you and they change everything about you. And so it's important for us to acknowledge that yes, we have fluctuating hormones and they matter. And what are we gonna do about those hormones? Well, the first thing is to better understand them. So body literacy.

  Yes, bring it back to yourself.

  Michelle: You did have an interesting study, actually. Can you talk about that really quick? Yeah. The, about the insulin resistance? Yeah,

  Rose: yeah, I can share about that. So the University of Toronto did a study that had 49 participants using Mira a Fitbit and A CGM all at the same time.

  So they're tracking consistent glucose measurements and their hormones at the same time. And prior to that study, they really were. The [00:36:00] research was conflicted. Some said there's association between part of the cycle and their glucose levels, and others said there wasn't. And the researchers really said the disadvantage is most of these studies were doing infrequent blood glucose levels.

  And they also did not have women tracking their cycles in a strategic way. So they were asking patients, well, how long your cycles? They'd say 30 days. Well, when was your last one? And they'd say when their last period was. So once they had a CGM, so we can really see their glucose data and mirrors, we could really tell if they're ovulating.

  When they're ovulating, what phase of the cycle. The conclusion was a very strong correlation between glucose levels and what phase of the cycle they're in. So kind of the conclusion is what we kind of already knew, but now we can say with certainty that women's hormones change how we. Bond to insulin.

  So when we have high estrogen, so as we're approaching ovulation, our insulin sensitivity is heightened or improved. It's better we can handle [00:37:00] more let's say handle our glucose better. Not to say eat a bunch of cake, but what I mean is generally women need a little bit less calories and they can keep their blood sugar within target range more often.

  And then as soon as we flip to after ovulation, now we have high progesterone levels. High progesterone decreases our insulin sensitivity, so the body is less able to manage our glucose levels as well. And you might be thinking, well, why does the body do that? Well, progesterone tends to be called the pregnancy hormone or the growth hormone because it's allowing your body to, if you were pregnant, now grow a baby.

  Your baby needs glucose to grow. And so we put a pregnant woman goes in a slightly insulin resistant state intentionally so that she can grow her baby. And so in that two week wait, after you ovulate, before you know if you're pregnant or not, the body is preparing for if you are now pregnant. And so you have that change in your insulin sensitivity.

  So you need more calories. Get cravings. Yeah, you have cravings. You [00:38:00] can't go very far in between eating. And it's actually, that's good. Like you should listen to that. Actually, women should eat more calories in their luteal phase. They should not intermittent fast, they should don't skip breakfast. All of those things to really support what the body is saying it needs.

  And this is probably the time to be more careful with things that do. Send your glucose through the roof. So this is not the time to eat sugar on an empty stomach. You really have to prioritize that protein and complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbs or liquid sugar. And yes, yeah, for sure, because it's really, you know, you're gonna send your body right into a, you're gonna go up and then you're gonna come crashing down, and then you're hungry again, and you're like, but I just ate.

  Why am I hungry again? You're really, mm-hmm. You need to manage your glucose well during that luteal phase. So it's fascinating again for this we see these actionable changes that women can do when they understand what, what phase of the cycle their body is in.

  Michelle: It's so fascinating and this is why I actually recommend [00:39:00] journaling, how you're feeling as well on top of measuring your hormones.

  'cause then you can start to understand, it's almost like biofeedback. You're getting a feedback and then you're also paying attention to your own internal senses. Yes. Which is your own internal intelligence communicating with you. So I love that. I think that that's it's just so empowering. I really, I really feel like that is.

  One of the best ways that people can get empowered on their cycles and their fertility overall.

  Rose: Yeah. I tell people if you can get your hands on A CGM, you will learn more about yourself and if you pair CGM and mirror it together, it is the best because if you can only get a CGM for the two week timeframe, then I tell people, please try to wear it a week before you ovulate, a week after you ovulate, because your body responds differently in those two phases.

  Or some people will only do the luteal phase. I'm like, well, you will respond the worst in your luteal phase. So if you wanna know, you know, if you spike your blood sugar with a sweet potato [00:40:00] versus rice, you know everyone's different. One thing will set one person off compared to the other. So you can learn that about yourself by doing a CGM and mirror.

  Michelle: Something else. I mean, I, I wonder if they can um, look at HRV as well, you know, heart rate variability. Yeah. You know, HeartMath heart brain coherence because in Chinese medicine, the heart really has, plays an important role on Yes. getting your period and opening the uterus, really that connection.

  So I'd be curious. I'd be curious. That would be an interesting study. I don't know if you know, yeah, there's, there's, that would be something, some,

  Rose: there's some known information around that, but I would say more effort needs to be put into that. We know how women like handle stress changes from one cycle to the next.

  So I've, I've heard yeah. You know, it it be said. So Alicia Vidi runs a program called In the Flow, and she's the one that created the cycle sinking method. And, and she talks about like, you know, if you're gonna ask for a bonus or ask for a raise or try to get a job or speak in front of a bunch of people, you really want that leading up to or during ovulation.[00:41:00]

  Michelle: True. And because

  Rose: that's, that's

  Michelle: the summer, the bloom. Yes. Yes,

  Rose: exactly. And so, you know, there's, we have things written into our bodies that again, we, we really need to get in tune with. So.

  Michelle: Not to keep going on with this. Yeah, sure. But it makes me think about other things. I remember seeing a documentary about and they had like pictures of women's faces throughout their cycle and they become more attractive.

  Like the features become Yes. More attractive around ovulation. Yeah. And they had these like snapshots and you can see almost like they're, they're the sides of their mouth go up. Like they start looking like they're smiling, like mm-hmm. It's really fascinating. Yeah.

  Rose: Related to estrogen. Estrogen brings more blood flow, and so women's faces will actually change color when you're getting close to ovulation.

  Wow. Which is fascinating. You know, again, so fascinating. These things that we've known at least. Research has known but it has not really been brought that forefront for us. [00:42:00]

  Michelle: For sure. Well, this was such a fascinating conversation. I knew we were gonna have a good conversation. Yes. We've spoken before, rose and I, I think that we uh, definitely can nerd out about this.

  So, so thank you so much for coming on today. It was such a, such a great conversation.

  Rose: Thank you. Happy to be here. And again, don't guess just test, don't guess what your hormones are doing. Yeah. Just figure it out and, and find a clinician who truly listens to you and understands your hormones as well.

  Michelle: Yes. Great advice. Thank you so much, rose.

  Rose: Yes, thank you.

  [00:43:00] [00:44:00]

Ep 359 The 5-Day Fertile Window Explained (And Why Hollywood Gets It Wrong)

In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, host Michelle Oravitz breaks down one of the most common fertility myths, the belief that pregnancy can only occur on the exact day of ovulation. Popular culture and even many fertility apps often portray conception as a single-day event, but science tells a different story. The truth is, sperm can survive in the reproductive tract for up to five days, creating a much wider fertile window than most people realize.

Michelle explains what the 5-day fertile window really means, why the “Day 14 ovulation” rule is misleading, and how women can better understand their unique cycles. She also shares practical guidance on tracking ovulation accurately using basal body temperature (BBT) charting, cervical mucus observation, LH strips, and hormone-monitoring devices.

Key Takeaways: 

• How cervical mucus supports sperm survival and why hydration is essential.

• The impact of irregular cycles caused by thyroid health, PCOS, stress, or travel.

• Why fertility apps often fail to predict ovulation accurately.

• The best timing and frequency of intercourse to increase the chances of conception.

• How intercourse during the luteal phase may help prime the immune system to receive an em
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

MIRA at home hormone testing: https://mira-fertility.pxf.io/Gm4AXV Use coupon code: WHOLESOMEFERTILITY FOR 15% OFF!

Tempdrop Fertility Monitor – discounted link: http://www.tempdrop.com/discount/AFWHOLESOMELOTUS 

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

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Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: Let's start with the basics. Ovulation is an event in a woman's menstrual cycle when the egg is released from the follicle in the ovaries, and [00:03:00] that egg usually only lives for 12 to 24 hours. Sperm, however, it can survive in the reproductive tract for up to five days. Now, this is only given if it is within the fertile window because sperm cannot survive if it's outside of the fertile window because the pH is actually very unfriendly to the sperm.

  Michelle: So given that there is ample cervical mucus that protects the sperm and the sperm can survive five days, and this is why usually we refer to the fertile window as a five day window. Those five days are actually five days leading up to ovulation, and because the sperm can wait and survive those five days, this is still considered the fertile window because they can survive and be waiting for the moment of ovulation.

  Michelle: That's why having intercourse. On the days leading up can actually amplify your chances of conceiving. But most people who don't really know this believe that you can only conceive during [00:04:00] ovulation. And we see this time and time again on movies. They always show a woman looking at the time, checking her temperature and saying, okay, this is it.

  Michelle: As if that window is like a half hour window, but that's really not the case. So based on this, people who are just trying to conceive for the first time and are having issues. Trying to conceive might not realize this until they go down the rabbit hole and really learn what is really happening in their body.

  Michelle: So no, you don't just get pregnant on that one day of ovulation. You have a fertile window, which means that if you have sex within that window, there is that potential to conceive. Another myth that often occurs, and I see this a lot. And this is really based on the algorithm that people see on apps is that ovulation is always on day 14.

  Michelle: So given that a person might have what's called a textbook cycle, which is a perfect 28 days consistently, they might assume or think that they're probably [00:05:00] ovulating right in the middle. But that's not the case, and it's actually a very, very common misconception. The reality is, is that. Every woman is different, and just because she has a 28 day cycle does not mean that she's ovulating right in the center.

  Michelle: And this is why it's important to check, which I'll be going over soon, to understand really where in the cycle is a person ovulating. Because once you know and confirm the exact date of ovulation and check this for a couple of months so that you can see if there's inconsistencies or shifts within months, or do you start to find a pattern, and with that pattern, you'll start to understand more or less what your fertile window is.

  Michelle: And so this leads into another myth that apps can predict ovulation. And this isn't true because what the apps do is base their data on algorithms. So they either see an algorithm of a huge general prediction, or they can assess an algorithm based on. Your [00:06:00] input of when you are having your period, but that being the case, unless you're putting in the exact time of ovulation that you actually confirmed, it doesn't really know what to base the algorithm on.

  Michelle: So many times it will assume. That ovulation occurs on maybe day 14, but that's not necessarily true unless you actually test it. So there are a couple of tools that you can actually do at home to track when you're actually ovulating, and this can take up to two months to really know your fertile window because you won't know your fertile window until you know the day of ovulation.

  Michelle: So if you do BBT, which is basal body temperature, and you check your temperature every single day, early in the morning before you get out of bed, and ideally you wanna sleep for three hours before checking. So three solid hours of sleep, meaning if you didn't go to the bathroom and then went back to bed and fell back asleep and only suffer an hour and then checked.

  Michelle: Now, if that is the case once in a [00:07:00] while, that's okay. Don't let that. Stop you from checking. However, just keep in mind that the most consistent data you're gonna get is if you sleep for three solid hours. At night before you wake up and you don't get out of bed before checking your temperature. Another really good, impactful habit and practice is to use the digital thermometer and put it in your mouth a few minutes before actually turning it on.

  Michelle: Some say even wait 10 minutes. But even if you have five minutes, it's still gonna be better than just turning it on right away. And what this does is it gives you a little more of an accurate reading, and then what you can do is some apps actually have calendars that you can input this information. And what it'll do is give you like a little bit more of a chart.

  Michelle: And you can also print out a bunch of charts online and just write it in. So what over time happens is that in the follicular phase, which is the first part of the cycle before ovulation, day one would be the time that you're bleeding your first day of bleed for your [00:08:00] period. So from day one, up until ovulation, it's considered the follicular phase.

  Michelle: And this is when the follicle starts to grow and get ready. And then estrogen and FSH rise. And then LH starts to surge right before ovulation. To trigger ovulation. And so typically you'll find with BBT charting is that the follicular phase is what we call in Chinese medicine is more of the yin phase of the cycle.

  Michelle: So the yin is more of a cooling aspect of the body, and what you'll find is that the temperature of the BBT in a normal cycle will show lower than the luteal phase, which is after ovulation. So typically what you're looking for is about 97 degrees in the follicular phase, and then. You'll see that it drops temporarily right as you're ovulating, and then it rises and it stays around 90 eights in the luteal phase.

  Michelle: So typically you don't want it to go lower. And if you start to see that in the follicular [00:09:00] phase, you're going down to like about 90 sixes and the luteal phase. Maybe it's not reaching, maybe it is going up, but like about 90 sevens a little bit, 98. You might wanna look into your thyroid because that is a very common reason for why people's temperature is a little too low, and that can really shift a lot of things when trying to conceive.

  Michelle: So if that's the case, I would definitely speak to your doctor or an endocrinologist to see if your thyroid is working optimally. But regardless, it will tell you when you're ovulating based on that temperature rise. And so during that time, it's good to have maybe one or two readings for two different months.

  Michelle: To see if you have a pattern repeating. Some people naturally have a little bit of an irregular cycle, and that could be normal for some people, and they might alternate from one month to the next being a little different. I've seen some people have maybe like 27 days and then 29 days, and it kind of alternates.

  Michelle: As long as the alternation is not [00:10:00] too drastic, it could be very normal for you. So this is why it's important to really collect the data consistently and really go from month to month If you do see a pattern for yourself. Once that happens, then you can start to assess. If I know that I'm ovulating, say 16 of every single cycle, what does that mean?

  Michelle: It means that five days before that should be your fertile window. You might also wanna start checking for cervical mucus around the fertile window. So you'll find that you'll start to have an increase in cervical mucus around that time. So when you wipe, you just wanna pay attention to it. And oftentimes when I work with people that have never really thought about doing this and have never learned how to really understand their body literacy when it comes to their cycle, may not notice the.

  Michelle: Cervical mucus at first, but then eventually once I mention it, they do start to notice shifts and changes. And a huge, huge thing to mention if you do have very low cervical mucus is make sure that you are hydrated because cervical mucus. [00:11:00] It consists of mostly water, and that can really make such a huge difference.

  Michelle: I had one patient who worked in healthcare. She barely drank any water, and I told her, this is a must. You really gotta start drinking more water. And once she started hydrating for a month or two, she saw an increase in cervical mucus. So something as simple as that can make such a drastic change. So you could buy an LH stick or an OPK.

  Michelle: Now, I would say before even doing that or really relying on that. Make sure you are in fact ovulating. So A BBT chart can show you that you're ovulating and an LH six or OPK will only show that your brain is trying to make the ovaries ovulate, but it does not confirm that ovulation happened. Another thing that you can do is something like Mira, which is gonna look at a number of different hormones in your cycle.

  Michelle: And I would definitely suggest looking into that, and that is really one of my favorite kits to suggest for my patients. And many times you're a [00:12:00] practitioner, they have a practitioner account. Who can actually access all your data. So it's really super helpful. It makes it a lot easier 'cause you're just testing in the morning with urine and it's super simple and easy to do and I'll have information in my episode notes if, if you guys wanna discount for that.

  Michelle: There are other things that you can use. Things like temp drop, which basically checks your skin temperature or even aura rings do the same. And they can also see based on your records and your tracking, what your fertile window is. Now, just like with BBT, it takes about a month or so for some of those tracking devices to really understand your cycle, the ones that link to apps.

  Michelle: So keep that in mind that it's not something that happens right away. It does take a little time. But once you do understand that you're gonna have a lot clearer of a picture on when your fertile window is. Now, in some cases, people have very irregular cycles and they don't really have a pattern. And this can be in cases with people with thyroid conditions, [00:13:00] PCOS, or even stress.

  Michelle: And sometimes travel can also throw off a cycle because. When you're jet lagged and your circadian rhythm is off, it can impact your menstrual cycle as well. So those are things to keep in mind. Now that being said, I used to have extremely irregular periods, and it would be maybe two, three month cycles, which means I didn't get my period for three months in a row, and I had this going on for 12 years, and I resolved it with acupuncture, lowering stress.

  Michelle: And diet so it can be done. And most of the time I find that with irregular cycles, acupuncture or natural means are actually a better way than just going on the birth control pill where you're not really impacting your cycle and getting to the root of things. So when should you be having intercourse and how often?

  Michelle: So research shows that having intercourse every other day from five days before you ovulate is the best time. So I would definitely say do that, but then also. So I would suggest the day [00:14:00] before, the day of and the day after ovulation, and I would also continue it into the luteal phase because research shows that women who have more intercourse, and especially in the luteal phase, it can lower their immune system and prep it.

  Michelle: So that it's able to receive a foreign body like sperm or a fertilized egg, which oftentimes a woman's immune system see sperm as a foreign object to protect itself from. So you wanna prime the woman's body to recognize that this is normal and it's okay. So it adapts to be able to receive that new life.

  Michelle: Now all this being said, I know that sometimes tracking can be very stress. And I would definitely say if you are the type of person that gets really stressed out with data, then maybe for a little while you might wanna avoid over checking. Sometimes I have people doing the Mira app and they just check around the time that they're ovulating, like leading up.

  Michelle: And then afterwards, and you might just wanna do this for a few months and see what it says. But if [00:15:00] it's causing you more distress, then I would say you might wanna take a pause and really take care of your mindset, because all of this information and data collecting could be very overwhelming for so many couples.

  Michelle: So ultimately, you want to meet yourself where you're at and what you can realistically do without increasing stress. So in this episode, I really wanted to bring more clarity and information. Around the fertile window. And if you wanna dive deeper into understanding your menstrual cycle, I've created a free ebook called The Best Kept Secrets to Harming Your Moon Cycle, and you can find a link in the episode notes.

  Michelle: So thank you so much for joining me today, and I'm wishing you flow and ease on your fertility journey. [00:16:00] [00:17:00]

Ep 358 Bed Rest or Movement After Transfer? Surprising IVF Insights

Should you really stay in bed after an embryo transfer? For years, many fertility clinics recommended 24–48 hours of strict bed rest, but research now reveals surprising insights: movement may actually support better outcomes.

