Ep 360 BBT Burnout? A Simpler Way to Know If You Actually Ovulated
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m joined by Rose McKenzie, fertility awareness educator and clinician trainer at Mira, to explore a simpler, smarter way to track your cycle, without the stress of daily temperature checks.
We dive into how continuous hormone monitoring can reveal what’s really happening in your body each month, why a single lab test can miss crucial shifts in your hormones, and how lifestyle factors like sleep, stress, and nutrition affect ovulation. Rose breaks down the science behind Mira’s lab-grade hormone tracking technology and shares how it’s helping women and practitioners move beyond guesswork to truly understand their cycles.
If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by charting, or you’re ready to move past “BBT burnout,” this conversation will help you see your hormones in a whole new way.
Key Takeaways:
Tired of charting every morning? Discover a stress-free way to confirm ovulation.
Learn why LH strips only tell part of the story, and what you’re really missing.
See how Mira’s lab-grade tech brings clarity to hormone tracking from home.
Find out how stress, sleep, and nutrition can delay or disrupt ovulation.
Learn why continuous data gives a clearer picture than one-time lab tests.
Understand how your insulin sensitivity shifts across your cycle (and how that affects cravings).
Get empowered to interpret your hormone data and take control of your fertility journey.
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
Learn more about Mira and follow their socials:
https://www.miracare.com/
https://www.instagram.com/mirafertility/
https://www.facebook.com/mirafertility/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS5Z-P55EpyB-eAnwZsvOdg
https://www.tiktok.com/@mirafertility
Study link that we spoke about:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10421863/
Get 20% off of any MIRA products by using this link: https://shop.miracare.com/discount/WHOLESOMEFERTILITY20?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fhealthcare-experts-choice
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
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# TWF: 360 -Rose
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Speaker: Welcome back to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today we're digging into the why behind our hormones, how stress, sleep, food, and timing shift ovulation, and why a single lab snapshot can miss the full picture. This episode is sponsored by Mira, a company focused on at-home hormone monitoring, because a topic is cycle data that you can actually use.
My guest is fertility awareness educator and clinician trainer, Rose McKenzie. Today we're gonna unpack what LH Strips do and don't tell you how continuous data changes, care plans, and emerging research on insulin sensitivity across the cycle. Plus practical ways to pair numbers with body signals. If you're actively trying to conceive and want to know how to [00:01:00] really optimize your cycle, you won't wanna miss this episode.
Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, rose. Yes. Thank you for having me. So excited to have you on. I always like to start with a little introduction. I'd love if you can introduce yourself and then talk about how you got started in working with Mira. Yes,
Rose: well, thank you. I have to say I never thought I'd have my dream job, but here I am with my dream job.
So I'll tell you how I got here. My background is as a fertility awareness educator. So I'm trained in two methods, simple thermal and Marquette. So I was helping women to understand what their hormones were doing what it meant so they could make decisions about their fertility. At the same time I was actually working in an er, so completely two [00:02:00] different worlds.
And my passion, my husband works in er ah, yes. So we could share stories, but yeah, so I was really seeing how many things could be prevented if we did more prevention care, and we really helped patients understand what was happening to their bodies much, you know, earlier than when they ended up in an ear.
And so I wanted to do more preventative care and really help empowering women to understand what their hormones were doing. And so, I pivoted and I started working at a restorative reproductive health office, which with providers who truly were looking for root causes and fixing the problems that were then leading to what we typically hear women say of long, irregular cycles, painful periods, difficulty conceiving.
You know, weight gain, all of these kind of top of the iceberg problems that they're having that were not being addressed at the root. And so that's what we were doing in that practice. So, I love the work I was doing there, but the opportunity came up with Mira, where now I get to train providers similar to the ones I used to work with.
And the more providers I assist, the more patients are getting [00:03:00] that really good care to again, find those root causes.
Michelle: Yeah, it's incredibly empowering and I will say, like I have my own background, my own story of having like 12 years of irregular cycles and not really getting the answer through Western medicine.
Which my husband is a doctor at the er, which the ER is probably like the best. Like of Western medicine, because anything that's trauma related, they're amazing. That's where they really shine. But anything that's a little more preventative, I just feel like it's better to do alternative medicine or other more natural ways to really look at the root.
Cause and for years I went through it myself. Mm-hmm. And I had no idea what was going on. I didn't even know anything about tracking or anything. and then found a solution and, and really, I mean, to think for 12 years I went through this and thought that was gonna be my life sentence. And I think that.
In that aspect, I feel [00:04:00] very passionate about empowering people.
