Ep 409: Fertility as an Initiation: Surrender, the Feminine, and Trusting the Intelligence of Your Body
Episode Description:
In this episode, Michelle sits down with licensed acupuncturist and certified herbalist Ariele Myers for a conversation that moves from clinical fertility care into something deeper. Ariele shares how two decades of practice slowly reshaped her own approach, from reading labs and chasing balance toward honoring the feminine, the nervous system, and the quiet intelligence the body already holds. The heart of it is a single shift: what happens when we stop treating the body as broken and start meeting fertility as an experience to enter rather than a problem to fix.
Together they explore the difference between surrender and defeat, why staying present can soften even the most reactive moments, and how many women on the fertility path quietly carry the belief that if they could just fix the one right thing, everything would fall into place. Ariele and Michelle talk about pleasure as a form of activism, the way our attention has become our most valuable currency, and what it means to keep loving yourself through a journey that does not always move on your timeline.
This is a slower, soul-level conversation for any woman who has been doing everything right and still feels like something is missing. It offers a gentle reframe. Your body is not the problem to be solved. It may be the doorway.
Key Takeaways:
Fertility can be met as an experience to enter rather than a problem to fix. That shift, from something is wrong to something is unfolding, changes how the whole journey feels in the body.
Surrender is not the same as giving up. It is the capacity to stay grounded and trust the process while still rising to advocate for yourself when the moment calls for it.
Presence is a nervous system practice. Staying with what you feel, instead of running from it, lets hard emotions move through rather than getting held in place.
Your attention and energy are a real currency. Protecting your presence from what drains it is a quiet but powerful form of self-care on the fertility path.
Loving yourself through the journey, including the tender question of whether you can feel whole even if it looks different than you hoped, is part of the medicine, not a detour from it.
Guest Bio: Ariele Myers, L.Ac., is a licensed acupuncturist and certified herbalist with 20 years of clinical experience in women's reproductive health. She is the founder of Wisdom of the Womb, a wellness brand specializing in herbal support for fertility, cycle health, and hormonal balance, and the creator of the Fertile Mama Method, her signature initiation into fertility. She integrates Traditional Chinese Medicine with modern fertility care and speaks regularly on whole-person approaches to conception.
https://www.instagram.com/wisdomofthewomb
https://www.facebook.com/allwomenarefertile/
https://arielemyers.substack.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@ArieleMyersWisdomoftheWomb
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
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# Audio\_TWF\_409
[00:00:00] Episode number 409 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbits, and today my guest is Ariel Myers, a licensed acupuncturist and certified herbalist with 20 years of experience in women's reproductive health. She's the founder of Wisdom of the Womb and the creator of Fertile Mama Method, and she weaves traditional Chinese medicine together with modern fertility care in a way that feels both grounded and deeply human.
She's also, I have to say, one of my favorite people to talk to, and you will see why. If you've ever felt like your body was something that needed to be fixed, like if you could just find that one missing piece, then everything would finally fall into place, this conversation is going to meet you right where you are and maybe shift a little bit of your perspective.
Ariel and I talk about what [00:01:00] shifts when fertility stops being a problem to solve and becomes an experience to enter. We get into the real difference between surrender and giving up, and what it means to protect your energy in a world that is always asking for it. This one went deep, and I loved every moment of it, so let's get into it.
Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility journey
MICHELLE: Welcome to the podcast, Arielle. I'm so excited to finally have you
ARIELE: I'm so excited to be here. Thank you
MICHELLE: So Ariel was on my summit, ~~um,~~ my most recent summit, the Fertile Shift Summit, and we had such a great talk, and we find that we have so much in common. And I was also on her, ~~um,~~ [00:02:00] membership, right? It was a membership that you had?
ARIELE: yeah. We're actually, like, ending that, so you are one of the final, maybe the final, maybe we have one more, but yeah.
MICHELLE: Oh, thank you. ~~Well, thank ~~
ARIELE: note. Yeah.
MICHELLE: you for having me.