In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I explore what the latest studies say about bed rest versus gentle movement after transfer. I also share holistic, evidence-based practices from both Western research and Traditional Chinese Medicine that can help create the most supportive environment for implantation.

You’ll learn about the role of acupuncture before and after transfer, nourishing foods and supplements that enhance blood flow and uterine receptivity, and mind-body practices, from meditation to laughter therapy, that ease stress and boost outcomes.

Whether you’re preparing for an IVF cycle or supporting someone on this journey, this episode is packed with practical, compassionate guidance to empower you with knowledge and ease during this important stage.

Key Takeaways: 

• Extended bed rest after embryo transfer may not improve success rates and could reduce them.

• Gentle movement supports circulation and aligns with TCM principles for reducing stagnation.

• Acupuncture before and after transfer can significantly enhance implantation success.

• Warm, nourishing foods like bone broth and circulation-supporting foods like beets are beneficial.

• Supplements such as CoQ10, vitamin E, omega-3s, and L-arginine may support uterine health (always consult your clinic).

• Stress management, meditation, time off work, and even laughter therapy can positively impact outcomes.
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Episode number 3 58 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast Should you really go on bedrest for 24 to 48 hours after an embryo transfer. This is a question I hear all the time, and it's something many clinics have traditionally recommended, but research now shows that extended bedrest doesn't necessarily improve success rates, and in some cases may even lower them.

  Michelle: So welcome to the Wholesome Fertility podcast. I'm your host Michelle Orbit, and in today's episode we'll explore what the studies actually say about bedrest after transfer, and I'll share holistic evidence-based ways you can prepare your body and mind to create the most welcoming and environment for implantation.

  Michelle: So stay tuned.

  Michelle: [00:01:00] So for years, clinics have been saying that after an embryo transfer, people should go on bedrest for 24 to 48 hours and basically not do much. And the idea was that laying flat is going to be optimal for helping the embryo stick. But here's what the research shows. In some cases they say that it makes absolutely no difference, and in other cases it actually shows that people who are a little more active, and we're not talking about.

  Michelle: Exercise, just moving around, have a better chance of a successful embryo transfer than those who are on bedrest. And some clinics do not advise to rest for 24 to 48 hours after transfer. In fact, they believe that if you move around, you're gonna create more circulation and it's better for the outcome of the transfer.

  Michelle: So from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective. It does make [00:02:00] sense that if you're not moving around a lot, you're gonna create more stagnation in the body and you wanna create more blood flow in order to support the new embryo growth and implantation. But ultimately, I do suggest that you speak to your doctor because every doctor has a different theory on this.

  Michelle: And then what you could do is bring this to their attention if it is something that you're concerned about, and then ask them what their thought is and if there's any studies that back up what they're suggesting. But I also wanna cover a couple of different things that you might wanna look into when you are preparing your body for transfer and what you could do to really support the outcome.

  Michelle: So I am a licensed acupuncturist and I specialize in fertility health, and I frequently support women who are going through the IVF journey. And one of the biggest things that I say is more timed and is really, really vital when it comes to transfers is getting acupuncture before and after the transfer.

  Michelle: There's a protocol that has been shown to really help the outcome of the [00:03:00] transfers, and I personally have seen incredible success with it. But even way before that, I would say even a couple of months, it's really important to get acupuncturist so that you can increase the blood flow to the uterus and do this regularly so that it's not just a one-off acupuncture session.

  Michelle: And oftentimes I suggest for people to get maybe twice a week. Before and leading up to the transfer. And I often suggest on warm, nourishing foods before and after the transfer. So things like bone broth is really supportive. And then before that you can do beets, which are very high in nitric oxide and they support blood circulation.

  Michelle: And that is really something that you wanna do so that you can support more of that blood flow for that healthy uterine lining. And from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective. Warming foods such as bone broth and soups and stews are very supportive to a warm environment in the womb, which from A TCM perspective, supports receptivity.

  Michelle: And some of the supplements I [00:04:00] often suggest are continuing coq 10, 'cause coq 10 is also really good for egg quality. It's also amazing for uterine lining. Vitamin E is really great. Omega threes your prenatal vitamins and L-arginine. Now, all of these things really depend on the clinic. Sometimes the clinic has their own method and protocols, and they prefer that you don't take certain supplements.

  Michelle: So I would always make sure that you are on the same page with your doctor, and ultimately, I highly suggest. Working on your nervous system. So doing things like meditation and really working on the stress levels. And oftentimes, a lot of my patients have full-time jobs while they're going through this, and many times it's in secret.

  Michelle: They don't really want their work to know what's going on in their personal life. So I often suggest taking that week off before transfer, really getting your body prepared so that you can mentally get a little break and a buffer from any other stressors and what's been shown to. Also improve outcomes [00:05:00] in embryo transfers is laughter therapy.

  Michelle: So there was a study done and it was clown therapy, and this clown would come in and make people laugh after their embryo transfers. And the people that got exposed to the clowns and were laughing had an increased rate of pregnancies versus the group that did not have that. So I often suggest watch comedies and if nothing else, it really takes out the stress of the whole time and the two week wait.

  Michelle: So it's kind of good as one other way to possibly get your mind off things, although sometimes it's impossible. One of my dear friends and colleagues, Monica, is the author of the IVF Planner and in there she has some adult coloring pages just to get your mind off the two week wave. So it's not often very possible to get your mind off it.

  Michelle: Completely. But there are certain things that you can do to keep your mind occupied, and one of the ways to do this is really getting your hands busy. So any kind of craft or [00:06:00] drawing or coloring or even taking walks can really shift your perspective because when you're changing your physiology or doing something different, it can help take the edge off from the two week weight.

  Michelle: I do also offer hypnosis audios, and one of them is for uterine lining and receptivity. So a lot of the different. Audios can shift and change depending on where you are in your journey or if you're going through the IVF journey, and this is in my membership, which includes lots of hypnosis audios, and you can find that in the episode notes.

  Michelle: But all in all, really giving yourself that TLC, that time and support, possibly having a community around you or people that you can talk to. During this time, because I know that it could be really difficult for some people and some people are going through this after loss. So it's really, really important to have self-compassion and have tools ready so that when you do need something, you're able to readily access it.

  Michelle: So I hope you got a lot of good information from this episode [00:07:00] because it is a very frequently asked topic, and that's why I thought about speaking specifically to embryo transfers and how you can really support that. In your journey. So thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll see you next time. [00:08:00]

Ep 357 5 Surprising Fertility Secrets That Could Change Everything!

In this solo episode,  I’m sharing five surprising fertility secrets that most people don’t know, but should! These insights may completely shift how you view your reproductive health and help you uncover areas that could be holding you back.

From the surprising link between gum health and fertility, to the fact that you can bleed monthly without actually ovulating, to how seasons, light exposure, and immune balance all play a powerful role in conception, this episode is packed with practical tools and eye-opening science.

Whether you’re actively trying to conceive, planning ahead, or simply curious about the deeper connections between your body and fertility, these insights will empower you to take charge of your journey.

Key Takeaways: 

• Gum and dental health directly impact sperm quality, egg health, and time to conception.

• You can have a regular period without actually ovulating, here’s how to truly confirm ovulation.

• Fertility can vary with the seasons, with research showing higher conception rates in autumn and winter.

• Light exposure and circadian rhythm play a major role in hormone balance and reproductive health.

• Immune balance is critical for implantation, too much or too little activity can block pregnancy.
  
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

Fertilysis Uterine Microbiome Test: https://www.fertilysis.com Use coupon code: WHOLESOMEFERTILITY for a discount. 

MIRA at home hormone testing: https://mira-fertility.pxf.io/Gm4AXV Use coupon code: WHOLESOMEFERTILITY FOR 15% OFF!

Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:

 https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey

For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus

Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!

• Transcript

  # 357 solo (undedited)

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Episode number 3 57 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Today I'm gonna be talking about five surprising fertility facts you may not have heard of. But before I get started, be sure to hit subscribe so that you can get notified for more future fertility boosting tips.

  Michelle: Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility journey.

  Michelle: So today I am going to be covering five very surprising fertility facts that you may have never heard of. Most people, especially when they first start trying to conceive, start to realize that there's so much information that comes into play, and sometimes they find surprising factors that they never [00:01:00] even thought had anything to do with fertility.

  Michelle: Today I'm gonna be covering. Five different fertility facts that I find as a fertility acupuncturist and coach that many of the people that I work with have never heard of before. So fertility fact number one, the state of your dental health can affect fertility in both men and women. So this might come as a huge surprise.

  Michelle: And I remember when I even started learning a lot more about fertility. When I decided to specialize in it about 10 years ago, I was very surprised when I first heard this. I knew that dental health was really important for inflammation overall, and I didn't realize at the time as I was starting to learn more about fertility, how impactful and important it is to keep the inflammation low when trying to conceive.

  Michelle: So research has shown that women with periodontal disease. Which is advanced gum inflammation took an average of seven months to [00:02:00] conceive compared to women. That took five months that didn't have gum disease. For men, the evidence is compelling. Studies have linked gum disease to reduced sperm motility, abnormal morphology, and higher rates in sperm, DNA fragmentation, all of which cause lower chances of conception and also contribute to miscarriages.

  Michelle: And this comes down to the fact that gum disease can impact. Systemic inflammation, so it starts in the mouth, but then it travels and impacts systemic inflammation in the body. This can increase oxidative stress and can impact reproductive tissues, so it's really important to take care of your dental health and floss daily.

  Michelle: That makes a huge difference. I remember when I was in college. A long time ago, and I flossed once in a while, maybe a couple times a week, but I never really made it a habit and I paid for it. I had root canals. I ended up with a lot of dental work, [00:03:00] and then as soon as I realized how important it was and that I didn't wanna spend the money and go through all of that, I started flossing every single day.

  Michelle: There's not a night that I go without flossing, and ever since then, which is over 20 years ago. I have never had any kind of dental issues, so flossing is huge. It's really, really important. I personally like to use Toms of Maine 'cause they're a really good clean product, but flossing is really important.

  Michelle: And then also having regular dental checkups, making sure that. Your dentist takes a look at your teeth, sees if there's anything going on, because if there's any issue with your teeth, it can cause more inflammation. So making sure you are on top of that, and usually with those routine visits, you'll usually get a deeper clean being on top of your vitamin D, which is so important.

  Michelle: And that of course also impacts fertility health. And you can consider using NIM products. It's an herb in Ayurvedic medicine that has been shown to help a lot with [00:04:00] skin and also gum health. So you can find toothpaste that have nim, and then you can also use mouthwash that has nim. I would not use mouthwash that is too strong or too antiseptic because that can throw off your oral microbiome.

  Michelle: Which is also really important for dental health. So that is the first surprising fertility fact and fertility fact number two is very surprising for a lot of people that are first trying to conceive or first going through this journey. So you can get monthly bleeds and still not ovulate. So you can get what seems to be a regular menstrual cycle where you get your period every month.

  Michelle: But that doesn't necessarily mean. You are ovulating, you actually have to check and confirm that ovulation happened. So typically in a normal cycle, ovulation triggers progesterone production. And this is because what happens during ovulation is women have lots of [00:05:00] follicles in their ovaries. And then when FSH increases in their follicular phase, which is really the phase from the period until ovulation.

  Michelle: What happens is FSH will help one specific follicle grow the most, and that one follicle that ends up taking the most of the FSH and grows the most typically will be the one that ovulates. So the follicle contains the egg inside and when the. Egg shoots out. The remaining of the follicle is called the corpus lutetium.

  Michelle: The corpus lutetium, which actually fun fact means yellow body, and that yellow is betacarotene, is what produces progesterone. And progesterone rises, and that's one of the ways that people can check to see if they actually did in fact ovulate. And then the uterine lining increases. In the second half, which is the luteal phase.

  Michelle: And if there's no pregnancy, then the lining of the uterus sheds and that becomes the monthly bleed. However, with [00:06:00] anovulatory, which means no ovulation cycles, the uterine line can still increase with estrogen, which is. A hormone that increases in the follicular phase of the cycle. Once that buildup increases and becomes unstable, then the woman sheds.

  Michelle: So even though she didn't ovulate, she still got a period. So common reasons for this could be anything from hormone imbalances, maybe even having estrogen dominance, which can happen from getting exposure to a. Endocrine disruptors or not being able to detoxify estrogen efficiently through the body.

  Michelle: Other causes are things like PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome, or thyroid imbalances, which really has a huge impact on ovulation. High stress can do this too. Extreme exercise or undereating her menopause, which is the time before menopause. Where your body is slowly shifting from having [00:07:00] cycles to not having cycles or any type of sudden weight change.

  Michelle: And typically what happens is when women first try to start conceiving or couples are starting to work on it. They look at their cycles and one of the first things they do is they buy something called LH six or pks. And what that does is it measures the luteinizing hormone. So the luteinizing hormone is a hormone that is released from the pituitary gland when the body is trying to signal ovulation.

  Michelle: So what that does is it signals the ovaries. To ovulate, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they responded. So it could be very confusing because people think that if they got a positive OPK or a positive LH surge, that that means that they actually ovulated. And that doesn't necessarily mean it. Now, it would be.

  Michelle: Great information. If the person did in fact know they have Atory cycles. In that case, O PKS could be great. However, in order to truly confirm that you would need things like [00:08:00] either Aira device or checking your BBT charting or something like temp drop, and I can share a couple of resources in the description of this episode.

  Michelle: Another thing that some women do is when they first go to an REI or fertility doctor, they will do a test. For both. They're day two, three of their periods, and that checks lots of different hormones like FSH, and then what they'll do is they'll actually have them come back after midpoint of their cycle around day 21 to check their progesterone.

  Michelle: But this is a, a baseline that happens once. And doing the other tests that I mentioned is something that you can do monthly so that if things are a little off, you can shift things with your lifestyle and measure it. And see if those changes in your lifestyle are actually having an effect on your cycle.

  Michelle: So those are a couple of tips that you can do, but just keep in mind that it is really important if you are actively trying to conceive that you really check your [00:09:00] cycle and understand and confirm if your body actually did in fact, ovulate. So onto the third fertility, surprising fact, and that is fertility actually varies with seasons.

  Michelle: I know this sounds really crazy, but research shows that there are certain seasons that impact conception. So one study in reproductive biology and endocrinology. Found that embryo quality was higher in the autumn and winter compared to spring and summer. So there's different ideas and thoughts, and one of them could be maybe people got a little bit more vitamin D in the summer and then it impacted since it takes about three months for ex symmetry and shift, maybe it impacted by the time they actually did retrieve.

  Michelle: Which is about three months. Or it could be also melatonin increasing with the shorter days, which acts as an antioxidant for the eggs and can increase egg quality. But it's also been shown that [00:10:00] conception rates in general increase around autumn and winter, which I find is just really, really, really fascinating.

  Michelle: And I had a patient a long time ago. Who had one daughter and she would get pregnant, but then miscarry many different times and was trying to conceive for a very long time, years. And what she found was she would always conceive around November, around that time and fall. And so one point when we started working together, she told me she didn't wanna try to conceive around that time because she was so devastated by the losses that she was afraid.

  Michelle: To conceive again during that time of the year because she thought that if she would conceive around that time of the year, it would fail. So at one point, after we've worked together for a while, I encouraged her, why don't you just still do it? Because it seems to be that that's the time that you conceive.

  Michelle: She ended up with a full term healthy pregnancy, but I thought it was just so interesting that she kept conceiving around that same time that the [00:11:00] research shows conception gets higher. So I'm not sure if it is the vitamin D in the summer or the melatonin during the time where the days get shorter.

  Michelle: Research doesn't really know exactly what it is, but for whatever reason, that is a very interesting time. People tend to conceive. And could it be the betacarotene that supports the corpus lium from all the holiday meals? Who knows? But it is a very surprising fact. So the next surprising fact, fact number four is that excessive or poor light can interfere with fertility.

  Michelle: So our 24 hour clock, which is our circadian rhythm, is very much impacted by light. So this is why we get jet lagged. When we move from one time zone to another time zone. Our bodies feel off because they're not used to us being exposed to light at those certain times. And the light is really what anchors our internal clock.

  Michelle: So the way I like to describe [00:12:00] it is that if you're a 24 hour clock. Is off, it's going to impact for women 30 day clock or the 29.5 day clock, which is considered the infra dian rhythm. So the 24 hour is the circadian rhythm and the 29.5 which follows the moon cycle is the infra clock. And if you look at a clock and the second hand.

  Michelle: Is off and it's not working correctly, that second hand is going to impact the hour hand. So even though the hour hand is just doing its thing, the second hand is impacting it because it's all part of one complete whole. So research has shown that people who have conditions like PCOS, which has symptoms of irregular periods, also have a link to disrupted circadian rhythms.

  Michelle: Not only that, the light in general impacts our ability to sleep. So if we get good early morning sun, that can actually impact our night melatonin. [00:13:00] Also getting early morning sun can increase cellular melatonin, which acts like an antioxidant for the eggs. And egg quality. And this can also help with sperm quality as well.

  Michelle: For men, one of the biggest issues is screen time because screens have blue light. So one of the ways to protect from that later at night when your body is going to get confused by that blue light and think it's daytime and that will keep you up longer. And so that kind of disruption will impact your 24 hour day cycle.

  Michelle: So one of the ways to get around it is. Either have your devices for night mode, and what they do is they, they'll start looking more yellow because the blue light aspect of the screen gets taken out, and that helps your eyes distinguish that it's not daytime by the confusion of looking at a blue light.

  Michelle: Another thing you can do if you really can't avoid it, or you're watching TV and there's certain things that you can't really shift or change. Is get something called blue light blockers, and those are glasses that are not [00:14:00] prescription, and all they do is have a little bit of a yellow tint so that they can block the blue light from coming into your eyes.