Rose: Yes.
Michelle: To really getting that awareness of their body and of course, well you did the two other types of awareness method, right? What were the two you were, were mentioning? So,
Rose: simple thermal is a mucus temperature based method. And then Marquette mm-hmm.
Is urinary hormones. Temperature is optional and you can track mucus as well. And so it was really the Marquette method with being able to track women's hormones in urine. That really led me to mirror, 'cause I had some patients that were in very difficult situations, but they needed to have a very.
Precise, understanding what their hormones were doing because you know, some of the patients I had were postpartum, but they weren't just postpartum. They had just had a micro preemie. So their babies, you know, 27 weeks gestation born and now they're postpartum, pumping, trying to navigate the nicu but also need to know if their fertility was returning.
So situations that are difficult like that, or patients that are avoiding a pregnancy [00:05:00] because maybe they have medications that they take that cause birth defects. And in those situations they don't want to use a hormonal birth control. They want to use a natural form of avoiding a pregnancy, which is what the methods of simple thermal and Marquette can offer.
So the majority of my patients initially were actually trying to avoid a pregnancy. And now of course in my work at Miro where I'm helping providers, I see all the different various situations, you know, you can say is it's wide ranged. We have people using the product for trying to conceive, which is a very natural you know, logical.
Way that our monitor is used, but then all the way to women using it as they transition off of chemotherapy and transition back to having their hormones come back. So very wide range of things that hormone tracking is important for.
Michelle: Absolutely. And typically as a provider, what I found were a lot of people coming to me with like maybe a hormonal panel that they took maybe three months ago, six months ago, or even that month, but we [00:06:00] still only have the snapshot in time.
Mm-hmm. And what I love about Mira is that you get to see this every single month and track it and also see what it is that's happening in the body. If you're making, if, if the changes that you're making, because people hear about supplements, they hear about all these different things, but then they're like, okay, is it doing anything?
Is it really making a difference? Sure. When you're able to actually track it from month to month to month, that's when you really feel empowered about what you're doing and. The simplicity of it, I can go on, but I'd love for you to really share what Mirror is, what the unique technology that they use.
Typically I have people who have been following me for a while know that I'm not, like, I haven't just easily sponsored anything. And for me to actually get to the place where I'm like sponsoring it has to be some, I always knew it had to be something that I a hundred percent stand behind. Sure. And so I, as a practitioner and as [00:07:00] somebody who's working with patients.
Really, really, really feel that what Mira can offer is incredibly valuable when it comes to fertility health. So yeah, I would love for you to share, 'cause I know they have a unique technology mm-hmm. In the way they work that's unique compared to other tracking methods mm-hmm. That are Yeah. Other
Rose: solutions.
Yeah. So, for those that are not familiar with Mira, it's an at-home hormone monitoring device. So you need a device and wands, then you're gonna start collecting first morning urine sample. We use first morning for two main reasons. Those that like to know why most patients are not eating and drinking throughout the night.
So you're just having a naturally concentrated sample and it's much easier to obtain something that's becomes part of your habit. So every morning you just, you have to go to the bathroom anyway. You just collect that you're in. Yeah. And then you're gonna be testing that. So, you dip a dipstick in that urine, you cap it, you put it in the machine.
Now while it's reading. I'll tell you about the technology. So the type [00:08:00] of technology that we use is immunofluorescent. So it's a lateral flow amino assay, which you don't need to memorize that. What you need to know is that means that as you dip that urine and the urine is wicking up the wand, it's actually picking up antibodies.
And then the detector is a fluorescent detector. 'cause now the, the hormone particles are labeled with fluorescent and now the device is actually reading that. So this is. Completely different than anything you can get anywhere else. So, lh test strips, pregnancy tests. Think about your other solutions that you might see.
Those are all using nano gold technology, which is a validated tool as well. But most of us can recognize what Nano gold is because you see that line darkens like a pregnancy test becomes positive, or an LH test strip. You see that line darkens. So as the line darkens, that means there's more and more hormone.
So in nano gold is either darkening or fading of a line. And then either it's a standalone device that has a camera in it that's reading that dark or lightness or [00:09:00] some solutions actually use your smartphone to again, kind of determine how light or dark that line is. And so Muir is the only one that has implored this higher technology that's in an at-home setting, which gives us laboratory grade results.
And so, you know, if you said, I've tried something in the past and it didn't work well for me, like let's say LH test strips, which I know you and I have talked about this before. LH test strips are tracking one hormone. And right. We want to find that one. What's supposed to happen is one dynamic change in lh, where it's, you're generally low the entire cycle, and you have this one dynamic spike.