But every single time I talk to Arielle, we just have such a great conversation. I feel like we're like, ~~um,~~ sort of soul sister energy. Like we're on the same page. ~~Like,~~ it's funny 'cause as you were asking me questions last time I was on your membership, whenever I would think something in my mind, you would say it.
And I was like, "She's asking me exactly like what I'm... Like she's like picking up on my thoughts." I'm like, "Okay, cool. We're like really on the same page." Yeah. And we both have curly hair, which we talked about was like antennas, so very creative. ~~Um, ~~and I love the fact that you're an herbalist and you really work with herbs, which I, we talked about that.
~~Like, ~~it's just, there's something about that, the spirit of that, which I find to be so powerful. ~~Um,~~ but before we get started, I would love for [00:03:00] listeners to hear more about you and how you got into the work that you're doing.
ARIELE: Oh my gosh. Yeah, ~~how, ~~how long should I make this? ~~Like, ~~I
MICHELLE: I know that's always the same,
ARIELE: three minutes or 10 minutes. Yeah. ~~Um,~~ yeah, ~~you know, ~~it's funny because ~~I, I kind of~~ feel like this medicine found me in a way. ~~Um, I mean, ~~I was always interested in health and wellness. Like ~~I, ~~I, my-- had some familial health stuff, ~~um, ~~that I always felt ~~like, ~~I felt like there was an emotional component, but the doctors would be like, "No, it's just genetics.
It's just..." Not me personally, but family members. So I always ~~kind of ~~was like, there's something more. So when I found acupuncture, it was just like, oh my God, this makes sense. Like that there's... And it was so simple. I loved that it was like you could go into it ~~and learn it, and learn it,~~ and learn it for your entire life and still not know everything.
But you could also break it down ~~like~~ so simplistically in a way, like hot and cold, yin and yang, internal, external. ~~Um, ~~and then yeah, as far as like fertility and women's wellness, ~~um, ~~I almost feel like I had like different phases of my career, [00:04:00] like one, like different versions. ~~Um,~~ the first was when I start, first started practicing,~~ um,~~ a lot of women trying to get pregnant started coming to me.
I wasn't like looking for it. I wasn't particularly interested in it. ~~Um, ~~but then I was like really good at it. I had a high success rate and I could be like, "Oh, I'm like doing this right,"~~ you know, ~~"I'm doing this well." ~~Um, ~~and I was really into functional medicine and ~~kind of ~~reading labs and working with reproductive endocrinologists and the doctors and, ~~um, ~~and, ~~um...~~
But like now looking back, I could still see that I had of~~ like ~~the idea of like there's something wrong with the body. Like even though I was using holistic language like, "Oh, there's something out of balance and we need to bring it back to balance." ~~Like,~~ oh, we're gonna look at the branch, not the root, or like the root, not the branch.
In my mind, it was still like something is wrong that needs to be fixed. ~~Um- ~~And then ~~kind of like~~ separately, I won't go like too far into it, but like separately in my own life, I was ~~kind of like,~~ there's like this missing link, like this missing thing. Like I like have done all the things I'm supposed to do.
I like have my two kids. I'm [00:05:00] happy. I'm married. ~~You know, ~~I have the career I love. There's something missing, like underlying. And I started to feel that same thing in my patients of ~~like, ~~we were looking at all the labs, we were doing all the things, but there was like this energy missing that I like didn't even have a name for.
~~Um, ~~and kind of the path took me to move to Colorado, and I started diving into like the realm of the feminine and started really working with my alchemical teachers and learning more about yin and yang. And,~~ um, in~~ some ways that really shifted the way I worked with fertility, was like not as a problem to be fixed, but like an experience to enter, which had so much to do
MICHELLE: I love that
ARIELE: our connection to the feminine, our connection to the divine, and really like looking at all the ways that I didn't even recognize were ~~like, like ~~so ingrained in my experience of being a woman, being in a female body, which I like always hated in a lot of ways,~~ you know?~~
Like wasn't-- So yeah, there's, there was a lot, ~~you know, ~~in that. But, ~~um, ~~I think that maybe answered your question and then maybe~~ like ~~20 more that you didn't ask
MICHELLE: No, [00:06:00] no. I wanna, I love diving deep because I love people's experiences. I feel like, ~~um, ~~you can learn so much from people's experiences, and it also in some weird way validates, I think for the listeners and for me, sometimes you can share an ex- this is why I think sharing is so important. Sometimes we think it's ~~like,~~ "Oh, ~~well, ~~w- ~~um, you know, ~~this is ~~kind of~~ like a random thing that I went through."