  Michelle: And you can also ease yourself in the evening by dimming the lights and not having it so bright. So really overall. Really anchoring it in the morning and getting early morning sun, and during that time the UV light is a lot lower, so it's not as dangerous, and it can also be very supportive to anchoring your circadian rhythm.

  Michelle: So surprising fertility. Fact number five is that your body's immune balance is key to successful implantation. So, as you may know if you are on the fertility journey, is that fertility is not just about the egg and sperm meeting. There are so many other factors that contribute to a healthy pregnancy overall, and one of them is creating a really healthy environment and your uterine lining that is able to support healthy implantation.

  Michelle: So keep this in mind, and this is a [00:15:00] really interesting thing that I found again when I first started learning about this, is that the body of a woman perceives sperm as a foreign entity, and therefore it can also perceive a fertilized. Embryo as a foreign entity. So in many cases, if a woman's immune system is too heightened, it can cause a inflammation in the uterine lining, but it can also cause her body's immune system to be too high for the embryo to be tolerated by the body.

  Michelle: So when I mention immune system. And balance. It's important for it not to be too high, but it's also important for it not to be too low. So many things that can be done about this and uh, one of the things that people can look into is a great, it's called ferus. And what that does is it actually looks at the microbiome of the uterus with period blood.

  Michelle: And it's an amazing test because it can give us a lot of information and it's something that you can do at home, and [00:16:00] I will link that in the show notes. And you can also speak to your fertility doctor to see what kind of tests you can do to make sure that there's no inflammation. I've spoken to way too many women that have been on this journey for years have gone through many IVF transfers that have failed, and finally, way later, their uterus lining was tested and they found out that they had.

  Michelle: Some kind of infection. They needed to do a dose of antibiotics. So it's really, really sad to see so many years go by and so many failed transfers happen without any proper testing because as soon as you test, you can see what it is. You can treat it. And then transfers or even natural pregnancies can happen.

  Michelle: I recently had a patient who had endometritis and it was left unchecked until one of her doctors actually checked and found out that she did in fact have something that was totally missed for many years. And she finally treated it, went through a [00:17:00] course of antibiotics. We worked on different supplements, and then she just had a transfer that was her first successful transfer and she's pregnant right now.

  Michelle: So that's just one example of how something can be seemingly so easy to fix, but missed for many years. So it's important to really understand what is happening with the immune system. And so another thing that I wanted to mention. Which is kind of interesting, not a lot of people know, is that one of the reasons why having sex outside of the fertile window in the luteal phases is so good, besides the fact that it takes away the pressure of having to have sex during the time of the fertile window.

  Michelle: It also helps your immune system. So for a woman, more chances of her body coming into contact with this. Sperm. The immune system actually lowers naturally, and this is a natural process that happens in sexually active women, is that their immune system will naturally lower so that it's able to receive new life.

  Michelle: And not only that, you're getting more [00:18:00] blood flow, increasing oxytocin, doing all the good things. So it is important to have sex during the luteal phase, even though it's not a fertile time in order to improve the chances for conception. So that concludes the five Surprising Fertility Facts that you may have never heard of, and this just shows that reproductive health really is a reflection of so much more than just fertility.

  Michelle: And this is why you really need to look at the body as a whole. And if you need support in this journey to uncover what's happening and what you can do without the overwhelm. I have you covered. You could check out my link in the show notes. And go on michelle orbit.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey to find out more.

  Michelle: So thank you so much for tuning in. I hope this information was interesting and inspired you to look [00:19:00] into other ways to boost your chances of conceiving. Sending you all so much love, and I'll see you next time.

Ep 356 Acupuncture, Beets, and Blood Flow: Surprising Ways to Boost Fertility

On this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle dives into a crucial but often overlooked factor in fertility: blood flow and microcirculation. From a Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) perspective, blood is the carrier of nutrients, energy, and life force, making it essential for healthy egg quality, implantation, and overall reproductive wellness.

Michelle explains how poor circulation can lead to challenges like blood stasis, endometriosis, or thin uterine lining, and shares practical ways to support optimal flow. You’ll learn how acupuncture, abdominal massage, castor oil packs, stress reduction, and nutrient-rich foods like beets, pomegranates, and omega-3s can transform fertility outcomes.

This episode offers both science, backed insights and TCM wisdom to help you nurture your body, balance your energy, and create the ideal conditions for conception.

Key Takeaways: 

• Adequate blood flow to the uterus and ovaries is essential for egg quality and implantation.

• Stress and “liver qi stagnation” can constrict circulation, but acupuncture helps restore balance.

• Foods like beets, pomegranate juice, and omega-3s naturally increase nitric oxide and improve blood vessel health.

• Simple lifestyle shifts like yoga, breathwork, and warm nourishing meals can enhance circulation and fertility.

• Abdominal massage and castor oil packs are powerful, low-cost tools to support reproductive health.
  
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

• Transcript

  [00:00:00] Episode number 3 56 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Oravitz. Today I'm going to be talking about a topic that oftentimes is not really the center of focus when it comes to fertility health, and that is blood flow and micro circulation.

  We'll explore why uterine and ovarian blood flow is. So important for your fertility and how poor blood flow can impact chances of conception, and most importantly, natural ways like acupuncture, nutrition, and lifestyle to support healthy microcirculation and optimize your fertility.

  Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I am Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility [00:01:00] journey.

  Michelle: So here's why blood flow matters. Not only is blood flow important for your whole body, it brings in oxygen, and Chinese medicine really sees blood as a carrier of nutrients as well, and it's able to feed all the different parts of our bodies so that our organs and cells are able to function optimally.

  Michelle: But specifically the uterus. Sand the ovaries rely on a rich blood supply to deliver oxygen and nutrients. Adequate blood flow ensures a thick and healthy endometrium, which is the lining of the uterus, and this is essential for implantation and ovarian nourishment supports follicle development and egg.

  Michelle: Quality. It also supports whatever lifestyle choices you're making. So if you're eating better foods or if you're taking certain supplements that are helping with egg quality, that blood flow is going to ensure that all [00:02:00] those nutrients are being carried and can actually impact the ovaries and egg quality.

  Michelle: Ultrasound studies have shown that reduced artery blood flow is associated with lower implantation rates and pregnancy rates. Poor ovarian blood flow can compromise follicular and hormone secretion ultimately affecting equality. So like I mentioned in TCM, we see the blood as being extremely important.

  Michelle: Especially for women because it supports their natural reproductive health. For women, they lose blood once a month, so it's even more important that they get more blood and they build blood through food and through nutrients and lifestyle choices, not only is blood flow important. Difficulty in blood flow or blood deficiency can cause a lot of other problems.

  Michelle: So blood deficiency is when you don't have enough blood and the body needs to build more, and this can be a result of many different factors. So in Chinese medicine, the spleen in the stomach, paired organs that [00:03:00] support digestion, their main role is transforming and transporting nutrients from the food.

  Michelle: Into blood. So if your spleen and stomach are weak, it's going to impact how you're able to produce blood. Another thing we can look at is blood flow or lack thereof can cause something called blood stasis. In TCM, blood stasis eventually, if it's around for too long, can cause buildup. And so a lot of times blood stasis.

  Michelle: Can impact conditions like endometriosis or possibly uterine fibroids or tumors, because when something gets stagnant for too long, it starts to harden. So ideally you would have really beautiful blood flow. You would have enough blood to go through, and then also you'd be supporting a woman's cycle because every month.

  Michelle: She bleeds. So you'd be supporting the process of her building more blood so that her body is able to support the next monthly cycle. So in TCM, we [00:04:00] talk about something called liver cheese stagnation. And this is actually something that is similar to blood stagnation except it's the first stage of that stagnation.

  Michelle: So first the qi, which is the life force vitality gets stagnated, and this can happen from a lot of. Chronic stress, so too much stress can constrict the body. And this is called liver s stagnation. This is a very common pattern that we see, and we're really living at a time that it is a very collective type of pattern, and we see this very often.

  Michelle: And it really does respond to emotions. It responds to stress. And it's very logical if you think about it, because whenever you feel stress, you become more constricted. You become more tight, and you can literally feel it. And one of the things that we can feel with liver stagnation is really the tension that we hold above in our shoulders.

  Michelle: Literally feeling like we're carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders. And what happens is eventually, if. Chi [00:05:00] stagnation, which is really your life force vitality, which is like more on the energetic aspect of the body. If that gets stagnated for too long, it could turn into blood stasis.

  Michelle: Now, it also will constrict not only the muscles here, but the muscles in our veins 'cause. The vessels themselves are a type of muscle, and that can cause more constriction in the blood, circulation in the body. So all of that constriction over time, especially if it's chronic, can impact blood flow overall.

  Michelle: Another reason why some people might not have adequate blood flow is from not eating enough nutrients, like I mentioned before. So not really eating enough and not having a good variety in your diet to. Support the blood production. And when people don't exercise enough or move enough, they're not really getting that circulation physically, mechanically that their body needs.

  Michelle: So this can reduce circulation, but can also reduce lymphatic flow, which is really the fluids that we have in our [00:06:00] lymphatic system. So unlike our blood vessels that have our heart moving the blood, it's a little more difficult with the lymphatics and this is why it relies on us really moving in order for it to circulate.

  Michelle: Another thing to consider is. Inflammation or oxidative stress. And this can cause damage in the endothelial cells, which are aligning the blood vessels, smoking alcohol or excess caffeine, narrow blood vessels, and can reduce microvascular efficiency. And then having too much cold in the womb or too much cold in the system can congeal blood.

  Michelle: So if you think about it, a lot of this stuff actually makes logical sense. What happens when something's too cold or if fluid gets too cold, it starts to congeal. It doesn't move as fast. So having too much cold can really cause it to stagnate. And then on the other hand, you don't want too much heat 'cause then it like evaporates.

  Michelle: It needs to have an environment that is just right. And this is why we always go back to the yin and the. Balance because that creates the [00:07:00] ultimate harmony that the body likes and thrives in. So of course, I'm very biased on this one thing that helps blood flow tremendously, and this is acupuncture. It's something that I do.

  Michelle: I'm an acupuncturist and actually many times IVF doctors will recommend for their patients to go see acupuncturists because they know that the blood flow is so important and that acupuncture really helps with this blood flow. Not only that, when they take the medications. That blood flow can help all those medications through the blood to the ovaries or the uterine lining, depending on if they're preparing for a retrieval or a transfer.

  Michelle: Other things that we wanna consider is also nitric oxide because nitric oxide is a molecule that helps the blood vessels to relax. That causes them to dilate and have more blood circulation moving through the body. It can actually also support heart health because we want more circulation going through the blood.

  Michelle: So it has a lot of other health benefits, [00:08:00] but one of the biggest ones is really getting that blood circulation and increased blood circulation to the uterus and the ovaries, and then also considering moving through a fight and flight state or a sympathetic state to a more rest and digest parasympathetic state.

  Michelle: What happens then is the same thing. The blood vessels will constrict a lot more when you're in a survival or sympathetic state versus a rest and digest state or a parasympathetic state where your blood vessels are more opened and relaxed and that supports more blood flow. One of the ways I can see that the acupuncture sessions work is many of my patients actually come in.

  Michelle: With a lot of pain when they have their periods, and one of the things that shows us that there is stagnation is pain. So when something is constricted or there's resistance, you know that something's not moving well, and usually that reflects is pain. So over time, when patients come in and get acupuncture regularly, one of the first [00:09:00] things they'll mention is that their cycles feel more easy.

  Michelle: They don't get as much brown blood, which also is a sign of stagnation and lack of blood flow, and they'll also notice that they don't feel as much pain. They also see that their Q moves easier because the liver, which is the organ that ensures free flow of QI and that stagnates, like I mentioned before, when you have stress.

  Michelle: Organ is actually a really important organ to support the body and prepare it for menstruation. And so one of the other things that they notice is that their PMS isn't as bad and they feel a little more at ease right before their period. So ultimately, all of those normal symptoms or what we call normal, are actually more common than they are really normal.

  Michelle: And when people get that chief flow and that energy flow, they start to feel better. Then they don't feel those symptoms as much. So as far as lifestyle goes, what I often suggest is yoga, not too much exercise. 'cause [00:10:00] that can also impede blood flow by deficiency. But having a really regulated and balanced workout routine.

  Michelle: So you could do things like yoga. Qigong, you could do running or walking. You just don't wanna do too much. And weights are fine as long as, again, it's not too much. So you wanna have a balanced lifestyle. And really, depending on your body type, if you have a lot of Earth and your body is really strong, then you're able to handle a little bit more.

  Michelle: But if you're really frail and a little more thin on the thin side, your body might need more nurturing and nutrients. And more balanced and easy types of exercise so that you're not overly depleting your body. And so I mentioned how brown blood or pain can signify that there's some kind of stagnation in the uterus.

  Michelle: You can also notice if you have scanty menstruation and less blood, then you'll see that you have less blood flow. And so another thing that you can do if you're not able to get acupuncture is [00:11:00] you could do abdomen massage. And that can help a lot as well. Don't underestimate your hands. Just because they're here and they're free doesn't mean that they're not powerful.

  Michelle: And massaging yourself is something that's been done in Ayurvedic practices for thousands of years because it has tremendous health benefits. So you can not only massage your whole body, but you might wanna spend a little excess time. On your abdomen. So going around clockwise, around your belly button and supporting the area in your pelvis.

  Michelle: And again, this is like very intuitive work. You know your body, once you start to connect and massage yourself, your body will tell you where you need more flow and you might feel a little bit more achy or you might feel a little more. Stuck in certain areas, and you'll notice that as you're feeling it.

  Michelle: So start to connect with your body and see where you feel you need a little bit more massage and TLC and where you might be even feeling a little more stuck, and that can [00:12:00] really help a lot. Another thing that can help is working on that mindset, working on lowering that. Because you wanna get yourself into more of a parasympathetic state and not always a sympathetic.

  Michelle: And keep in mind, we always have the balance of the two and the balance of the two is a normal thing. You just don't want too much on one side. You wanna be able to balance right back into a more rest and digest calm state. So you could do things like meditation. Breath work, which really circulates a lot of energy through the body and that self massage.

  Michelle: Something else that is really beneficial is doing castor oil packs. I have a lot of people asking me, when is the best time to do that? The best time to do castor oil packs? If you're trying to. Conceive actively would be really only a little short window, which is right after your period, and then up to the time that you're ovulating.

  Michelle: And that's it. Because if you're actively trying to conceive, you don't wanna move too much after the window of possible [00:13:00] implantation, so as to not disturb that process. However, if you feel that. You really get a lot of PMS and you have a lot of liver type symptoms, which can manifest as fibroids, even endometriosis.

  Michelle: You might want to take that castor oil pack and move it to right around the liver, which is under your right ribs and that area. So you're not really going in that. Pelvic area, you're just touching the liver. And that could be another thing that you can do after ovulation that can support that while not moving too much in that pelvic region.

  Michelle: And then as far as nitric oxide goes, you could eat foods that can increase nitric oxide, and one of the best foods for that are beets. And it's really amazing how nature will show you the color of blood through beets, which is. Amazing to me because it really gives us a little clues as to what that food can help.

  Michelle: So beet [00:14:00] root powder, if you want something a little bit more strong or just really eating beets, and believe it or not, pomegranate juice is also very rich in nitric oxide Again. The blood color, that's a clear giveaway. And then you also wanna focus on omega threes, which lower inflammation and improves endothelial health.

  Michelle: Another thing too, combat oxidative stress is go high on the antioxidants like berries and dark, raw chocolate, which is also really high in magnesium. And then lastly, like I mentioned before, too much cold in the system is not great. When it comes to blood circulation, so you want warm, nourishing foods, so bone broth, maybe some herbal teas with ginger cinnamon, and also cook your vegetables so you're not having too much raw, which is also something that has a lot of cold nature and avoid ice cream or ice liquids as well.

  Michelle: So if you really love your smoothies, that's fine. I always say 2080 and 80% cooked [00:15:00] vegetables, 20% raw. If you are gonna have smoothies, make sure it's not too icy, or if you're using some frozen vegetables or fruits, just let it sit out for a little bit. Before drinking it, and some supplements that have been shown to help with blood flow, although I always suggest talk to your doctor first before starting any supplements because it really depends on you and what you need.

  Michelle: And it's really important to speak to a qualified doctor and practitioner. But what's been shown to help is L-Arginine, which is a precursor to nitric oxide and coq 10, which supports mitochondrial and vascular health. So when it comes to just focusing on the uterine lining. You could definitely take L-arginine, but there's been mixed results on how that impacts egg quality.

  Michelle: So when I personally suggest, I usually say do L-arginine, only if you're focusing on the lining, for example, when you're preparing for a uterine trance. For with IVF, but that's my personal thoughts and I would definitely talk to your [00:16:00] doctor because your case might be really unique and different, and the best person to talk to is the person that you're working with.

  Michelle: And of course, like I mentioned before, beet root juice and powder is something that you can use as a supplement to naturally boost. Nitric oxide. So as you can see, the flow of the areas and the uterus and the flow in the body really makes a difference. When it comes to reproductive health. We look at sometimes reproductive health is just its own thing, but it's really not.

  Michelle: It's part of this big, beautiful hole that is your body, and that hole impacts all of the different parts. So that flow not only through chief flow, but also through blood flow. Really matters when it comes to your body and when it comes to your reproductive health. So if you are on the fertility journey, I've created a lot of different resources that I do share, and you could check it out and see which one would be best for you, depending on your journey.

  Michelle: And this is why I've created the Wholesome Fertility journey, and you can find a link down [00:17:00] below. And when you click on the link, you'll find a quiz that can help you figure out where you are on your journey and what it is that you need. Because I created it to be customized for you and meet you where you are at, depending on where you are on your journey.

  Michelle: So I definitely encourage you, check it out. So thank you so much for tuning in today, and I hope you have a beautiful day.