That's what's supposed to happen. That spike is supposed to occur over one, two, maybe three days. So it depends on how tight your surge is. If you don't have that common pattern, LH s rates can be very frustrating 'cause you can see what looks like a positive, but then it's negative and then it's positive.
Or you can have values that look kind of positive all the time. [00:10:00] And so that's telling you something? Yes. That something's wrong. But when you see the number values on mirror, you can really identify, okay, yes, my LH is abnormally high most of the time, but I still get a change that's coordinated with the other hormones, triggering ovulation.
So that would be something like still rising estrogen. Then the LH surge, your progesterone changes. So that will is much more than a simple LH test strip.
Michelle: A hundred percent. So if people are listening to this and they're kind of new to the fertility journey or they're just not as familiar, the first thing that typically people will do is exactly what you said, rose.
They go to CVS or you know, their local pharmacy and will pick up LH six or ovulation predicting kits.
Rose: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: And what that does is it only looks at that one hormone and just for people who are maybe not familiar with this, is that. While it could be very valuable, it only shows us [00:11:00] really one part of how the body tries to ovulate.
What it shows basically is, is a hormone that's secreted through the pituitary. Mm-hmm. And it is, it goes into your bloodstream and, and then it's picked up by the LH stick during the time that it's supposed to signal your ovaries to ovulate, however. Sometimes it, it can work perfectly, do whatever it's gotta do, but that doesn't mean that your ovaries responded.
Mm-hmm. We don't know for sure that you actually ovulated. So it, it could be very misleading.
Rose: Yes.
Michelle: And then again, like you said, sometimes you will see things are a little off maybe have certain like hormonal imbalances that are causing it to constantly spike and and try over and over again. So you, you just don't.
See, it's like trying to look into a room, but the door is a little crack and you can see like maybe a quarter of the room. And then when you get all the different hormones all [00:12:00] together throughout like the major part of the cycle 'cause you don't have to use it Sure. The whole cycle to get a really nice picture.
But then you can get a real nice picture of a symphony and how everything works together, all the different hormones plus the progesterone in the luteal phase, which is the phase that's after following your ovulation. And if that means either it's strong even if it's a little bit and it's not strong, that's something to obviously pay attention to.
And to know that you actually ovulated. 'cause that's one of the ways that we can see for sure. So in that aspect, I mean that part of it, to be able to see that full picture, which typically people will get when they get the. Full hormone panel at the doctor's office once in a while, yes. But to get that month after month and after month, that's gonna be extremely valuable, but also not as stressful as BBT charting.
'cause all you have to do is, is pee and you don't necessarily have to look [00:13:00] at the, your app, you can actually just connect it and not look at it if, if you are the kind of person that gets stressed out by the data. 'cause a lot of people do. And then of course. Me or any practitioner you're working with, somebody who's working with you, has the ability, Amira put this so seamlessly to be able to, to see and track what's happening.
So if you're the kind of person, which I know a lot of people are, that gets stressed out by the whole like checking every single day. You don't necessarily have to do that. You just pee on the stick and go about your day and just let it kind of like track you.
Rose: Yeah, we actually have I know some clients that they collect the urine, they even may dip the dipstick, but they don't do anything else in the process.
Their partner can do that. They can open the app, they can sync it. You don't even have to be involved in the dipping process if you don't want, you just have to collect the urine. Collect the urine, yeah. And your partner can dip that test strip, you know, cap it, put it in the [00:14:00] machine. Again, if it's, if it's not something that is we'll say fits in your current life situation, you can still collect the data and not have to stress about what the, what It actually shows that again on the mirror dashboard, which is what clinicians see, they see the same data is what's available in the app.
So the app. Is there for you if you want it, but if you don't want it to see it, you don't have to either. You just have to make sure they sync together. That's what makes the results available to the clinician.
Michelle: Yeah. And you choose the clinician, of course. Mm-hmm. Anybody you're working with, you give the permission.
You're the one that actually mm-hmm. Allows them in. So whether it's a naturopath, a dietician, acupuncturist, doctor, maybe do some doctors do that as well?
Rose: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Michelle: Yeah, so they're basically able to go in and check your results and, and check out your, you know, your cycle path and, and how all the different hormones rise and [00:15:00] fall.
And so it really, it gives you a lot of. Great information.
Rose: Yeah. I would say, you know, a, a provider said it this way. She said, I'm gonna be in the bathroom right with you. And you really, I mean, you can, as a clinician, if the, again, the patient, the user has to consent to sharing the data. They can revoke access at any point.