But a lot of times it validates when people hear what you're sharing, it validates a lot of their experiences, and then it makes people realize, "Oh, wow, I went through the same exact thing," or, "I had that epiphany and that really ~~kind of like ~~confirms that I'm not crazy," or~~ you know what I mean? ~~And so it's those subtleties, yeah.
ARIELE: Yeah, there's like this feeling, ~~uh, ~~that really shifted, which was like, ~~um,~~ I didn't even realize all the ways I was living it and experiencing of it as like something is wrong and I need to figure it out and do it right and~~ like ~~get it right. And like the way I did everything was like that, the way I like,~~ you know, just~~ did life and relationship.
And I personally didn't have a f- [00:07:00] you know, issue with fertility, ~~um, ~~but I recognized it in so many of the women who~~ were, ~~were coming in for fertility was like, "If I just figure out this one thing and ~~like ~~fix it," rather than it being like, "Oh, I'm in this like magnificent female fucking body. Like holy moly, like if I can just get to like experience like the deliciousness of all of it, like maybe that is like the, the magic, the like link."
MICHELLE: It really is.~~ I'm, ~~I'm like, ~~um, you know, ~~and it's funny 'cause I, I think I read it a while ago, but I don't really, ~~um, ~~remember all the details. You know the book, "The Obstacle Is The Way"? I think the title, it's just the title. The title, like I feel it in the ti- it's almost like just that phrase
ARIELE: ~~Yeah~~
MICHELLE: is so powerful.
~~And, ~~and I find that to be the case, and I've found that to be the case in my life. And many times where I've maybe, ~~you know, like ~~bumped into like challenges or something would come up or even trigger an old emotion, which those can be rough because then you're like: "Oh, wow, I haven't felt this in a long [00:08:00] time.
Why am I feeling like this?" Or if it's like a situation happens and something doesn't work out with a business, personal life, and then you start to feel that like old sort of pattern that you felt when you were younger and you're like: "Whoa, what is this?" And you feel a little out of control in that sense.
So your first initial reaction is, "I don't wanna feel like this. I'm gonna either run away from it or, ~~you know, ~~whatever I need to do to not feel this." But what,~~ you know, ~~now that I've learned The Work, ~~you know, ~~like I've learned-- I, I've been on this path too long ~~to,~~ to say that. I've realized, no, it's actually sitting with it and feeling it and being with it and giving it the love and attention and consciousness to move and validating it.
So ~~like ~~when you actually allow that energy to move through, that's when so much magic happens and you're like, "Wow." And then you really-- It, ~~it's just, ~~it's just an emotion that wants to pass through. It's like a cloud. It's like a thundercloud that just wants to pass through, and many times we'll resist it 'cause we [00:09:00] don't wanna feel it.
ARIELE: Ugh.
MICHELLE: Right?
ARIELE: ~~I,~~ I read that book. So yeah, last-- ~~I, I, I mean,~~ I won't go into it, but I've been in the process of getting sued by an ex-business partner, like over
MICHELLE: Oh, no. I'm so sorry
ARIELE: but it's ~~kind of like ~~grown me in such a profound way that like, yes, like what you're talking about, wanting to resist it, wanting to ~~like ~~push it away, wanting to ~~like, you know.~~
And it's like sometimes you just have to~~ like ~~go through the experience. And like in some ways now I can actually say ~~like, I mean,~~ it sounds crazy, but it's like I'm grateful for the experience because it's shown me parts of myself that I might not have ever met otherwise.~~ So, I mean,~~ I hope it ends soon,~~ but~~
MICHELLE: I hope so too, ~~uh, ~~for you. ~~And, ~~and ~~you know, ~~have you heard of "The Untethered Soul"? I'm sure you've read that book, right?