  [00:18:00]

Ep 355 The Truth About ‘Ozempic Pregnancies’ No One’s Talking About

In today’s episode, I dive into the rising phenomenon of so-called “Ozempic pregnancies” and uncover what’s really happening behind the headlines. GLP-1 receptor agonists like Ozempic and Wegovy were originally developed for type 2 diabetes, but are now being used by many women with PCOS, insulin resistance, or weight challenges to support fertility.

I’ll break down how these medications work, why they may help some women conceive, and the important risks and limitations you need to know. From a Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) perspective, we’ll explore why simply taking a drug isn’t enough to address the root cause, and how digestive health, spleen qi, and lifestyle habits hold the key to lasting fertility and hormone balance.

I’ll also share practical strategies you can start today, like mindful eating, warming your digestive fire, and syncing with your circadian rhythm, that can naturally support your fertility journey.

Key Takeaways: 

• GLP-1 medications like Ozempic can temporarily improve insulin sensitivity but don’t resolve the root causes of infertility.

• Insulin resistance impacts ovulation, egg quality, and hormone balance, especially in women with PCOS.

• TCM approaches fertility by strengthening the digestive system and restoring balance, rather than suppressing symptoms.

• Mindful eating, warm digestion-supporting practices, and aligning meals with the body’s circadian rhythm are powerful fertility boosters.

• Sustainable lifestyle changes are essential for lasting fertility health, beyond short-term medication use.
  
  Links mentioned:
  
  📕Fertility Diet eBook
  

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

• Transcript

  Michelle: Episode number 3 55 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today we're diving into a very hot topic, Ozempic and Fertility. You may have heard the phrase, Ozempic Babies referring to women who became pregnant unexpectedly while on these drugs.

  Michelle: But what's really going on in this episode, we'll talk about what GLP one medications like Ozempic and Wego v. Actually do how they affect insulin resistance and the role that insulin resistance plays in fertility. And then I'll of course show you how we look at this through the lens of traditional Chinese medicine where the focus is always addressing the root cause.

  Michelle: This is gonna be a really interesting topic, so stay tuned.

  [00:01:00]

  Michelle: GLP one. Drugs like ozempic and wegovy are what's called GLP receptor agonists. GLP one stands for glucagon like peptide one a hormone your body naturally produces in response to eating. So these drugs work. By slowing how fast your stomach empties out food. And they also improve how your body responds to insulin while lowering blood sugar.

  Michelle: And what they do is they reduce a person's appetite and they also promote weight loss. So originally these drugs were made for type two diabetes where people begin to have insulin resistance. So their body produces too much insulin and their cells eventually get [00:02:00] resistant to it. But now over time, people have started using these drugs for weight loss and now many women with insulin resistance or people who are overweight and trying to conceive, or people who have PCOS and tend to have a little bit more insulin resistance in general, have been using these drugs to help them conceive.

  Michelle: What happens is many women take these drugs. And then they eventually lose weight or it increases their insulin receptivity and therefore it helps them conceive and the lower a woman's insulin resistance is. The more healthy and regulated her cycles are, the less inflammation she has in her body. And it can also increase egg quality as well.

  Michelle: So for many women with PCOS, these shifts can be really dramatic and sometimes lead to pregnancies after years of struggle. So let's talk about insulin resistance. 'cause I know that is by itself a very hot topic. It's something that we often hear, especially [00:03:00] for women who have PCOS. So insulin resistance happens when your body's cells and many different types of cells stop responding properly to insulin.

  Michelle: So insulin moves sugar from your blood into your cells for more energy. And when insulin is not able to do its job properly, over time, the cells are not gonna get the sugar they need, and then the sugar in the blood will increase. And then what happens is the pancreas tries to increase its production of insulin to balance this out and over time, this increases insulin in the bloodstream and this leads to high insulin as well as high blood sugar levels eventually, when the pancreas cannot keep up.

  Michelle: This can lead to something called type two diabetes, which increases inflammation in the body as well. So how this impacts fertility health is multifold. It can really disrupt hormone balance, and excess [00:04:00] insulin can cause the ovaries to make more testosterone and less estrogen. And this can cause an issue with ovulation.

  Michelle: And this is one of the reasons why women who have PCOS. Have the type of PCOS that is insulin resistance, because not all PCOS looks the same, but the majority does tend to have insulin resistance. This is one of the reasons why you'll find a lot of high androgens in cases of PCOS, and you'll also find that a lot of people with PCOS have irregular cycles or aren't even ovulating.

  Michelle: High insulin can also cause the ovaries not to respond as well to hormones that trigger the release of the egg, which is why it can also cause issues with ovulation. Insulin resistance also causes cells to not get the energy they need because eggs are cells. It's. The largest cell in a woman's body, it's not going to get the energy production that it needs to increase the quality.

  Michelle: Polycystic poly, [00:05:00] meaning many is actually referring to not cysts, but follicles that are growing, but they're not fully maturing the way they're supposed to because they don't have the right type of energy. So this actually leads to lower quality eggs, and you'll find that a lot of. Women with PCOS that do IVF may have a lot of eggs extracted, but ultimately not that many will end up being healthy embryos.

  Michelle: And this is because the quality is not as high. And not only that being insulin resistance can increase a lot of inflammation in the body, which can cause so many issues. It can also impact equality, but it can also impact digestion and how women are really processing food and nutrients into their body.

  Michelle: So as you can see, it can cause a whole host of impacts on fertility health. So I did mention PCOS, however. Insulin resistance can also occur in women that do not have PCOS. So it's not just something that you'll find [00:06:00] with PCOS, and unfortunately, we're living at a time where we have lots of different aspects and contributors in our environment that can cause issues with insulin resistance.

  Michelle: So this can be very much environmental as well. So ultimately. It all comes down to insulin and really getting that in check. But here is the thing, even though many women can have a temporary impact of insulin sensitivity due to taking these drugs, this is not a permanent thing. So once they get off of it, their body is automatically gonna go back to its original state, and we haven't really addressed the root issue.

  Michelle: And can that cause any future? Impacts, we don't really know. There are also certain risks that can be involved. It's not really recommended to take when you're pregnant, so you could get to a certain healthy level. And then once you get pregnant, there's no guarantee that your insulin sensitivity is gonna stay the same unless you make some other impacts and lifestyle [00:07:00] changes.

  Michelle: So another thing to consider is because your digestive system is being slowed down. This can impact how your body is absorbing nutrients. And of course, those nutrients are really important for your egg quality. So while this impact could be temporary, where your body loses weight and your body's able to process energy, is this something that you wanna do long term and at what point?

  Michelle: Can this get really expensive and also not really help your body's overall balance? There's just not a lot of information either on how GLP one drugs can impact embryo quality or the child's health. There's also a dependency factor because once people stop GLP one drugs. If they're gonna go back to the same pattern before where they might still have that insulin resistance rising, unless again, they're changing something in their lifestyle.

  Michelle: So from A TCM perspective, traditional [00:08:00] Chinese medicine, and this is kind of my. Thing we look at really the root cause. We don't really treat symptoms, and what that means is five different people can come with the same symptom, but each person might have a different reason for why that symptom is emerging.

  Michelle: So this is the reason we cannot really be treating the symptom, but we wanna look at the underlying cause. So a person can come in for a headache and that can be because they have too much cold in their system. Another person can have headaches. From blood deficiency, another person can have headaches from blood stagnation and so on.

  Michelle: So there's so many different things. But if I'm treating somebody with blood stagnation as if they're blood deficient and I'm tonifying that blood, that can actually cause an adverse effect. So ultimately, we're looking at the whole person and the root cause in order to create a harmony in their body so that their body is able to self-heal.

  Michelle: And many times in cases of PCOS. There are certain patterns that we'll see, and one of them [00:09:00] is being spleen sheet deficient. So when you have any kind of digestive issues and you're getting excess, what we call excess damp, so fat is considered a damp substance and that can accumulate when your spleen sheet is deficient.

  Michelle: Now what does that mean? Your spleen and stomach working as a pair are really in charge of your digestive health, and if they're not doing their job. Properly. Then there's an accumulation happening. And that can be looked at as really that lagging of spleen. They're not able to really process nutrients and take from food what can ultimately be translated into the body as chi and blood.

  Michelle: And think about it, you know, it's basically saying that your cells are not gonna get the energy they need from the food, which ultimately is describing what happens when a person is insulin resistant. They are not able to process and take the sugar into the cells. So from [00:10:00] a Chinese medicine perspective, they see it as the body's digestive system is just not functioning properly.

  Michelle: And so we need to tonify and support that rather than actually depleting a person and getting them to lose weight. Forcefully, what they do is actually work on the digestive system and improve it, increase it, support it, and ultimately just. By strengthening the digestive system in the spleen and stomach, you're helping the spleen and stomach to process and translate energy from food.

  Michelle: So here's a few things that you could be doing to support your spleen and stomach. Ideally, you go to an acupuncturist and the acupuncturist can give you acupuncture and herbs to support your spleen and stomach, and they many times will suggest some foods that you can take to support your digestion as well.

  Michelle: But here are some things that you can do. Right away. And I always suggest in the beginning to become more mindful, to really increase that mindfulness around [00:11:00] eating. Because you have this amazing body that is very intelligent and it loves to communicate with you. However, many times we ignore this communication, but once you become mindful, you'll notice that your body's going to communicate more and you're gonna start to really understand what it's saying.

  Michelle: And especially when it comes to food, which is one of the reasons why I really highly suggest. Starting a food diary. So basically writing down everything that you're eating. And it's not so hard nowadays. You can find even apps that you can put it on your phone. 'cause we have our phones next to us twenty four seven these days.

  Michelle: So you can have something where you're writing things down. On what you're eating, but then also noting how do you feel after you eat? Do you feel any changes? Do you feel any difference? So those are things that you can kind of pay attention to. And one of the things you can do too, is a warm water with lemon in the morning.

  Michelle: And I also highly suggest adding cinnamon to it because cinnamon can help with blood sugar. So those are things that [00:12:00] you can actually do to support your digestive system. And in Ayurvedic medicine, which is an ancient Indian medicine, is very much related to Chinese medicine. They often suggest kindling the Agni of your stomach.

  Michelle: So the Agni is considered your digestive fire and that is able to really transform nutrients into the body. And many times we have diluted. Our digestive fire by eating too many colds in the form of ice drinks or even ice smoothies in the morning, first thing. And our digestive system really needs to be warm.

  Michelle: It wants to be warm because it's cooking our food. So when we're constantly giving it cold foods or cold. Drinks, then it can really impact its ability to digest. And you really wanna look at your digestive system from the beginning to the end. So another thing that I highly suggest, which many people do not do, is really spend time looking at your food.

  Michelle: [00:13:00] So you start really with your eyes, looking at your food before you eat, becoming mindful with your food. And then secondly, when you do actually start eating, chew your food, use your teeth. Your teeth are the first things that you have. Mastication. And what this does is it actually prepares your whole body to digest the food properly.

  Michelle: And then what happens is you masticate with your teeth, the food, and then you mix the food with your saliva. And the saliva starts by your vision. When you're looking at food and you're hungry, it will actually make you salivate. So all of this is preparing you to create these enzymes, to mix those enzymes with your saliva.

  Michelle: And really prepare the food for digestion. If you can do this every day, it's going to be a game changer. So also prepping your nervous system for proper digestion. So you've probably heard about the rest and digest mode, and why is it called [00:14:00] rest and digest? This is because it is a nervous system state that is more primed for digestion versus a nervous system state that is more fight or flight.

  Michelle: And being in sympathetic or fight and flight is not necessarily always so extreme. So you could be in fight or flight or even. Sympathetic when you're driving a car and you're constantly aware of what's coming at you. So you have to be ultra conscious, which is one of the reasons why, and for many other good reasons for safety, you really shouldn't be eating while you're driving.

  Michelle: So ultimately, you want your mind and your consciousness to be on the food. So even watching things while you're eating. Means you're multitasking and you're not really able to relax and calm down and be present with your food. So you really want to have a very calm state so that your body is in this rest and digest [00:15:00] parasympathetic mode, which is optimal for digestion.

  Michelle: Something else that I highly recommend is really using nature and the circadian rhythm, and it's interesting because in PCOS, which happens to have a lot of insulin resistance patterns. There's a link that shows that a lot of people with PCOS have circadian rhythm imbalances, which is interesting to me because that's, uh, something that we want to regulate in our body is related to how the sun is during the day.

  Michelle: And so the circadian rhythm is our 24 hour clock, and that can impact our sleep wake cycle. But not just that, it also impacts our digestion. Ayurvedic medicine teaches that the best time to have the largest meal. Really shouldn't be at sundown, which is what most of us do. It should be when the sun is highest, which is 12 to two, that's the best time to have the biggest meals.

  Michelle: Protein rich, really difficult to digest proteins, and then coupling that with. Things that are [00:16:00] high in fiber, like vegetables and healthy fats. So this is a time where our Agni is at its peak and we're really using and borrowing from what nature's doing and the nature's clock. So my suggestion is if you do have insulin resistance, look into possibly not doing intermittent fasting where you're skipping breakfast, but actually.

  Michelle: Doing it the opposite, having a good breakfast, having a really great lunch, and then a smaller meal at the end of the day as the sun is going down, and then not having any food for the rest of the night. So maybe a couple of hours, at least three before you go to sleep. So you are having this fasting window, but it's not in the morning first thing, when your body's primed to digest.

  Michelle: It's actually at the end of the day, this will help you with sleep and it also has been shown to improve insulin sensitivity. So these are just a couple of things that I suggest, but also you can work on stress and really priming that [00:17:00] nervous system so that it is much more receptive to digestion. That being said, GLP one medications may be something that can benefit you.

  Michelle: I don't know. My suggestion is always speak to a doctor. Also do your own research. So I hope this answered a lot of questions that you might have. And if you'd like, I have my fertility diet ebook, and you can find that in the show notes. And in this ebook, I share a lot of great tips on how to support your fertility through food.

  Michelle: So thank you so much for tuning in today, and I hope you have a beautiful day. [00:18:00] [00:19:00]

Ep 354 Oxytocin, Intimacy, and Fertility: A Sex Expert’s Guide with Susan Bratton

On this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by intimacy expert and author Susan Bratton (@susanbratton)  to explore the powerful connection between passion, pleasure, and fertility. Too often, trying to conceive becomes mechanical and stressful, leaving intimacy feeling like a chore. Susan brings her 20+ years of experience helping couples transform “having sex” into “making love” and shares practical tools to reignite joy and connection on the fertility journey.

We dive into her three keys to conception, relaxation, connection, and engorgement, and how practices like yoni massage, oxytocin-boosting foods, and conscious lovemaking can not only increase the chances of conceiving but also create a more vibrant and lasting intimacy. Susan also shares insights on male performance challenges, natural fertility-friendly products, and why cultivating oxytocin can be life-changing for both partners.

If you’ve been feeling like intimacy has become all about the baby-making schedule, this episode will give you a refreshing and empowering perspective on bringing back the romance and planting the seeds for a lifetime of passion.

Key Takeaways: 

• Why fertility often makes intimacy feel mechanical and how to shift that.

• The three keys to conception from a sex expert’s perspective: relaxation, connection, and engorgement.

• How yoni massage and nitric oxide support female arousal and fertility.

• Oxytocin’s overlooked role in conception, joy, and long-term intimacy.

• Practical tools to reduce stress, reignite pleasure, and support both partners through TTC.
  

Guest Bio:

Susan Bratton (@susanbratton), widely known as the “Intimacy Expert to Millions,” is a champion for lifelong passion and connection. She is the co-founder of Personal Life Media, creator of the Better Lover brand, and CEO of The20, a company producing organic and botanical supplements to support vitality. A best-selling author of over 40 books and programs, including Relationship Magic and Revive Her Drive, Susan has been featured on ABC, CBS, NBC, and is one of the most downloaded guests on countless podcasts worldwide.

Connect with Susan:

Visit her website
Follow her on Facebook
Follow her on Instagram
Watch her videos in Youtube
Get your free bottle here! 

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast season.

  Susan: Hi, Michelle. I love what you're doing so much helping mommies become mommies. That's so great.

  Michelle: Same. I'm so excited to talk to you today. I always start with an origin story, so I would love for you to introduce yourself, give us your background, and what got you into the work that you're doing.

  Susan: Sure. I think it's probably something that's very relatable, but I wish it wasn't. I had been married to my husband for 11 years. I'd never had an orgasm from intercourse and I was avoiding him for sex and he was super sad and begging didn't work and honey dos didn't work. And I just wasn't, I just wasn't really, I just couldn't anymore, and I didn't wanna get divorced from him.

  Susan: But [00:01:00] he thought there was something wrong with me and I thought there was something wrong with me. And little did we know, we just didn't know what we were doing.

  Susan: Like everybody, because we don't get taught orgasmic love making. And so we did a couple things. We went to marriage therapy and that was okay.

  Susan: Not great. They didn't know much about sex. We did a lot of personal growth work, which helped us become honest with each other, which was really helpful. And then we went to sex workshops and went, oh my God, I'm having fantastic sex now. I'm having orgasms. It was super easy to learn. Why don't, why would, why doesn't everybody learn this?

  Susan: And that was what made my husband and I start a company two decades ago called Personal Life Media, where we brought the work of our mentors online so that any couple or single anywhere in the world who wanted to learn how to have heart connected, passionate. Conscious love making could [00:02:00] learn how easy the techniques are because our human operating system wants to have orgasmic pleasure. it. just doesn't know what to do until we do it. So that's what I've been doing, and I've been having super hot sex. It keeps getting better for the last two decades.

  Michelle: Awesome. That's amazing. And it's true, it is common. It's more common than people realize, and I think people feel like they're alone and they don't realize that this is common. But not only that, we're on a fertility podcast and there's so many people who have this like whole time to mechanical, it's become so mechanical.