The user is always in control of their information. But if you want your entire team to have access to your data, then you consent to each of them. You can have your ob, you can have your dietician, your acupuncturist. Mm-hmm. Your, there's even, we have psychiatry providers who have access to the data as well.
So you can have an entire team surrounding you that all can see your data if it's helpful within your treatment plan with them.
Michelle: Yeah, that's what I, that's one of the things that I absolutely love because when I first started and I had a lot of patients coming in, whether they're showing me their BBT and just, they're constantly just showing me their phones every time they come in, and now I don't have, they [00:16:00] don't have to do that, which is also.
Yeah, I know exactly what's going on. Now when they come
Rose: in instead, you can open up your dashboard on your computer, turn it their way and say, look, this is, you know, this is so much better than what it was last cycle. And you can do that analysis together, which I think, you know, it's so empowering for users to understand their data.
But when you can have that collaborative approach between a clinician and yourself you know, that that is really where we can start moving mountains.
Michelle: Oh, for sure. Now for people who don't necessarily have a practitioner or anybody else kind of helping them and they're just trying to figure it out themselves.
Mm-hmm. How does one get started?
Rose: Yeah, so Mira is a direct to consumer product, so you can just go on meira care.com, look at the different options, the devices, this. So no matter what situation you're in, if you're actively trying to conceive your perimenopausal, the device is the same. You just choose what hormones you want to track.
And hopefully we're gonna put it in your show notes, your discount code that you can share with [00:17:00] everybody for that 20% off. So 20% off?
Yeah.
Yep. You just put it in at checkout. And and then it gets shipped to you. And then if a clinician, or if you don't have a clinician yet Mira just actually started a provider directory of all the clinicians that do have understanding of Miata, so that if you're like, you know, I, I have Michelle, she's wonderful, but now I need to find an ob, GYN, you can now search on the directory for an OB GYN that under knows and understands mirror data.
Michelle: That's awesome. Amazing. So good. And so for people who don't really know how to read it. What are some of the resources you, you guys provide to make it where they really understand like what's happening? Because they could just look and it looks like a bunch of lines. Like what does this mean?
Rose: Yeah. Well, so where we came from, our foundation of why we created this technology really was for women not to be, basically left outta the conversation. We wanted them to see their data, know what their data is [00:18:00] saying, instead of the disconnect between you go and get your blood drawn, you wait a couple of days, your doctor reads it and tells you it's fine. So we wanna put the patient, the user right back in the middle of that for them to see and understand their data.
So we understand that many women don't understand what their hormones are supposed to be doing or what they generally do. But that's the, within the app, we give several things. So we give, low normal, high reading for the hormones. We show you what your data looks like compared to a group of users.
You can see, for example, progesterone is supposed to be a bell curve After ovulation, you can click the analyze button and see your data plotted out against other users as well. And of course, if. You don't understand the data. That's where a clinician is great because they can take you from having basic understanding of the data to then saying like, this is showing me that maybe you are not building a uterine lining as well as you could be 'cause your estrogen is low.
Or this tells me that there's a potential problem with follicular development and [00:19:00] building your lining 'cause of estrogen. And then they could help you to improve those things. So that's really where tracking is one thing, but then taking that information and making actionable changes is where again, really we make the biggest impact in women's lives.
Because, you know, let's say you find out that your hormones are too low. That can be very devastating, but that's not the end of the story. Hormones are dynamic and they change, and as you change your lifestyle, diet supplements you start doing treatments, you can actually watch those hormones improve and change over time.
Michelle: I can attest to that a hundred percent. And, and it, it feels it could be very alarming when somebody's seeing that things are really thrown off. It could feel like it's a life sentence, but it's not. I've seen them change. And it, you know, certain lifestyle changes, certain supplements can really make a difference.
I mean, it's amazing to actually watch. Now that being said, it's not gonna be an overnight thing or over one month. [00:20:00] It's one of those things that it does take, you know, we're bound, I always say we're bound by the cycles. We're limited by that, like every single cycle. So you have to wait a couple of cycles for things to really reflect.
But again, this is amazing to be able to actually monitor as a practitioner. So this is gonna make your practitioner's life much easier because to be able to actually see it and monitor it in real time makes a difference. Not only that, as a practitioner, you can, you have like certain tools on how you diagnose, but then having another layer element.
That you're tracking also makes a difference on how, like, for me at least, how I'm going to prescribe certain supplements or possibly herbs. Mm-hmm. Based on what I'm seeing. And then it confirms even more. It just gives you more data to really assess the person.
Rose: Yes. Yes. And I would say too, it, it helps you [00:21:00] to be motivated because when you see, you know, some of these things that we ask as a clinician, easier for us to say than do, right?
We say, get enough sleep. Mm-hmm. And take these supplements true. Easier for us to say them, for you to do them right. But when you see that these. Very specific actions you're taking are changing how your hormones are coordinated, how within normal range they are. It really is motivating to see that like your hard work is paying off and you deserve to see that.
So we have many. Examples, I know Michelle has them as well, of like that transformation of your data improving and changing. It's not just, like you said earlier, it's not a you know, your sentence like you're just, these are the hormones you're given. You have to deal with them. That's not true. Your hormones yes, some of them are genetic.
We can't ignore some of that. But many things are affected by your diet, your lifestyle, [00:22:00] the way you're nourishing your body. And we can start, I've heard providers describe it as like pulling levers. When you start pulling some levers, you all, you see that downward downstream effect of what it does to your hormones.
Just like if you start manipulating, if your thyroid is off, that affects your hormones. If your mm-hmm your adrenals are off, all of those things they're interconnected. And as we start improving all of those things, your hormones are going to respond and, and be more optional.
Michelle: And I will say also probably like many doctors are obese, they can probably see certain patterns occur with certain conditions like thyroid disorders or you know, other types of hormonal imbalances and other practitioners can um, recognize that as well.
So that aspect of it is really impactful as far as the diagnosis aspect.
Rose: Yeah. And I think, you know. To summarize here, don't be discouraged by maybe poor or suboptimal values. You know, you can think of it [00:23:00] the same way as maybe you get a, a blood test back and they say it's out of range, like a cholesterol or I dunno, a blood pressure reading that's high.
Think of that as like, a sign to you that there is work to be done, but it's not just like you're stuck with that the rest of your life. You can improve these things. It's not, you know, a. Oh no, I, you know, will have difficulty conceiving the rest of my life. That's not true. You may have some things that you have to change to overcome that current situation.
Um mm-hmm. But this is not like hopeless situations when you have abnormal hormone patterns. To me, actually, I see it as a great opportunity that maybe previously you didn't know this was part of the, you know, problem. So think of this is like a puzzle that you're putting together, and I know you and I have talked about this before.
You're taking something that before was kind of abstract. Like we knew we had hormones, we knew that they do things, they're important to us, but we never really got to see them. Now you're gonna actually be able to see your hormones, and it is like a symphony. There needs to be harmonious [00:24:00] interactions between the hormones and when there's not, again, I view that as an opportunity, an opportunity to improve them.
And what a great opportunity that you have to be able to, actually take part in improving something for yourself. Like again, putting the ownership back on the person. Like, this is you, your hormones are you, and if they're not ideal, that's okay. We can work on that and improve them.
Michelle: I love that. That's such an empowering message and the way we see it a lot of times Chinese medicine like symptoms.
We of course treat the root cause, but all of those things are actual hints from the bodies. Mm-hmm. I mean, your body's incredible way to communicate with you. Yes. And it gives you alarms and, and those alarms are actually like blessings in disguise because. They are in fact an opportunity for you and a message for you to shift a couple of things.
It's mm-hmm. Really your body's trying to give you those messages. Hey, a couple of tweaks need to be done. [00:25:00] But the body's amazing in the way that it really responds to those tweaks. Mm-hmm. And those little sh shifts and changes. And it does make a difference. Like, your body wants to find balance. It does.
Yes. It naturally is designed to do that.
Rose: Yeah, no, all you have to do, I tell people it's not as complex as you think. Oftentimes we just need to support the processes that are already in place. And you know, there's many things that we don't know are disruptive, but as soon as we learn that they're disruptive, and some people are very sensitive to certain types of disruptors and other people, and so sometimes I think people think, you know, it's unfair.
That's such a good point. This person, you know, it doesn't affect them when they have. Like really big work deadlines that doesn't mess up their hormones and delay their cycle. But why does it do it for me? Well, everyone has different thresholds for different things, and that's part of your beauty as an, you know, a human being with your own complex interactions with things.
And so. Instead of seeing them as a curse again, see them as an opportunity. You [00:26:00] start listening to your body, you listen to its cues, and you start working within what your body needs. And again, the body's amazing that it, it wants to be, well, it wants to have, yeah. Health, it's always
Michelle: seeking that. Yeah.