  Michelle: It's just leading to baby. And that's become all it is. And sometimes I hear the husbands get frustrated, the women get frustrated. So it takes the joy out of the intimacy. So I think that this is such an important topic that we're gonna be talking about today, because I think a lot of people can relate.

  Michelle: [00:03:00] Probably the majority of the patients that come into my office say the same thing and they feel like it's become. All about the baby and nothing like, it's just they don't have the energy, even also from all the stress to become more intimate. So I would love to talk about like what people can do to support that connection.

  Susan: It is so easy. I'm gonna fix the problem in the next 40 minutes.

  Michelle: I love that. Yes.

  Susan: I call

  Michelle: love you. You're fun.

  Susan: Ah, oh girl. You don't even know. I call this sexy fertility, planting the seeds for a lifetime of passion. Super silly little title about this conversation, but I actually did a keynote. For a women's event, a women's fertility event, and it went so well that I decided [00:04:00] to have my publicist reach out to fertility podcasts like yourselves.

  Susan: And man, we sent out one email to fertility podcasts and everybody was like, that's what we need. So it's huge. And I couldn't have done it without 20 years. Of teaching people how to transform, having sex into making love and all the little tips and tricks that I know for people not even trying to conceive, but who had gotten tired of having sex together.

  Susan: They were in a sexless marriage that was not pleasurable for her or whatever. And it's really, really a ver pretty simple strategy. And, I think that's the most important thing is that you have, you're at a fork in the road when you're working on your conception. And yeah, it's stressful, but it's also an opportunity and it. really depends on your mindset and when you have the mindset, oh, I'm planting the seeds for a lifetime of passion through this process, [00:05:00] I'm gonna take.

  Susan: Everything that we used to do and how we used to have sex is gonna go out the window and I'm gonna take a new a new reframe on what my sex life with my partner is like starting now, and it's just gonna keep getting better. Our whole lives long from here. That's what I'm really doing and what it really comes down to is that you have to schedule sex when you're trying to conceive because you gotta hit your ovulatory windows.

  Susan: However, you, when sex experts come in and they're like, well, you just schedule sex and you have it, that'll fix the sex marriage problem. I'm like. That does not work 'cause she doesn't wanna do it. 'cause it's a chore. It's not pleasurable. It's a job, not a vacation. And so how do you turn it into. This incredible experience that you share together where you go through it and you're having so much fun that, number [00:06:00] one, it's easy to conceive 'cause you're having fun instead of stress being stressed out about it.

  Susan: And number two, you actually look forward to the times when you have to try to make the baby and you end up having more times than you have to because you're having so much fun.

  Susan: That's the trick, making it fun and pleasurable. And the way that you do that is through working on learning new skills together in the bedroom while you're trying to conceive.

  Susan: So it's not, we have to have intercourse. It's, oh, let's try the heart tongue method. Let's try Hondo. Let's try Crouching tiger, hidden dragon. Let's try the feline grind. Let's try penis pivot. Let's try poi. Let's try this position, that position, this position, that position. Let's try to have an expanded orgasm date.

  Susan: Let's start with yoni massage. Let's find [00:07:00] my G-spot. Let's do G-spot disarming. Let's try this sex toy. Let's do a lingerie photo shoot with me in some of, you know, holding teddy bears or whatever. Like the minute you start thinking about it as. Like a couple's project, an educational learning environment, and you move away from it being, oh, we've gotta have intercourse and I've gotta ejaculate inside you.

  Susan: When you get out of the mechanics and you get into the pleasure, it really becomes fun. So some of the things that I want to talk about today are things like what I consider to be the three keys to conception from a sex expert's perspective. And I'd also like to talk about the benefits of oxytocin for fertility.

  Michelle: Yes. I actually talk a lot about this and I love that you're bringing this up.

  Susan: I wanna talk to you about it because that is interesting. I'm glad you are talking about that. [00:08:00] I also wanna talk about how to get her turned on what a woman's arousal. You know, profile is like compared to her male bodied partner and how to slow down to the female body's pace to get even further than you've ever gotten in your sex life.

  Susan: When you go on a man's pace, you don't make it very far. It's like you burning out a bright star when you go on a woman's pace. It's like a supernova.

  Michelle: Mm.

  Susan: a nebula of supernovas. And then I would like to talk about a couple of different. Basically just some rules of thumb for having success. I think that would be really important too.

  Susan: So I'm gonna give you the construct, give you some, give you some tools give you a download, a worksheet to work with. And I think that that would probably take us right through to the end of the show, if that, if [00:09:00] that sounds good

  Michelle: That sounds amazing.

  Susan: Okay. Good.

  Michelle: I'm sure everybody's like, tell me please.

  Susan: All right. Well, I would say, let's start with the three keys to conception. They are relaxation, connection, and engorgement. Does any of that surprise you that that's what I said?

  Michelle: No, because I talk about the nervous system and, and I think that also the nervous system communicates. So all of these things as from my background, I'm all about, and nitric oxide and all of that. Yeah.

  Susan: So the relaxation piece of it is very, very important because if you're stressed out, you're going to struggle to

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Susan: and I really like yoni massage for relaxation. Are you familiar with Yoni Massage.

  Michelle: Not as much.

  Susan: Okay. So are you familiar with the word yoni?

  Michelle: Yes.

  Susan: Okay, [00:10:00] great. So for your listeners who might not be Yoni, YONI is a Sanskrit word that means the portal.

  Susan: And it's really the word that I like to use for the female euro genital system. So instead of saying vagina, which is just the internal part, which feels kind of patriarchal to me because it doesn't include our pleasure areas of what, obviously the vagina's a pleasure area, but it's not the only one. So I also really like, you know, the clitoris, the urethral sponge, the perineal sponge, the labia, the clit hood, the mons, all of those.

  Susan: Things need to be pleasured so that, you know, we we're very familiar with the fact that men have these erectile tissue structures in their penis. These three long tubes of spongy tissue that get erect very quickly when blood flows in, when, when it gets turned on. But we women have the same amount of erectile tissue that's in our men's [00:11:00] penises.

  Susan: It's wrapped around our vaginal cavern. It starts at the clitoral tip, clitoral shaft, clitoral hood, the mons, the inner labia, the outer labia, the vestibule, the introital sphincter, the vaginal cavern, including the urethral sponge, which is called a G-spot sponge on the bottom and the entire vaginal.

  Susan: System, including the cervical dome. Everything is extremely orgasmic when it's activated and it needs to be activated or waken up so that the nerves send signals to the brain. The somatosensory cortex, which is the part of the brain that processes the sensation as pleasure or pain or shame. Or numbness and you can transform the pain and shame and numb numbness into pleasure with loving touch.

  Susan: So when you do a yoni massage, you're basically giving a, [00:12:00] giving a woman a genital massage. You're lying her down, you're holding her, you're kissing her, you're letting her get the, you know, the. The issues of her day, out of her system, talking about anything that needs to be cleared, having clearing conversations, checking in, connecting hearts, and then you can give her whatever she needs.

  Susan: A foot rub, a neck rub a butt rub a belly rub, a breast massage, but you can also offer her a yoni massage. And yoni is basically. An external, and it can also be internal VUL vaginal massage using some nice oils. I like two ones that I really recommend. One of the things I don't like about lubes sexual lubricants are an FDA class two category of product, and they must be, they must have preservatives in them.

  Susan: I don't mind that. I mean, there's some decent preservatives, but the [00:13:00] problem is that now lubes are kind of like our ultra processed foods. We used to use jojoba, cocoa butter, you know, things like that. Organic almond, avocado oil CBD oil, MCT oil, things like that. But then. The big brands got ahold of these things and they filled them with garbagey chemical crap.

  Susan: And if you

  Michelle: Parabens sometimes.

  Susan: Yeah.

  Susan: forever, chemicals, all kinds of things. If you don't, if you wouldn't put it in your mouth, don't put it in your yoni. Don't

  Michelle: Yeah. And some of them are not fertility friendly.

  Susan: knot at all. They're endocrine dis disruptors. They're disgusting. So there's two I like. This one is called. The Foria pleasure protocol, it's at pleasure protocol.com.

  Susan: I can have this sent to you. It has these intimacy melts that melt up inside the vaginal canal so that. [00:14:00]

  Susan: You don't have to try to get lube up there. 'cause when you're a little nervous, you're a little dry. And then their arousal oil goes on the outer vulval area to awaken that tissue. And then there's sex oil for all the slide and glide that you want.

  Susan: I also like another product that's

  Michelle: And those are sperm friendly.

  Susan: yes, sperm friendly.

  Michelle: Perfect.

  Susan: This is nude Pleasures and this is my Lover's Bundle, and it includes, and I'll, I'll get you links for this and all this stuff. It gives you a CBD based intimacy oil. There's a little light fragrance from essential oils. That's it. And what I love about it is that it also comes with some libido, botanicals.

  Susan: It comes with vitality and stamina. Supplements, they're a hundred percent natural. They're simply [00:15:00] botanicals and a mushroom complex. You can take them when you know you're moving into your window of fertility and it'll just help with blood flow, engorgement and desire.

  Michelle: Nice.

  Susan: I think that I'll take help from the plant kingdom.

  Susan: Thank you very much for some natural products. So the Lovers Bundle, the pleasure protocol. These are very, very good products. Remind me at the end if you'd like to have them sent and I'll send them off to you. So I think relaxation is really how do you get her out of her head and into her body and settling her nervous system and lowering her cortisol.

  Susan: You do that through relaxation and connection and a yoni massage and holding her really helps. It's not like you're just jumping in bed and. Sticking your penis inside her and pumping away and ejaculating. That's not what you want. You wanna make a baby [00:16:00] in a beautiful, heart connected environment. So that I think is really important because it's gonna open her heart and open her yoni and open her to the possibility of becoming with child the third.

  Susan: Key to contraception is this engorgement getting all of that tissue really plumped up in her vul vaginal system in her yoni. By manually massaging with these oils. It's almost like a pleasure ritual that she can just relax into, because for him, it takes him two minutes to get an erection, but for her, it takes her about 20.

  Susan: And that's because though we have the same amount of that spongy tissue that needs to fill with blood to increase more surface area, to send more signals Of pleasure to the big brain, our number one sex organ, we have them in nooks and [00:17:00] crannies, not in straight tubes, down a penis. And so they have to flow in and seep in, which is why nitric oxide is so important.

  Susan: Men use these PDE five inhibitors like Viagra, LA Vitra, and Cialis, which help them open those channels and get that blood flowing in there. But for women, it's really also just very beneficial to take a nitric oxide supplement. So with your permission, I would like to give away of food derived organic food.

  Susan: Fruit and vegetable derived nitric oxide supplement to heighten the blood flow, to increase the engorgement. So as the mom to be, we're getting our lady boner, our clal erection, our labial or plum, our labia are plumping up. [00:18:00] Everything's getting rich and luscious, and everything feels good. And it all works better.

  Susan: Can I give a link for that? So you'd get a free bottle? I use this just on podcast. It's get flow now.com/the

  Michelle: wholesome fertility.

  Susan: the wholesome fertility.

  Michelle: Yes, it's it's in the show notes if anybody wants to find it.

  Susan: Yes. So it's just Get Flow now. That's the name of the The Product Flow Nitric oxy booster

  Susan: Get flow free.com, the slash the wholesome fertility

  Susan: and that'll get you a free bottle. And I would take those honestly. For as long as you want.

  Susan: Because once your clitoris gets engorged and it feels as good as it feels, you're gonna be like, yeah, I'll be pretty much taking this every time I have [00:19:00] sex now. And you wanna take it at night or the morning, but you can also take it 20 minutes before love making, before your date. So relaxation, connection and engorgement are the three keys to contraception.

  Susan: They both, they all three of those really help a lot.

  Michelle: Awesome. I love that. And quick question. So we talk about the female, what if the, sometimes I have couples coming in and the male has a hard time with performance.

  Susan: Yes. Well, anytime he has performance.

  Susan: anxiety and he's. Stressed, he's going to worry too. And he's gonna feel like he needs to make this instant erection. 'cause his job is to ejaculate and get you pregnant. So I really feel like the relaxation, the holding is going to help him a lot. The connection, getting things off your chest, getting your hearts reconnected.

  Susan: And then as he's giving you a yoni massage, one of the things that you can also do is you can give him a little lingham massage. Massage afterward. Lingham is the tantric love [00:20:00] making word for penis, and that with the beautiful oils, the pleasure protocol or the lover's bundle, and then that's going to help him gain his erection because he's more relaxed afterward.

  Susan: If he has erectile dysfunction specifically, and it's not just pressure, I recommend the nitric oxide, the. The get flow free.com

  Michelle: So that's good

  Susan: I.

  Michelle: men and women.

  Susan: It's men and women. We all love the same parts, and I recommend using a vacuum erection device, a penis pump, and getting gains wave treatments. If he has ed, you can reverse it, and the penis pump that I recommend is at.

  Susan: Pumps work.com and you need to give him some space to pump. But if he pumps a couple of times a week, it'll really help with his firmness and blood flow in his penis. And then if [00:21:00] that's not enough, and he's quite Erect, highly challenged, if you will then find a Gains Wave practitioner in your area, gains wave.com/susan will have a directory.

  Susan: But what it also has, and I don't get paid for this. But I have a custom page for it because I did get a seventh treatment free for my fans and followers. And so if you go to gaines wave.com/susan, G-A-I-N-S-W-A-V-E, you will get a promo code and you'll be able to find a doctor in your area that can do these acoustic wave treatments to the penis, which rejuvenate the penile tissue and work perfectly in conjunction with the penis pumping and the nitric oxide.

  Susan: So if he shows up at a gains wave doctor and he is like, I've been doing penis pumping and I've been taking nitric oxide and I'm still not as hard as I wanna be, I'm still not as sure I can get as hard as I want. Your Gains wave.

  Susan: doctor's gonna be like, [00:22:00] that was, that was good advice. Wow. You've saved me a lot of time.

  Susan: 'cause I was gonna have you do those things too. So that's the stack for getting back your erectile erectile function.

  Michelle: Yeah. 'cause I have heard that and I, I imagine it's very frustrating because the women are like, okay, well we have like this window. And now I think, you know, there was a lot of pressure on the men and I think a lot of it's psychological because they feel like they have to perform. So I think it really impacts both, both partners.

  Susan: Yes.

  Michelle: And then talk about oxytocin. One of my favorite topics,

  Michelle: 'cause I think it's so, like, I, I say the same thing and it's not you probably saw there's not a lot of research on it for fertility. They always talk about it for labor, not so much for fertility.

  Susan: well, there's a couple things. One, it creates uterine receptivity. So You also get improved lubrication and increased cervical mucosal production, which aids in, you know, [00:23:00] moving the sperm up toward the cervix. So

  Susan: that's important.

  Michelle: Now, before, actually, before we go into this, talk about what oxytocin is, just for people who are hearing it for the first time.

  Susan: Yeah, oxytocin is not Oxycontin.

  Michelle: Yes,

  Susan: a

  Michelle: right. Different oxy.

  Susan: It's a hormone, it's a master hormone. It's actually a master signaling molecule in your body. It actually regulates a lot of your estrogen modulation as well. It's also kind of, you could think about it like the anti antidote to cortisol. It lowers your stress. And cortisol is a fertility blocker, so you wanna make sure that you are getting enough oxytocin. And the problem is that oxytocin is. It's the hormone that definitely bonds you to your infant. You make it during breastfeeding. You make it during skin to skin contact with your male partner. Women are generating more oxytocin than their male partner.

  Susan: So men [00:24:00] really need it from us to lower their stress, which is why sex lowers their stress. One of the biggest reasons. There's many reasons. But that's an important one. And then oxytocin is really interesting because. It's made by your adrenals and your gut together. So you know how most of, so much of our. Hormones are made in our gut, not just, you know, in our adrenals and things like that or our ovaries for estrogen or our testicles for testosterone or what have you. It's interesting that oxytocin is a very fragile molecule because the bacteria that makes it is a very delicate bacteria called lactobacillus rooti. And it's a, it's a milk-based lac, you know, lactobacillus and like lacto. Like milk and anytime we've taken antibiotics, we've killed off a lot, if not all of our [00:25:00] lactobacillus ide, and we've all pretty much been subject to having to take antibiotics in the modern world. And so we tend to be low oxytocin producers.

  Susan: When you start to feed your gut with lactobacillus Rooti, you start to generate oxytocin again, and then all of a sudden you are, you feel closer to your husband, you feel closer to your other children, you feel closer to your family, you feel closer to. Friends, you start to find awe in things. You tend to feel more emotion, positive, pro-social emotions, people annoy you less, which we need in our world today. Because there's a lot of external forces annoy, irking the shit out of all of us right. now, and that's a problem. We also need it to appreciate art and nature and beauty. We start to lose that, and then it attenuates our happiness, and then [00:26:00] we feel a little depressed. And so it's very good for feeling distant, disconnected, depressed, sad annoyed by people stressed out.

  Susan: The way that I do it is I follow Dr. William Davis' recipes for the yogurt. That, and I'd be happy to introduce you to Dr. Bill. He is such a doll.

  Susan: And

  Michelle: um, did he read Super Gut

  Susan: Yeah. Super?

  Susan: gut wheat belly un doctored.

  Michelle: Amazing.

  Susan: Oh, I'll introduce you to him. He's, he will do your show. He's the most beautiful man. I love him so

  Michelle: I, I, his book was fascinating.

  Susan: Yep, he is.

  Susan: And he taught me and a million other women how to make oxytocin yogurt at home. And I use a luli maker. And I just inoculate, I use milk, but you can also use nut milks 'cause I also make nut milk at home. I make it with

  Susan: my

  Susan: almond

  Michelle: milk.

  Susan: Coconut milk. I just don't like [00:27:00] all the trash from all the milk containers, so I just make my own.

  Susan: I don't want the thickeners and all the garbage

  Michelle: Exactly. No, but they have um, I found, native Forest, they do not add anything for, and it's organic coconut milk.