Rose: Always seeking that. And so sometimes we're our, our own worst enemy 'cause we are in the way. And so sometimes a hundred percent we have to break some of our sometimes bad habits to really support our body in a different way. And, so I'm very encouraged by actually this we'll say change in the tide that we're seeing.
Patients want to know what their heart rate variability is and their sleeping patterns. Yeah. And they wanna understand their hormones. These are all metrics that you can monitor and, and assess but you also can't ignore what your body is telling you as well. Those are two different things that, again, pull together and make that puzzle.
Michelle: And you bring up such a good point. You were talking about how certain people are more sensitive to like the, the all-nighters or the extra projects [00:27:00] that they have to do and the stress levels. Yes. And what's really cool though is by monitoring your hormones, you can actually see what travel does to you.
Mm-hmm. Or if you're more sensitive to certain foods or you know, what really makes it worse, you can actually track that. Which I find so empowering. Yes. And then I just to kind of like put a little silver lining on that. Those people that do tend to get really sensitive to the stressors are the same people that heal a lot faster when they come into my office.
'cause they're just a little more sensitive to their environment. Yeah. So. There's a benefit to that. There is, there's a benefit. It's just you need to know how to work yourself. Mm-hmm. So to your advantage.
Rose: Yes, exactly. And I tell people a way to like think about that quickly is if you are someone who has had cycles that, you know, people often say my period was late around Christmas or when I was in school, when I had final exams.
Your [00:28:00] period wasn't late actually. Your ovulation was late. You likely had delayed or suppressed. That's such chicken ovulation, right? So, and that was, you know, some people don't think about this, but your body only has one mechanism to protect you against pregnancy. That's to not ovulate. And so that's, its only kind of lever to pull when your body is like, this is not a good time to get pregnant.
And that lever, again, can get pulled by some people pretty easily where other people, you know, have to be an actual true drought or war something. Mm-hmm. That would disrupt someone's hormones. But other people, it can be you know, a, a small change. So I'll give an example. I had a patient that she was exercising frequently.
She then changed her job, was able to exercise even more. So now she's exercising like six days a week. That was fine. Her hormones were fine. Then she decided to intermittent fast, which we won't go into that currently, but we'll just say she was so now she's intermittent [00:29:00] fasting, exercising a lot.
She was still fine. Her hormones were she was still having cycles. And then one, we'll say a straw that broke the camel's back was she started to she cut out cheese in her diet. And so for her, that was the last thing that the body couldn't handle, is that lack of fat now to make her hormones.
And so each of those things wasn't. Enough to tip the scale and make her not ovulate, but once it was all three, so she was exercising a lot. She was not eating frequently, so having intermittent fasting and then she cut out fat in her diet and then she stopped ovulating, she stopped having periods.
She's going two months without periods down. And so it's sometimes you have to think about work backwards in. Something can be very abrupt. That happened like all of a sudden stress. But other things can actually be, have been building, I like to say building like a snowball. So things that take a [00:30:00] while.
It's true to build up into a snowball, sometimes take a while to unbuild the snowman too. Yeah, something can be very abrupt and again, you can be very responsive to a good change. Good and bad change, and some things take time to worsen, so they take time to improve as well.
Michelle: That I, I think that that's so important because your body's incredibly forgiving.
And I think that in some ways that forgiving can be very tricky. It's confusing because you think, oh, I can exercise six days and nothing, no problem.
Rose: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: I can intermittent fast, no problem. Like nothing. It's not affecting me. Like I'm fine. Yeah. So I think that it could, it could be a little, um. kind of a hidden, you know, issue that you don't even realize
Rose: Yes.
Michelle: Could be eventually a problem, just because your body is so forgiving until that one last thing and it's like a, it seems like a small thing, but on top of those other things, it can really make such a different shift. [00:31:00]
Rose: Yeah, and you can blame the wrong thing.
You're like, oh, it's because this, when really it was maybe three or four things layered on top of it. So, yeah. I like how you said the body is very forgiving generally is very forgiving. Although I have a interesting story where a woman she donated her kidney to her sister and when she did, it just stopped.
Her periods altogether. Just done.
Michelle: Oh, wow. That's so interesting. You know, you know how we look at the kidneys, right? In Chinese medicine?
Rose: Yeah.
Michelle: It's, uh, the really where the reproductive health begins and end begins. Begins.
Rose: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: Is it the kid? Kidneys?
Rose: Yeah. And so for her, you know, I won't tell the whole story, but she was 46 and I like to tell women your hormones are a lot less forgiving when it's kind of.
Your organ, your ovaries are already starting to fail. And so they're a lot less robust and resilient towards something that happens. And so this woman, who's 46, who then donates her kidney it completely shut down everything for I think three months. She had very low hormones, [00:32:00] no periods, no ovulation, and she was able to recover.
But that event was enough to completely shut down all reproductive hormones.
Michelle: Wow. It's, that's a so crazy interesting story. 'cause you don't think about that. You're like, oh, I have two kidneys. I could just give one. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, to save somebody's life, I think
Rose: it's worth it. It is. Yes.
Yes. But I think that's helpful for women to know that like, you know, surgery can be disruptive, although it can be good. Mm-hmm. And so we have to think about how are we gonna support the body going into surgery? How are we gonna support the body coming outta surgery? This can be for women who, you know, they're having endometriosis surgery to help them conceive.
We have to think about the before and the after. Knowing that the body is in some ways gonna be put under more stress during that surgery, right? Or right after. So there's definitely things that we can do to help support ourselves in these known stressful events [00:33:00] like something like a surgery or, I tell people if you know that Christmas time is very stressful for you every year you can prepare for that.
I mean, some things you can't, you know, you can't say no to everything or you don't wanna say no, it's, you know, but you can set things up to better support yourself. You know, I, I say that for any known stress that's coming up, my couples that are getting ready to get married, I'm like, A wedding is wonderful and beautiful.
It's a good stress, but it is a stress. So you have to be prepared for that. Oh, true.
Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that's so true. And so, um, yes, so if anybody is interested, I have 20% off, which Mira provided me a link so generously and it's, it actually is a nice, actually chunk of change mm-hmm.
For the kit. So it definitely can save a lot, but I highly, highly recommend tracking your cycle with Mira if you really wanna get a more comprehensive look. [00:34:00] And also if you're working with practitioners, I mean, to me as a practitioner, knowing that I see so many different people and like to really, really get that insight, it's invaluable.
So if you guys wanna check it out, you can find it in the episode notes and I have the link in there. And any parting words, rose or any other, other tips or things that Yeah. Golden nuggets. Yeah, golden nuggets. I will say that this love those golden nuggets.
Rose: Yeah. You know, this is just the beginning of the journey.
We know that. More emphasis needs to be put on research in women's health. But I will tell you from my experience, seeing what research is coming, it's so exciting to be a part of this timeframe. We're seeing, you know, looking at women's their glucose data within a cycle. We're looking at studies on how to improve PMS symptoms.
We're seeing how to better manage PCOS or prepare for maybe symptoms you get when [00:35:00] your period happens. We're seeing research around A DHD and how women metabolize medications. And so like all of this is just currently thankfully getting a lot of attention because we know at the core you are your hormones.
Your hormones are you, they are unique to you and they change everything about you. And so it's important for us to acknowledge that yes, we have fluctuating hormones and they matter. And what are we gonna do about those hormones? Well, the first thing is to better understand them. So body literacy.
Yes, bring it back to yourself.
Michelle: You did have an interesting study, actually. Can you talk about that really quick? Yeah. The, about the insulin resistance? Yeah,
Rose: yeah, I can share about that. So the University of Toronto did a study that had 49 participants using Mira a Fitbit and A CGM all at the same time.
So they're tracking consistent glucose measurements and their hormones at the same time. And prior to that study, they really were. The [00:36:00] research was conflicted. Some said there's association between part of the cycle and their glucose levels, and others said there wasn't. And the researchers really said the disadvantage is most of these studies were doing infrequent blood glucose levels.
And they also did not have women tracking their cycles in a strategic way. So they were asking patients, well, how long your cycles? They'd say 30 days. Well, when was your last one? And they'd say when their last period was. So once they had a CGM, so we can really see their glucose data and mirrors, we could really tell if they're ovulating.
When they're ovulating, what phase of the cycle. The conclusion was a very strong correlation between glucose levels and what phase of the cycle they're in. So kind of the conclusion is what we kind of already knew, but now we can say with certainty that women's hormones change how we. Bond to insulin.
So when we have high estrogen, so as we're approaching ovulation, our insulin sensitivity is heightened or improved. It's better we can handle [00:37:00] more let's say handle our glucose better. Not to say eat a bunch of cake, but what I mean is generally women need a little bit less calories and they can keep their blood sugar within target range more often.
And then as soon as we flip to after ovulation, now we have high progesterone levels. High progesterone decreases our insulin sensitivity, so the body is less able to manage our glucose levels as well. And you might be thinking, well, why does the body do that? Well, progesterone tends to be called the pregnancy hormone or the growth hormone because it's allowing your body to, if you were pregnant, now grow a baby.