  Susan: That's good. And you're still making trash, Well, you're still filling up a landfill.

  Michelle: but this is true. This is true. I see what you're saying. Yeah.

  Susan: Making your own nut milk is the easiest thing in the world with an almond cow nut milk maker. You just throw the nuts in with some water, it spins it up, and you got nut milk.

  Michelle: That's awesome.

  Susan: It's, and what's nice is you can make your nut milk combinations, like you can put the mac, a little macadamia nut in there with

  Susan: your cashews.

  Susan: It's called the almond cow.

  Michelle: Oh, that's awesome. I It's, it's So fricking good

  Michelle: is why I love having this podcast. I

  Susan: I know you learn so many things, Right. Yeah.

  Susan: And then I make my own yogurt. I make it with half and half 'cause I like the fat 'cause I like that fatty 15 Pentec NOIC acid, which is so good for your heart health that comes [00:28:00] from fat milk. But it's, you know, it's made into yogurt so it's, it's good for you.

  Susan: And it's inoculated with the lactobacillus ide, which you, I make mine for 48 hours. And on on a hundred degrees. And so it's high colonizing units, so you're getting a lot of root eye. And so sometimes like the small, some days I'll make like yogurt with berries, a little bit of like sprouted granola and my collagen powder and my creatine and my protein whe and I mix it all together and I eat it for breakfast.

  Michelle: awesome.

  Susan: But this morning I had a bunch of cut up peaches and so I made a peach smoothie with my almond cow almond milk, my, my Lactobacillus Ri yogurt, and then all those other powders that I put in it, you know, that I use for my health, for my body building and my

  Michelle: It's a lot easier than it sounds.

  Michelle: I will say this, if [00:29:00] anybody's a stack of powder things, you throw 'em in with some nut milk and some yogurt and some fruit, and you're done,

  Michelle: Yeah, they have yogurt makers on Amazon. You can find all kinds and it just basically keeps it at a certain temperature for two days.

  Susan: Yeah. The one I recommend is Lu Valley,

  Susan: L-U-V-E-L-E because it will do a hundred degree temperature hold. It does a hundred, a hundred, and it does it like 80. Something a hundred and 104. Most yogurt makers make yogurt really fast, and so they're at too high a temperature and they kill off the lactobacillus root ide.

  Susan: That's how delicate it is. Once you get your oxytocin stores reestablished, it changes your life. It's nuts. When you go from being low in oxytocin to high in oxytocin, you literally shift your joy. It is

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Susan: crazy. So I think oxytocin is very [00:30:00] important for women trying to conceive, but It's also just important for alls y'alls, right?

  Susan: Like feed it to your husband, feed it to your kids. It's super good.

  Michelle: It's so good. I can't even tell you. So it's, it's so interesting because oxytocin raises around ovulation and it raises around for women and it raises after orgasm and there's just, you know, it has to have an element for conception and Chinese medicine. There's a direct relation and connection between the heart and the uterus.

  Michelle: And oxytocin's the love hormone opens the heart. So in order to open the uterus, you need to open the heart. So when do we open the uterus? We open it for menstruation. We open it to receive life, and we open it to give life. Once you have life, you open it for labor. And what does oxytocin do? It actually starts the labor process and contractions.

  Michelle: So there's so much more to oxytocin [00:31:00] than people are hearing. And I find it fascinating. I love that you're talking about this 'cause not everybody talks about this.

  Susan: Yeah. well, bill taught me everything, bill and Dr. Lindsay Berkson. I don't know if you know Dr. Lindsay, Vicki Berkson. I could introduce you to her too. She is a hormone scholar. She wrote a really good book on oxytocin, or she wrote a really good book on hormones called Sexy Brain, which is really interesting.

  Susan: And she's working on a book on oxytocin, as is Bill. So you know, it's. It's just gonna, we're gonna become more and more and more aware of the benefits of oxytocin. It changed my life, like I'm a, I'm an entirely different, happier, more calm, more grounded, more in love person. Now it has really opened my heart.

  Michelle: That's amazing and I think that that's what it is. It's like you can really, and this is what I always say, I say it sounds. Crazy for people who are really [00:32:00] in the thick of it and kind of stressed out through the fertility journey. When you're first initially going through the doctor's visits and everything gets taken out, like almost the romance of life gets taken out.

  Michelle: But I say that there, there can be a time where you can actually find that joy back before baby, before having that goal and just having that, that part, the joy is what really. Will open you up even more to that conception. And there was a study that was even done. Laughter therapy and how laughter therapy improves the chances of conception where IVF transfers succeeding.

  Michelle: So it's really fascinating and that also opens the heart. It also opens that, that joy and that ultimately when we're in that state of joy, we're present in the present moment. It's almost like a, this is what comes to my mind. Stop and smell the orgasm.

  Susan: Ah, that's so [00:33:00] cute. Yeah.

  Susan: I think I would have been a better mother. Not that I was a bad mother. I was a good mother. But I would've had more joy in my motherhood had I had better oxytocin stores. They were, they were very, I can tell, I know they were low compared to how I feel now that I've re, you know, reestablished my oxytocin stores and I eat that yogurt. So I think that that's a very interesting thing, is that you're also going to enjoy motherhood more if you establish, reestablish your oxytocin production.

  Michelle: So

  Susan: And you'll be less annoyed by your husband, which is helpful too.

  Michelle: Of course, you'll be less annoyed by a lot of

  Michelle: things.

  Susan: all people, which is really nice.

  Michelle: It is really nice and I, I will also, also meditation. I'm very big on Joe Depen on one of the things that he talks about a lot in his retreats or his meditations. He really [00:34:00] focuses on the heart center and HeartMath. And so when you're connecting and having that, and even like the meta meditation, so when you get into this kind of state of loving, you know, even cuddling with your pet, you know, those kind of things naturally can induce oxytocin.

  Susan: Yeah. Well, it's funny too, because I was thinking about, you know, when I started this conversation with you, I said, what I do is I write heart connected, conscious, passionate, love making techniques. I was, that's literally, I've said that phrase a gazillion times because that's what I do.

  Susan: My, that's like my tagline. I transform having sex into making love.

  Michelle: Yes.

  Susan: Because all we see is porn, male dominated views of what sexuality is, intercourse or oriented. So like me coming here on your show and talking about eating [00:35:00] yogurt and having yoni massages is a very. Different exper and having, you know, sex dates where you learn things while you're making love, rather than you're just doing the old, eh, eh, eh, which you do that for 11 years.

  Susan: Tell me if you wanna still have sex with your husband. I didn't. It wasn't good enough for me to just do that. Even if I had one orga, it wouldn't have been enough. I like too many other things. I need a lot more fun in bed. And speaking of fun. Here's a little piece of wisdom that was handed down, which goes exactly with what you were saying, and that is that, when we were trying to conceive and we struggled for a few years, I my, my girlfriend said, well, what we did when we were trying to get pregnant, we struggled, was we would make love. And then I would lie there and I would put my butt up on a pillow and my, my husband and I would say, go, guys. Go. Go, guys.

  Susan: Go. And we would do this little like [00:36:00] chant to encourage the sperm to make it up through the cervix and impregnate

  Susan: me. And we did that.

  Susan: one time and I conceived after years of trying from Go guys, go. Just from having fun with it, relaxing and having fun. It also helped that I quit my entrepreneurial job and I got a job with a company and I got pregnant almost right away because I didn't have to make payroll every week anymore, which was

  Susan: stressful for

  Michelle: got out of survival.

  Susan: Yes. I got out of survival, so that was good too, but I think it was Go guys, go.

  Michelle: Yes. That's amazing. I love it. You are so much fun. I'm really

  Susan: Oh girl, you don't know the half of it.

  Michelle: oh, I'm sure I am sure. That's great. But honestly, but that's what it is. It's like full of life. And that's, that really comes down to, it's not [00:37:00] just, it's not just about the pleasure, it's the pleasure of life. 'cause it can obviously be in the bedroom, but.

  Michelle: You're talking about embodying it and really having that oxytocin in your life and you know, you can start to enjoy the moments and there's more romance and joy in life in general. And that to me is life giving. 'cause when you're in the present moment, you have more of that life force vitality flowing.

  Susan: Definitely. That's the heart connection. You can't be somewhere else. Connected in heart.

  Michelle: Oh, I love that. That is so good.

  Susan: And conscious. Conscious is we're here together in this moment, and we're not just connected to each other. We're connected to all. We're connected to Gaia, we're connected to source, lovemaking, orgasmic bliss, the conjoin trance, state of pleasure.

  Susan: These connect us to [00:38:00] all that is conscious.

  Michelle: Yes.

  Susan: And when you conceive your baby with those, you know those qualities, you're making a beautiful baby.

  Michelle: That's amazing. I love that. Yeah, it's it, well, I always say love is life giving. It has that, there's a different energy. So it's kind of like, are you identified with just the material, the physical. Or is there that something else? Because if we were just physical, then cadavers would walk and they don't, and what is that extra something that makes us move and that connection that warms our bodies, you know, that's that Life force Qi Vitality.

  Michelle: So we are way more than that physical envelope envelope that we we're, you know, walking around in.

  Susan: exactly. I do love my Qi.

  Michelle: Oh yeah, the chi overflows.

  Susan: Yeah.

  Michelle: That is awesome. So for people listening to this that are like, I want more, [00:39:00]

  Susan: Yeah.

  Michelle: can they find you? Like, how can they like find your offerings? What are, what are, give us all the things.

  Susan: It's easy. Better lover.com. That's what I teach people how to do, is how to become a better lover because better lovers are made not born. Some people have good kinesthetic skills, which helps. Some people have to develop that.

  Susan: but generally. Anybody can make a baby. Procreation is not generally difficult.

  Susan: It's a penis in a vagina, some semen, and you get a baby. Sometimes you get more babies than you want, right? I mean, it's, it, Yes. there's a lot that goes into it. There's a lot of things you can do. We live in a more stressful world now, but generally. It's a pretty straightforward process, but making love, having 20 kinds of orgasms, having skills, knowing your anatomy, how to know what you want and ask for [00:40:00] it, how to do oral pleasuring, orgasmic intercourse, I mean, all the things.

  Susan: How to have a sex life that keeps getting better over time instead of swirling down the toilet. It doesn't come from doing tab A into slot B over and over and over again. Comes from having a sex life bucket list, having novelty and variety, being willing to communicate, being willing to learn, trying things, finding your freaks, you know, and there's lots of 'em, and they're fun and they change.

  Susan: As you mature, you get better in bed. As you get older, you get better. At orgasming, you get better at everything. Good sex and being a better lover is a lifetime mastery op opportunity. And one that keeps you living longer. Having a healthier and happier life because when you extend your sex span, you extend your health [00:41:00] span.

  Susan: So if you wanna have a baby with this person and you wanna have a great life together, having great. Intimacy is a cornerstone to keeping that going. So why not start with this opportunity where you have these windows to hit? Have fun in the windows.

  Michelle: I love it. This

  Susan: Good.

  Michelle: This is probably really what. Of my top episodes. It was a lot of fun.

  Susan: Oh, I'm

  Michelle: Yeah. And you're really good at what you do and you're good at describing it. You like really hit the points perfectly. So it was really enjoyable for me. I

  Michelle: have to say

  Michelle: I enjoyed it. I know that almost sounds like it has more meaning,

  Susan: Nope, it

  Susan: sounds good.

  Michelle: Yeah. No, but but this is amazing. So thank you so much Susan for coming on. I really enjoyed this episode.

  Susan: Me too. Thank you so much. Love you and love and appreciate all the [00:42:00] work that you do.

  Michelle: Same here. Awesome.

Ep 353 A Wildflower Spoke to Me: What Actually Happens at a Joe Dispenza Retreat

In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m sharing my personal experience attending my fourth week-long Joe Dispenza retreat. From spontaneous moments of connection with the quantum field to powerful coherence healing experiences, I’ll walk you through what actually happens at these retreats and how Dr. Joe blends science and spirituality to help people transform and heal. I’ll also share the unexpected manifestation that left me speechless… and how I’ve started writing affirmations into thin air (yes, really!). Whether you're on a healing journey, exploring meditation, or just curious about how your mind shapes your reality, this episode is filled with practical inspiration, quantum insights, and deep personal reflection.

Key Takeaways: 

• What it’s really like to attend a Joe Dispenza week-long retreat (and why they sell out so quickly)

• How Dr. Joe bridges quantum physics, neuroscience, and ancient wisdom

• The science behind the breathwork technique that activates the pineal gland

• Why becoming “nothing” during meditation is actually the path to transformation

• A real-life manifestation story involving a wild yellow flower

• The role of coherence healing and how it’s helping people shift physically and emotionally

• How letting go of control is key—especially on the fertility journey

• A simple technique to encode intentions using your finger in the air (yes, it works!)

• Why you don’t have to attend a retreat to benefit from the work
  

If you’re curious about how to quiet your mind and gently support your body with mindset tools, my Rooted Membership is designed for you. It’s a space where I share hypnosis audios, meditations, and mindset practices to bring calm to your fertility journey. You can even try it free for 7 days and see how it feels. https://www.michelleoravitz.com/rooted-fertility-mindset-membership 

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

• Transcript

  [00:00:00] Episode number 3 53 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orvi, and today I am going to be doing something that I've been doing in the past, which is having a little summary of my experience at a Joe Dispenser retreat, and I have just completed my fourth week long retreat at Joe Dispenses.

  And of course, I have a lot of interesting kind of feedback. Coming back and I also wanted to talk to you about what he does and how it's impacted so many lives, and it's just really fascinating work. So stay tuned.

  Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility journey.

  Michelle: [00:01:00] So today I am talking about Joe Dispenza and my experience on the fourth week long retreat. So all in all, I've had four week long retreats and there are seven days of meditation instruction getting together with lots of different people and also doing a coherence healing or a couple of them. And it's a really, really amazing experience.

  Michelle: And then I also, on top of that, went to a fifth. But it was a shorter follow up retreat, which is about four days doing similar, but a little more advanced things than the week long. So if you guys are not familiar with Dr. Joe De Spencer's work, his work really is amazing in the sense that he bridges science and spirituality and I think like really how his main objective is to help people change.

  Michelle: What that means is literally we know we have this identification, and the idea is that we have this identification in a certain body, and when we have certain patterns and we [00:02:00] become that personality or that certain type of person not only embodies an identification, but it also has a lot of other things that go along with it.

  Michelle: And part of what he sees, or in his research is that. Part of it is how our bodies respond and reflect and express themselves, and that can have certain patterns of diseases or imbalances that show up as specific conditions. And many people who go to his retreats or even implement his work, like his meditations heal.

  Michelle: So that's really what's amazing about it, is that. They are finding lots of data and testimonials of people that go to his retreats and do this meditation, and he has a very specific breath and they heal from their conditions after being told that they can't really do that. With what's available. So that being said, a lot of people that go to this are also having doctors oversee their [00:03:00] conditions.

  Michelle: So they're not doing this instead of going to the doctor and seeking medical care. So this is many times a complimentary to trying to heal with many different types of medicine. And many different approaches. So the books that he has written thus far, the most common ones, uh, that you'll probably hear about, and there's probably other ones that are out there, but the most common ones that you'll probably hear about are how to break the habit of being yourself.

  Michelle: And that really focuses on changing and why we don't change as humans, why it feels so uncomfortable to change and really. How to overcome that because when our subconscious mind is so used to a certain pattern, then it really feels painful to change that. It feels very unsafe to shift course when you're adding a new behavior or changing the way you're thinking it's going to feel.

  Michelle: Very uncomfortable at first until the body gets used to [00:04:00] it. So other books that he's written about are You Are the Placebo and that's a really fascinating book. Talking about really mind, body, and how the placebo has always been looked at as a nuisance when it comes to research because they were trying to overcome the placebo 'cause it got in the way of them seeing if the medicine worked because the mind is so powerful.

  Michelle: But what is interesting is that. This is an amazing thing. It's not a nuisance. It's actually something that needs more attention and needs more research in its own because this tells us that the mind can really impact us physiologically. So the book shares a lot of different research and a lot of different case studies.

  Michelle: How the mind is so powerful and it can really shift so much in the body. And then another book that he has, which is also another very well-known book, is Becoming Supernatural, and that also is an amazing book. So all his books really talk a lot [00:05:00] about what he's seen at his, in his research, and in his week-long retreats and other in-person retreats.

  Michelle: What's amazing about his retreats is usually they sell out, and I would say it depends. It's maybe anywhere from 1500 people to 2000 people. Depending on the venue and what they do is, uh, many times they'll get a certain amount of people that sign up to be part of the research, and there's a research team that works there at the retreats and they will check.

  Michelle: People's blood. They will take their stool samples to look at their microbiome. They check genetics and ins insert like a little swab in the cheek and they'll, they'll really do a lot of different data points and they also check a person's e, EG. So they'll look at the brain waves. Of the meditators and they find a lot of really amazing things, and they've already had some studies they don't really like for [00:06:00] you to videotape or anything like that, but they have had studies published, so you can actually see that on Dr.

  Michelle: Joe's website. They have some studies published and they talk about some of the studies that they're doing. It's really fascinating work. It's showing that literally major changes are happening in the body. And besides even their research, just getting people's stories and hearing their testimonials are mind blowing.

  Michelle: So the way Dr. Joe teaches is he tries to give you an understanding based on a lot of quantum physics and even just scientific aspects of our minds, and really to understand and put information and. A purpose to what we're about to do. So when he gives us information, we can then apply meaning, and then we apply meaning to an act, which is the meditation and the breath.

  Michelle: We're not just doing something blindly. So he's amazing in that sense because he really educates us. Based on facts, and then he does [00:07:00] whatever it is that he's teaching. So these things are not just haphazard. He doesn't use a lot of spiritual terms either because he wants to use science as kind of like the way he approaches it.

  Michelle: And by doing that, he feels that science is the language of everybody can really connect on. Whereas if you get spiritual or use certain words that are too out there for some people, you're gonna lose a good amount of the population. Plus it is really amazing when science is catching up to a lot of old wisdom that has been taught about thousands of years.

  Michelle: So it's really fascinating to see that a lot of these things do actually have connections with spirituality, teachings that have been passed along for. Thousands of years, like Kundalini, and he talks about energy centers and he uses the word energy centers rather than chakras, but ultimately they are referring to chakras.

  Michelle: But he talks about them more in matter of fact of what is happening in the body [00:08:00] and really putting our attention. Onto certain areas of our body. Now, we haven't been taught this in schools. This is not something that anybody's really like come in contact. In the average mainstream. We're really not taught about how important our attention is and where our attention goes.

  Michelle: It really impacts our bodies and really our lives. Now, there is definitely research coming out there that talks about how our minds and our thoughts can really impact our bodies. There's been studies that have shown that visualizations really impact our bodies and it really makes a difference on the outcome of our life too.

  Michelle: Writing things down, really putting our intention out there. So these are things that we have, but we don't really know that we can use them. And so his work, he's very passionate about showing us. As humans, what we're able and capable of doing. So when it comes to fertility, and the reason why I love this so much is because for me, one of my core messages for my [00:09:00] patients and my clients and my audience really, 'cause I have the podcast, is that I want people to realize that they have more power than they might think.

  Michelle: That being said, it shouldn't take any place of medical advice or going to the doctor and doing kind of like regular real life things, but that's not what he's saying either. He's not saying to take a place of anything else. This is an addition to. What you're doing. But having that as an addition too, it could be very empowering, knowing that our minds can really make a difference.

  Michelle: Why not utilize that aspect of our life and body? So my personal experience was really interesting and a lot of what he focuses on is this breath. And the breath is basically when you exhale completely out of your lungs from your nose, and then you tighten up the area in your. Space chakra, that you tighten that area as you're exhaling and then as you're inhaling, you're [00:10:00] tightening all these different areas in your energy centers and really tightening up as you're inhaling and imagining that you're drawing up energy that we usually hold in our lower centers, which is really survival.

  Michelle: And he teaches a lot about that. Like a lot of us have that energy and is kind of sitting there pulling in the bottom area. And so we're pulling that energy and slowly by, slowly through our breath, and you're doing this like repeatedly throughout the week, you're pulling that energy and tightening at the same time all the way up through the top of your, into the sixth center, which is really the penial gland in the middle of your brain.

  Michelle: And you can watch a lot of videos on this. You can find tons and even ones where Joe Dispen. Speaks specifically about how to do the breath. You can even find this on his website if you're interested. I would definitely recommend doing that. And so by doing that, you're actually activating a lot of energy that is sitting [00:11:00] dormant in the lower centers.

  Michelle: So it's kind of like the energy centers that connect with our spine. A lot of what I do in Chinese medicine, we actually do also work on the spine as well, and that correlates to the same thing. What's interesting to me is that there's so many different backgrounds and so many different philosophies, and a lot of times if you really look at some of the ancient information and the ancient wisdom, they all point to very similar things.

  Michelle: So that's what I find really fascinating about this. But he's doing this in a little bit more of a modern way. So people are able to relate to the information a little bit more easily. So that's one of the things he always does many times with many of the meditations to prep before the meditation. And what that does is it stimulates your penial gland, which is in the center of your brain, and that he describes, has crystals in them.

  Michelle: And it also is like a radio receiver. So it's able to pick up on messages. And what's interesting to [00:12:00] me about that personally is that when I began meditating like about 20 some years ago, I really started to meditate a lot. And the more I would meditate, the more I would sit kind of in peace and quiet, and I would focus on like sensations in my body.

  Michelle: And a lot of times I would focus on like the crown of my head and the area around my head, or the area between my eyebrows when I did that. One day, like little by little, I started to feel just this natural feeling like I was drinking light through the top of my head. It was really interesting. It was like I felt like I was literally drinking gulping light at the top of my head, and it was a very spontaneous feeling that I had.

  Michelle: It's not something that was repeated, but it was something that I felt. And I said, I have no idea what this is, but I'm just feeling really good with it and I'm just gonna keep doing it. I'm just like, I have no idea what this is, but I feel like I'm downloading information. [00:13:00] And I started to feel in my real life out outside of meditation.

  Michelle: That I was getting downloads, getting information, getting information that I had no idea where it came from. And then years later when I started talking to other meditators, they would say, they would talk about these downloads. And I totally understood what that meant because I feel like people say that for a reason.

  Michelle: 'cause there's no other way to really describe what that is. But you're getting downloads of information when he talks about being a radio receiver. You're literally working on that antenna, and when you're getting quiet in meditation, you're able to connect with that. So his type of meditation is different than what I'm talking about, what I started.

  Michelle: So meditation in general, there's so many different types, and part of that meditation is really getting quiet. And a lot of ancient teachings talk about also becoming non-self, like letting [00:14:00] go of your identity. And it's really interesting. It's like this emptying, this unbecoming, like this, releasing from any kind of identification that we had.

  Michelle: We're really releasing from the clutches of your ego, which is very, very strong in that identification. It wants to know the known and it wants to have control. So what Joe Dispenza talks about is getting to this place of this unknown, and he always, many times the majority of his meditations, I don't even know that there's any that don't do this.

  Michelle: He gets into this place of nothingness and he. Has you really let go and become nothing so that you end up in a space of no time, no one, no thing, no nothing. And that has happened to me just spontaneously with my meditations before I actually got into his work. And when I was drinking that light, I was like in no place.

  Michelle: I just like completely surrendered myself. And in [00:15:00] so doing, it's really interesting how the ego will let you feel. It'll fight that because it doesn't wanna be nothing. It feels, uh, very scared to let go. And part of that is also our plans and I can kind of attribute it, you know, to how the fertility journey could be, is really our plans and our need for control of what's gonna happen.

  Michelle: And so. It's interesting how you'll get convinced through your thoughts that that is how you'll have control, but ultimately the power comes from letting go. Also, you do both you, you act and you also let go. It's kind of like that, that balance. And so he puts you in this place where you're completely nothing.

  Michelle: You're letting go. And as you're doing this, and I find personally as I've been doing this, I actually feel a sense of relief. I'll tell you why. Because for that moment I can let go of everything. Kind of like all of the responsibilities, [00:16:00] the heaviness of just life. It started to feel very freeing to just completely let go of my identity.

  Michelle: 'cause I know that it's a short time that I'm doing it. It's just during the meditation and I'm like, okay. Agreeing, I'm making an agreement with myself that during this time I can feel free to let go. And so little by little I'm training myself to feel safe in that place. And when you're doing that, you're actually allowing your nervous system to kind of reset itself.

  Michelle: Because you're moving away that pressure of your thoughts and your mind, and you're allowing your nervous system to reset itself and to feel free and to kind of like wander and through that you have access to information because again, you have this radio receiver. You're allowing yourself a state where you're able to bring that information down and that information can help you physically to rewire your body, to rebalance your body.

  Michelle: You're getting into that [00:17:00] state. Where you're able to actually receive that into your physiology, but then you're also able to do that in just your intuition and. What your next steps would be in life to be guided. So I find that really, really fascinating. So he has many different meditations and some of them are really balancing the energy centers and the other ones are actually working on creativity and manifesting, on bringing in and tuning in states of consciousness that you would like to have.

  Michelle: And so the idea, which actually is very much in link with Kabbalah. Is that there's multiple timelines and there's many infinite possibilities in the quantum field. And getting to the quantum field requires us to let go of everything we know here in this physical. 3D reality. So we're in this 3D reality.

  Michelle: The more we respond and react to this 3D reality, we are making it more real. The idea is when we take [00:18:00] ourselves away from that, temporarily go into this place of like nothingness, then we're opening ourselves up. We're going into the control center. And then we're able to access these infinite possibilities, and then we can see that happening, whatever it is that we want really to bring in.

  Michelle: We just keep doing it little by little until we get into from there into our reality. But typically what we do is, is we actually see ourselves as victims to this reality rather than realizing that our consciousness is contributing to the reality. And what's fascinating is that. This concept has been seen as new agey and woo woo for a very long time, and now he is actually bridging science with these concepts and bringing it really to parallel with quantum physics and a lot of quantum physics aligns with a lot of kabbalistic.

  Michelle: Teachings, but also some of the Buddhist teachings as well, [00:19:00] which I personally find really, really fascinating. So before we go, I wanna talk to you about a couple of things that happened. So I went with my daughter, I was finally able to convince her to come. To a Dr. Joe Dispenza retreat because I think that whether she realizes now or not the benefits of the teachings, it'll stay with her really forever.

  Michelle: So she'll always kind of come back to it if she needs to. She understands the concepts, she understands that her mind really makes a difference and her reality based on the science and what he's really shared. So I thought that was just so amazing. But then, um, we also do these walking meditations because he says that.

  Michelle: It's not enough to just think about these things and visualize them, but it's actually like when you're closing your eyes and you envision something and then you open your eyes and you walk and you walk as it. And when you're doing the walking meditations in the retreats, you're kind of in a bubble.

  Michelle: You're with a lot of other people that are doing the walking meditations. Everybody's walking around like. Totally zoned in [00:20:00] sometimes dancing, and you don't care what you look like because everybody's in the same boat, and it's so freeing to be around so many people that are in the same exact boat and nobody's gonna judge you.

  Michelle: So for that alone, it's amazing. And then they block off streets and you're really protected. So we were in Denver at the time and before my walking meditation, we were doing something called tuning into your Potentials, which means You're bringing in an object of any kind, just bringing it into your 3D reality.

  Michelle: So you're actually bringing that projection. Into your reality. So typically I'll always think about something deeper. You know, a bigger thing that I wanna change in my life. But this time I said, you know what, I'm not gonna do that. This time I'm just gonna focus on a yellow flower. So I focus on this yellow flower.

  Michelle: And then I remember in my mind, during the meditation thinking, what should it look like? Should it look like this, that, and I [00:21:00] kept like thinking in my mind all these different things about how it should look. And then this kind of inner wisdom whispered to me, let it go. Don't worry about how it's gonna look.

  Michelle: Just focus on the yellow flower. Just bring that out there. So I said, okay, let it go. So. Fast forward to the walking meditation. I think it was a day or two after, and I started walking and doing the walking meditation. Usually he starts you with your eyes closed, you're focusing on his, uh, guidance, and you're, you're basically standing up with doing the meditation with your eyes closed.

  Michelle: Then he says, open your eyes. Look around. Then walk, and then you walk and then he starts to have music. It's very powerful and really gets you into this walking meditation saying Walk as it, and really focusing on who you wanna be. And then at one point he says, okay, hold it. And then I'm walking. Usually he has, uh, these streets blocked off.

  Michelle: So in [00:22:00] this specific place, he had streets blocked off and on the side of the streets there were areas where it was really kind of like wild weeds growing everywhere. And it was just kind of random. So I closed my eyes, I walk away from the street a little bit and then I kind of like stand facing out 'cause there are still people walking.

  Michelle: Everybody's at a different timeline on their meditations. So I would. Close my eyes and I look out and I have my eyes closed completely. You have no idea what even I'm facing, and I close my eyes. I do the meditation. Then he says, open your eyes. And I open my eyes, and the first thing I see right in front of my eyes is this beautiful yellow wild flower and this flower, I mean, I didn't see flowers around it.

  Michelle: I saw a couple small ones right next to it. But the big one was right in front of my eyes and I was just shocked. 'cause for [00:23:00] that moment, not only did I see the flower, but I felt like the universe was speaking to me because the way the flower looked, had almost, it looked like a sunflower and it looked like an eye, looked like an iris looking back at me.

  Michelle: And it was, it dawned on me even before I realized it looked like an eye. I thought about that actually after. Even before that, as I'm sitting there looking and I was like, thank you. I know you see me. I know you hear me. Like you are aware of me. And I think that that was the biggest aha for me at that moment, is that the universe is aware of us and the universe is aware of our thoughts, even though we don't think it is.

  Michelle: So that to me was the mind blowing. Message that I got and took with me and I'm gonna take with me forever. So that was one of the things that really caught my eye. And then when I came home, I. Told myself, I'm gonna start [00:24:00] writing things down. But I always feel like it's kind of a pain to do because I need my, notebook and I need to find it and make the time.

  Michelle: So now I came up with this new thing and I'm gonna share it with you guys. What I started to do is, is when I'm doing something alone, instead of writing something down with a pen and paper, I just in script it into. The air. So I basically move my finger into the air and say whatever it is that I want to say for the day.

  Michelle: So if it means that I feel amazing, I feel strong, whatever it is that you wanna like really bring out into the day or into your life. You can write it down. I am like, say something in its current time, like as if it's already happened. So I am, and you can say whatever it is, and you're literally writing it into the energy around you.

  Michelle: So inscribing it into the air. And so this is something that I. Decided to do. And then I realized, okay, what happens if I run outta space? I just go in circles until I finish [00:25:00] writing whatever it is I wanna write. And I look a little crazy doing it, but I do it most of the time alone, and it really feels powerful.

  Michelle: So it was something that I thought to share with you guys as well. So that was. My experience with the Joe Dispenser retreat, I definitely highly recommend looking into his work. His work really works, literally, and it's something that I find really fascinating. So I would definitely look into his books, look into trying his meditations.

  Michelle: If you can't go to an actual workshop. You could still heal. He showed us testimonials on people who have healed before they even went to a workshop. So you can heal doing the work before even going, you don't even have to go. So that's really fascinating. And then another thing is you can actually submit an application to have a coherence healing, which is all virtual and live so.

  Michelle: People swear by it. People say that they've really felt a big [00:26:00] difference by doing those. So you can do that and you can find it on his website as well. So thank you so much for tuning in today, and I hope you have a beautiful day. [00:27:00]

Ep 352 Why Depletion Impacts Fertility After Baby with Brooke Harmer

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Brooke Harmer (@thewellnourishedmama_), the founder of The Well Nourished Mama, a nutritionist and postpartum health expert who supports women through pregnancy, postpartum, and beyond. Brooke’s journey began as a food blogger helping college students eat well on a budget, but after becoming a mother herself, she shifted her focus to helping women heal nutritionally after birth and prepare their bodies for future pregnancies.

In this conversation, we explore how pregnancy, birth, and postpartum dramatically shift a woman’s biochemistry, gut microbiome, and hormonal balance, and why many women facing secondary infertility are actually experiencing a deep nutritional depletion. Brooke shares the foundational habits and healing foods that help rebuild nutrient stores and support fertility, whether it’s your first or third time trying to conceive.

From bone broth and Brazil nuts to the power of minerals and full-fat dairy, this episode is packed with essential advice for replenishing the body and preparing for a thriving pregnancy.

🎧 Tune in if you’re navigating secondary infertility, prepping for conception after baby, or simply want to learn how to nourish your body through all seasons of motherhood.

Key Takeaways: 

• Postpartum depletion can significantly impact future fertility.

• The body undergoes major gut, immune, and hormonal shifts during pregnancy and childbirth.

• Healing takes time, more than the traditional 6 weeks postpartum.

• Eating 3 well-balanced meals a day is foundational for hormone and fertility health.

• Minerals and full-fat foods are essential for restoring the body’s cellular function and hormonal balance.
  

If you’re curious about how to quiet your mind and gently support your body with mindset tools, my Rooted Membership is designed for you. It’s a space where I share hypnosis audios, meditations, and mindset practices to bring calm to your fertility journey. You can even try it free for 7 days and see how it feels. https://www.michelleoravitz.com/rooted-fertility-mindset-membership 

Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.

For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com

Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility!

https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility

The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

• Transcript

  Michelle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast, Brooke.

  Brooke: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

  Michelle: Yes, me too. So I'd love for you, first of all, I always like to ask for the origin story and how you got into the work that you're doing. So I'd love to have you share that

  Brooke: Sure. I started out as a food blogger in college. I was just really passionate about helping poor college kids figure out how to eat healthy on a budget. So I started my blog and I got into food photography and did that for a little while.

  And then after I had my first baby, I realized that a lot of moms were looking for nutritional support for their milk supply. And so while I was kind of navigating that on my own. I started to dabble into that and eventually it morphed into full-blown mom content. , And really just diving deep into nutrition for moms.

  My specialty is postpartum, but I primarily work with pregnancy and postpartum. . [00:01:00] And now my content is centered around empowering moms to take a proactive approach to their health and also learn how to work with their healthcare providers and myself to get the best healthcare possible. A lot of people feel like it's either that they're doctors or the the functional medicine woo woo people over in this corner, or just stepping away from medicine altogether, and I don't believe in that.

  I believe that we should have a big team. On our side, and everyone has their own expertise, and so I'm here to add my own expertise when it comes to nutrition and lifestyle, specifically for the motherhood stage of your life. Because what I found is a lot of the things that we typically hear. From the health and wellness space, don't really apply to us moms because our nutritional needs are different.

  , We do not have the same 24 hours in the day that other people have. , And just really trying to understand how to take care of ourselves so that we [00:02:00] can show up and be the best moms for our families that we can.

  Michelle: Awesome. So the reason why I really thought that you'd bring so much value is because most of the time we're talking just on fertility and as if you've never had babies. But I know because I've had a lot of people reach out that a lot of people listening to this have. Secondary infertility, which is they already have babies and they wanna grow their family, but they're finding that it's not as easy as it was for their first baby, and they're trying again, and things aren't working the way they want it to.

  And from a t cm perspective, we look at like the body and pregnancy and childbearing. Really take, take a toll on your qi and your blood and Chinese medicine, which are very important for future fertility. So you can get really, really depleted. So I thought what you are offering is something kind of unique to what we've had before because I was always kind of like [00:03:00] focusing just on fertility as if you've never been pregnant before.