Your baby needs glucose to grow. And so we put a pregnant woman goes in a slightly insulin resistant state intentionally so that she can grow her baby. And so in that two week wait, after you ovulate, before you know if you're pregnant or not, the body is preparing for if you are now pregnant. And so you have that change in your insulin sensitivity.
So you need more calories. Get cravings. Yeah, you have cravings. You [00:38:00] can't go very far in between eating. And it's actually, that's good. Like you should listen to that. Actually, women should eat more calories in their luteal phase. They should not intermittent fast, they should don't skip breakfast. All of those things to really support what the body is saying it needs.
And this is probably the time to be more careful with things that do. Send your glucose through the roof. So this is not the time to eat sugar on an empty stomach. You really have to prioritize that protein and complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbs or liquid sugar. And yes, yeah, for sure, because it's really, you know, you're gonna send your body right into a, you're gonna go up and then you're gonna come crashing down, and then you're hungry again, and you're like, but I just ate.
Why am I hungry again? You're really, mm-hmm. You need to manage your glucose well during that luteal phase. So it's fascinating again for this we see these actionable changes that women can do when they understand what, what phase of the cycle their body is in.
Michelle: It's so fascinating and this is why I actually recommend [00:39:00] journaling, how you're feeling as well on top of measuring your hormones.
'cause then you can start to understand, it's almost like biofeedback. You're getting a feedback and then you're also paying attention to your own internal senses. Yes. Which is your own internal intelligence communicating with you. So I love that. I think that that's it's just so empowering. I really, I really feel like that is.
One of the best ways that people can get empowered on their cycles and their fertility overall.
Rose: Yeah. I tell people if you can get your hands on A CGM, you will learn more about yourself and if you pair CGM and mirror it together, it is the best because if you can only get a CGM for the two week timeframe, then I tell people, please try to wear it a week before you ovulate, a week after you ovulate, because your body responds differently in those two phases.
Or some people will only do the luteal phase. I'm like, well, you will respond the worst in your luteal phase. So if you wanna know, you know, if you spike your blood sugar with a sweet potato [00:40:00] versus rice, you know everyone's different. One thing will set one person off compared to the other. So you can learn that about yourself by doing a CGM and mirror.
Michelle: Something else. I mean, I, I wonder if they can um, look at HRV as well, you know, heart rate variability. Yeah. You know, HeartMath heart brain coherence because in Chinese medicine, the heart really has, plays an important role on Yes. getting your period and opening the uterus, really that connection.
So I'd be curious. I'd be curious. That would be an interesting study. I don't know if you know, yeah, there's, there's, that would be something, some,
Rose: there's some known information around that, but I would say more effort needs to be put into that. We know how women like handle stress changes from one cycle to the next.
So I've, I've heard yeah. You know, it it be said. So Alicia Vidi runs a program called In the Flow, and she's the one that created the cycle sinking method. And, and she talks about like, you know, if you're gonna ask for a bonus or ask for a raise or try to get a job or speak in front of a bunch of people, you really want that leading up to or during ovulation.[00:41:00]
Michelle: True. And because
Rose: that's, that's
Michelle: the summer, the bloom. Yes. Yes,
Rose: exactly. And so, you know, there's, we have things written into our bodies that again, we, we really need to get in tune with. So.
Michelle: Not to keep going on with this. Yeah, sure. But it makes me think about other things. I remember seeing a documentary about and they had like pictures of women's faces throughout their cycle and they become more attractive.
Like the features become Yes. More attractive around ovulation. Yeah. And they had these like snapshots and you can see almost like they're, they're the sides of their mouth go up. Like they start looking like they're smiling, like mm-hmm. It's really fascinating. Yeah.
Rose: Related to estrogen. Estrogen brings more blood flow, and so women's faces will actually change color when you're getting close to ovulation.
Wow. Which is fascinating. You know, again, so fascinating. These things that we've known at least. Research has known but it has not really been brought that forefront for us. [00:42:00]
Michelle: For sure. Well, this was such a fascinating conversation. I knew we were gonna have a good conversation. Yes. We've spoken before, rose and I, I think that we uh, definitely can nerd out about this.
So, so thank you so much for coming on today. It was such a, such a great conversation.
Rose: Thank you. Happy to be here. And again, don't guess just test, don't guess what your hormones are doing. Yeah. Just figure it out and, and find a clinician who truly listens to you and understands your hormones as well.
Michelle: Yes. Great advice. Thank you so much, rose.
Rose: Yes, thank you.
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