  But the reality is, is a lot of people listening to this have had kids before. And sometimes that in itself can be so depleting. So I thought that some of what you're offering and the things that your, your perspective can really help with secondary infertility. So I'm sure that you see this as well. I mean that the whole pregnancy process can be very depleting.

  And what are some of the things that you address for that to support people who have already had a baby, but like, are. Planning or trying, , for another one, or at least at the very least, really supporting their nutrients so that they're not as depleted and they can kind of like fill that reserve.

  Brooke: Yeah, I love how you're tying it all together because it's not, it's not just the fertility stage and then it's not just the pregnancy [00:04:00] stage. It all ebbs and flows together and it kind of creates a domino effect. So if you have been pregnant before. gut microbiome goes through these transformational changes to make sure that your body keeps your baby safe and hopefully keeps it to term, and then that your body is okay at the end of pregnancy as well.

  So there's a lot of immune system changes, a lot of gut microbiome changes that are inherently happening that we don't really see. Except through common pregnancy symptoms and what we've been taught in the past is, well, that's just part of pregnancy. You just have to put up with it. But really it's our body saying we need more support.

  So understanding how your body changes through pregnancy and then childbirth is the next event. Childbirth. Dramatically changes your body. Again, your hormones crash. , Your body goes [00:05:00] into fight or flight for an extended period of time. Research tells us that it's at least four weeks after childbirth that you are still in fight or flight because your body was so overwhelmed by everything that happened with childbirth.

  And that in and of itself also. Change is the basic functioning of our body. When your body's in fight or flight, all of the blood is diverted to keeping your heart pumping, keeping your eyes dilated, and like kind of keeping you on edge so that you are ready to run metaphorically whenever you need to.

  Michelle: Yeah.

  Brooke: Because of that, our digestion slows down. We're not absorbing nutrients anymore. , Our liver is releasing glucose to keep up with the elevated cortisol. Like there's all of these changes that happen just from that event. And then on top of that we have the recovery period. Called postpartum, which is not just six weeks.

  In case you didn't know that, it's not just six [00:06:00] weeks. Um, your body literally has to rebuild it. Spent 10 months building a baby, and now it has to spend even more time rebuilding yourself. And so all of these phases put together if we're not supported. As best as possible, we can sometimes see secondary infertility because our body essentially went through the ringer and then really get to go back to where it needs to be to feel good.

  And so it's like, you know what? I'm kind of tapped out right now. I don't really have the capacity to try and do that whole baby thing again. 'cause that was a lot and I didn't really get the help that I needed. So we're gonna put a pause on that and I wanna really emphasize the pause part because. I know a lot of moms really get in their head of, oh my gosh, well now it's never gonna happen again.

  And I haven't personally been through that, but I can only imagine what it feels like to be there. And I can imagine that sometimes it really is easy to think that [00:07:00] you're just done. But I wanna emphasize that your body is saying, I need to put a pause. And if we can sit with that and say, okay, my body's on pause right now.

  How can I help my body? Get ready to go again. What does my body need from me to unpause and to be ready to get pregnant again? That feels empowering because that means that there are things that we can do and there are things that we can explore and we can be curious and say, okay, what, what, what does my body need right now?

  And really trying to understand biologically where we're coming from that's gonna make a huge difference in your approach.

  Michelle: A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean it, it's very similar to how we look at it and Chinese medicine is really understanding that the body is asking for something. Typically symptoms are that, and symptoms are an amazing, amazing thing that we have. We sometimes look at it as like a really, , difficult thing or a nuisance, [00:08:00] but symptoms are actually, you're one of the most amazing aspects of your body where they're just asking you or telling you, Hey, this is a message.

  , I need something that I'm not getting. So I, I find that really, you know, empowering because you know that. Once you do find it, your body's going to respond in a positive way. So what are some of the things that you find are absolutely vital? , After, postpartum,

  Brooke: Well, the first thing is making sure that you are actually helping your body heal. A lot of us have been led to believe that healing just takes. Place within those first six weeks, and then we're in the all clear, we're good to go, and we just kind of hope for the best after that. And if you're finding that you still don't feel good at 6, 9, 12, maybe even 18 months postpartum, whatever that timeframe is, it's never too late to heal.

  [00:09:00] So if you don't feel like you got the care and. The nutrients and the attention that you needed in that initial healing phase, it's never too late to heal. You can start that process again and help nourish your body back to health. So the first thing I would say is making sure that we are really being consistent with the foundational needs of our nutrition.

  So are you eating three meals a day? You'd be shocked at how many moms are not doing that because so easy to just be like, oh, well I'll just grab my coffee and I'll hurry quick, make my kids breakfast, and then we have to run out the door, or we have to go play with toys or whatever. And then all you've had is coffee and then lunchtime comes around and you're like, man, I'm so tired.

  And it's almost my kid's nap time, and I'm just gonna quick. You know, grab the pickings off of their plate that they didn't finish, [00:10:00] and then I'll just kind of grab something later, and then you're like, oh my gosh, now I have to clean the house. So now it's two o'clock in the afternoon, you haven't had a real meal yet, and it kind of perpetuates.

  And then you're like, why am I so tired? Why am I so hungry? So to bring it all back, make sure you're eating at least three meals a day, that's the bare minimum. And then when you do sit down for a meal. Are you calm? Are you rested? Are you helping your body get to that regulated state where it's prepared to do something with the food that you're about to give it?

  That makes a huge difference in your digestion. Next thing I would say is bal, yes, balancing your plate. , It's really easy to fill up on the fun foods. Those are usually carb heavy, and I'm not saying you can't have those, but making sure that you are also prioritizing your protein and your healthy fats.

  Our eggs need a lot of micronutrients to. [00:11:00] Have a better quality and also better motility, and all of those things and micronutrients come from. Animal meats and animal products, and a lot of the fruits and vegetables that we have, as well as the dietary fat. So making sure that there's a big variety of nutrients on your plate to tell your body, Hey, we've got everything that we need to take care of ourselves and prepare for when we're ready to conceive again.

  So I would say those are like the biggest foundational things. Um, and we can kind of build on that from there, once you've got those things consistent.

  Michelle: And what are typically like foods that people should be focused on that can help them, you know, rebuild that nutrient density.

  Brooke: , Definitely animal products. I know not every mama feels comfortable, with like red meat or fish or things like that for whatever reasons. But if, if you can,, let's say, you know, [00:12:00] you are vegetarian or vegan, . By choice rather than like, for religious reasons. , I would say maybe start experimenting with some animal products, , because those are so, so, so rich in all of our B vitamins, zinc, iron, .

  Vitamin A. Just really everything our body needs, making sure we're getting those animal products in. , And if it's like a texture thing for you, then let's find some creative ways to get those in. So maybe you don't like ground meat, like ground beef or tacos, but maybe you like little steak strips. Or maybe you can do like breaded fish instead of just.

  You know, like a regular fish filet or something like that. So finding a way to enjoy that food in a way that you can eat it consistently. , I would also say if you're not doing full fat dairy switch to full fat dairy, a lot of us grew up.

  Michelle: Yes.

  Brooke: In [00:13:00] the nutritional era where everyone's like, we need to eat low fat so that we can be skinny and you know, we have to have the low fat dressings and the low fat milk and all of this stuff.

  Our hormones are built on dietary fat. Our brain is built on dietary fat, and our brain controls our menstrual cycle, and if we do not have those essential nutrients from those dietary fats, then the whole thing is just not working. So reminding yourself that you're not gonna get fat from eating whole milk Greek yogurt. Right. , And kind of making that mental shift of I need dietary fats. This is what is gonna support my body right now. , And then really eating just a really colorful plate. So shoot for 10 plant points a day. When I say plant points, that's like fruits or veggies. So think berries, avocados.

  Your root vegetables, your [00:14:00] legumes, like beans, lentils, chickpeas. Just really trying to get a variety of plants every single day is really gonna build your diversity or your nutrient portfolio so that your body has lots of stuff to choose from when it's trying to support your cycle and your ability to conceive.

  Michelle: Also great for your microbiome, so increasing that diversity. And it's interesting that you were talking about full fats 'cause there's a lot of things that you were saying is, is all just also for fertility. Even if you haven't conceived, it's beneficial. So, , full fat milk, whole milk has been shown in studies to support fertility, whereas skim milk or percentage milk has been shown to have adverse effects on hormones and, , so many things, some reproductive health.

  So you really need to have Whole Foods. When they say Whole Foods like food that is how it [00:15:00] was in the, in the first place, like it's natural nature.

  Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. And. Going along with that, just reminding yourself that you don't necessarily need to say, okay, well, if I'm in the trying to conceive phase, then I need to eat these foods, and then once I'm pregnant, I need to be eating these foods. And then once I'm postpartum, really it's sticking with these habits consistently the whole time.

  Like your body needs full fat dairy in every stage. It might be for different reasons for trying to conceive pregnancy postpartum. Your body still needs full fat dairy all the time. So sometimes it's really helpful to be like, oh, like eggs are great for pregnancy because of their choline and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

  And we kind of fall into that trap of, okay, what foods are really important right now, while I'm trying to conceive, the answer's gonna be the same then what it was yesterday if you weren't trying to conceive, we need our [00:16:00] protein, our dietary fats. Our minerals, our complex carbs, to give us fiber. Like let's try not to overcomplicate it, right?

  Let's try and to say, I'm gonna focus on a well-rounded diet that's whole foods based, that has a variety of plants and a variety of animal proteins, and I'm just gonna be consistent with that so that my body says, wow, I'm consistently getting what I need. I'm good to go. Let's unpause and let's try again for another baby.

  Michelle: And one of the questions that I often get, so the majority of my patients and my online clients are fertility related. However, they. Many times eventually get pregnant. And one of the first things that people come to me about is, what do I eat now that I'm pregnant? Like how do I shift things? And so I wanted to actually talk about that as well because I know a lot of people listening to this either are almost there or about to even prepare for a transfer, and they wanna know [00:17:00] like, what's the next step should that happen?

  So what are your thoughts on that and what are your recommendations?

  Brooke: I would say if you're going to change anything, I would just increase your mineral intake. So minerals are the spark plugs of our body, especially the electrolytes. , And they're responsible for our cellular function. So. If we're talking like vitamins versus minerals, vitamins, how I describe it in very, very layman's terms is that vitamins, , support our organs and like the bigger part of our body, well, you know, they can still help everywhere, but if we're trying to break it down, vitamins are more for the major parts for our body, like our organs and like our body as a whole.

  And the minerals are where we really see. The benefits on a cellular level that can then support the rest of our body. , We know that our eggs have more. [00:18:00] Mitochondria and more energy needs than other cells in our body. And so if we can support our health at a cellular level, it's really going to help us as we're going through these transfers or as we're trying to, , you know, support our menstrual cycle and ovulation and, , all of the other hormones that play into that symphony.

  So if you're not already eating mineral rich foods. Start doing that. Think avocados, bananas, dairy, , organ meats, nuts are really, really rich in minerals like, , copper and. Things that support our, our hormones. , And then start adding in maybe some high quality electrolyte supplements to really make sure that you have enough of those electrolytes.

  , My two brands that I have on rotation all the time are Redmond, relight, and just ingredients. I love the relight because it's higher in sodium and I love just ingredients [00:19:00] because of the potassium to sodium ratio. .

  Michelle: Mm-hmm.

  Brooke: They both have great flavors. So I would say the only thing to really, I guess, change would be to just increase your mineral intake, because the more minerals you have, the more supported your mitochondria are, and then if your mitochondria are supported, then every cell in your body is gonna have energy to do what it needs to do.

  Michelle: Yeah, for sure. Definitely. , Minerals, I, I've seen so many people with, like, symptoms of magnesium deficiency and magnesium. I, I'm like, so like you really need to be on top of that. It's, , so important. Nuts too. Nuts are incredibly important because Chinese medicine sees them as rich and jing, you know, they're basically the plant, , version of our eggs and sperm.

  'cause they have everything that they need in order to reproduce and to kind of flourish into a sprout, which is really what pregnancy is. It's like a sprouting of the [00:20:00] body. So as far as nuts go, , do you have any suggestions? I know some people say to have them soaked and to have them raw. , When you do soak them, they do kind of like, it starts this sprouting process.

  So I wanted to get your take on that.

  Brooke: You know, I love the the sprouting idea. I think that's awesome. And there has been some research that shows that that's probably the preferred way to eat some of your nuts and seeds for me. I already feel stretched for time as is, and so I would say if you're trying to choose between doing it the right way and doing it at all, I would just focus on doing it.

  And then you can get consistent and find time. To try the sprouting or the organic or whatever, then that's awesome, but let's make sure we're doing it first. , As for the type of nuts, Brazil nuts are super great for our thyroid. , They're really high in selenium. You only need two maximum a day get your, your [00:21:00] daily needs for selenium.

  , And then

  Michelle: and no more that actually. 'cause you can go overboard.

  Brooke: Yeah, so like one or two max. , And then I also love pumpkin seeds and pistachios, pumpkin seeds, especially because, , they're rich in tryptophan, which is the building block for melatonin. And you're sleeping better, you are detoxing and restoring better, which means your body is more capable of.

  Being able to support, , fertility and pregnancy. So I love pumpkin seeds. And then I also love pistachios because they're really rich in copper. And copper supports our digestion of protein. So you could be eating a lot of protein and then not actually getting all the benefits of it because you don't have enough copper in your system.

  So copper is another great one. And we get those from pistachios.

  Michelle: Yeah, it's interesting. It's, , kind of similar to vitamin [00:22:00] D with magnesium is that, , we can have lots of vitamin D but we don't process it. We need magnesium. So it just kind of shows how everything's such a symphony and that's why it's so important to eat diverse foods and really look at everything.

  . So it, it's important that diversity of food in eating the rainbow, really looking at everything. , And I know that you like, , bone broth as well. We talked about that on your podcast.

  Brooke: Yes, I do love bone broth. It's, it's really a triple win. You get the protein and you get the electrolytes, and you get the amino acids, , and it's just incredible. So instead of cooking your rice. Or your noodles in water, cook them in bone broth, and that's a super easy way get it in. If you don't like drinking it, that's fine.

  Let's find other ways to sneak it in and just make that a part of your daily routine.

  Michelle: Yeah, no, that's actually really a, a good thing that I've, it was kind of a hack that I started doing and to be honest, it gives your rice so much more flavor. [00:23:00] And I personally like Baati rice. It's just, uh, it's great and it also is like one of the better rice to have. And do you have any suggestions or like any brands that you like for bone broth?

  Brooke: , Kettle and Fire, in my opinion, is the standard. I know that it's pretty pricey though, and I say it's the standard and I don't even have it very often, , because I go through so much bone broth, so I would just focus on finding an organic bone broth. , I get one from Walmart. I think the brand is.

  Pacific or Pacifica or something along those lines. It's a green carton, , and it's just organic bone broth on it. So that's a super great option. And then,

  Michelle: fed? If it's beef. do you usually do beef and chicken or one or the other

  Brooke: , It depends on the recipe. So most of the time it's chicken just because it's a little bit more subtle. , So it doesn't have a [00:24:00] strong of a flavor and you can kind of mix it with whatever, but if I'm doing like a beef stew or something that's like primarily made with beef and I need some sort of broth, then I'll do beef bone broth.

  , I also love the powdered bone broth from just ingredients. You can buy the basil one or the lemon herb one, and so you can just do a scoop and add it to water or add it to your soup or. Whatever you're using. , And it actually makes it really palatable to drink as well. So that's one of my favorite things for postpartum is I'll warm up my water in the microwave and then I'll add a scoop of the lemon herb bone broth and it actually like, tastes good.

  So now I'm actually drinking the bone broth.

  Michelle: Yeah. And also pregnancy or even, , fertility. So it's amazing 'cause a lot of these things are beneficial for everybody.

  Brooke: Yeah. Anytime.

  Michelle: Awesome. So that sounds great. So if people are interested in [00:25:00] learning more or, , do get to that place where they're conceiving and they wanna learn more about, . You know, pregnancy, nutrition, and information on postpartum possibly.

  Or if they have, you know, , gone through pregnancy and are trying again, how can they reach you and find out more about what you offer?

  Brooke: You can find me on Instagram at the well nourished mama underscore. , I also have a podcast, the Well Nourished Mama Podcast, and my website is the same. Well nourished mama.com. . And then if you're looking for very specific support to healing your body and really building those foundations, I recommend my.

  Cookbook called The New Mama. It's marketed as a postpartum recovery cookbook, but it's primarily a healing protocol. , It's anti-inflammatory in nature, and it's really rich in minerals and amino acids. So if you're still feeling a little bit [00:26:00] off or you just really wanna lay that groundwork to support your body through this next phase of trying to conceive, then you can start at the very beginning of My New Mama cookbook and watch your body flourish as you go throughout the cookbook.

  It's kind of an a meal plan format, , and it'll really kind of help reset your body and get you to a place where you're feeling a lot better.

  Michelle: And listen, this works. For people who have never conceived. I, I just really wanna stress that. 'cause we have like such, , we kind of like labeled different parts as separate, but it's, it's all the same. Like you're really nourishing your body and that nourishing will help with conception regardless if it, it's the first time or the second time or the third time.

  So yeah, I'd like to stress that.

  Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, like I said, it's marketed as a postpartum recovery cookbook, but my mother-in-law uses it and she's in her fifties. , My husband loves all the [00:27:00] recipes and I use it all the time to just support my body at a foundational level.

  Michelle: Perfect. , So Brooke, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. I'm really happy because I feel like, , it is really, , giving answers to a community that is often, I always say it's kind of like the, the middle child, you know, the secondary and fertility , it's not given as much attention as like.

  Primary infertility, and a lot of people actually going through that are going through that after having a kid and realizing maybe their body's more depleted. So I think this is such an important topic and conversation. So thank you so much for coming on today, Brooke. Right.

  Brooke: welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm wishing you the best .