ARIELE: ~~Well, ~~so I actually didn't read that one, but I read his other one, "The Surrender Experiment," exper- is it experience or experiment? Because "The Surrender Experiment," yeah, because that was when this all started, it was like, there's nothing I can do. Like there's n- when it's like someone is out to... It was like, [00:10:00] there's nothing I can do except just~~ like ~~trust the universe.
And it,~~ there's, ~~there's like a fine line I think between it being like bypassing, ~~like,~~ "Just trust the universe, everything will work out." But just ~~like, ~~no, there's like, yes, I will fight when I need to. I will stand up for myself. I will defend myself. I will stay aligned with like truth and integrity. But also ~~like, ~~if I let myself feel like, like I'm gonna be destroyed or fight it, it's like it will ruin my life before,~~ like ~~take away from my time with my kids and my enjoyment of my friends and ~~like,~~ it's like he'll have already won before, ~~you know, ~~anything's been decided.
So it's ~~like, ~~it's been such a practice, and also ~~my, ~~my south node is in Pisces for the astrology people. Like it, it's actually been a really good practice for me to s- to just surrender, like to just trust. ~~Like, ~~okay, ~~even if, ~~even if he wipes out everything, even if my business is destroyed, like I will trust ~~that that~~ is the way too.
Like there's ~~like~~ so much trust ~~in, ~~in surrendering.
MICHELLE: Yeah, which is such a powerful thing to say when you're going through it. That's-- I think that's the [00:11:00] key. I think ~~that ~~that's the key because people can say it after the fact, "Oh, ~~you know,~~ like I found joy," ~~you know, ~~but when you're actually going through it. And the reason why I'm saying, ~~um, you know, ~~the book "The Untethered Soul," while he was writing that book, I believe he was getting sued
ARIELE: Yeah, I know there... I don't know if when he wrote-- I should read that one
MICHELLE: I think so because I remember him on Oprah and he was saying that, he was saying that he was getting sued. It was like, kinda~~ like~~ the worst events of his life happened while he was writing the book, and he was saying ~~that ~~that practice that he had of just surrendering and allowing and that trust was what got him through.
And ~~he,~~ he said, ~~you know, ~~it's like things come at you, and the reason why we have blocks and ~~sort of, I guess,~~ spirals that continue, ~~you know,~~ these kind of, ~~uh,~~ cycles, is 'cause we hold them in place by resisting and kinda holding onto them, contracting. Whereas he was saying like to allow and then it kinda moves through.
~~And, ~~and so I was like, that's fascinating. So when he said that, I just thought-- When you had mentioned that,~~ I,~~ I thought about [00:12:00] that.
ARIELE: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna read that book. I'm
MICHELLE: It's powerful
ARIELE: I feel like I-- m-maybe I read it or it's, ~~like,~~ on my Kindle, but yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it. There's something about, ~~like,~~ both surrendering while simultaneously knowing you can, ~~like, ~~rise when the time comes. It's ~~kind of ~~like this yin and yang of,~~ like, ~~I can surrender, ~~you know,~~ which it
MICHELLE: Wu Wei. It's Wu
ARIELE: Wu Wei. I
MICHELLE: Yes, effortless effort. So the effort comes when the effort needs to come, but it doesn't come a minute before that, 'cause if it does, then you're draining your energy for when you do need it.
ARIELE: how you just did that because I was thinking that too. It's ~~like ~~when you were talking about it, we did. It's our curly
MICHELLE: get that soul, like the curly hair mind.
ARIELE: Yeah. Yeah, I think sometimes we think of surrender as like defeat, ~~you know?~~ I think that's like those words can sometimes be synonymous, but it feels so different. It actually feels like, ~~um, um, ~~there's almost a sense of ~~like, um,~~ like nothing can actually defeat me if I'm surrendered to the, to just [00:13:00] whatever happens, like the trust in the universe ~~and,~~ and like knowing that I'm, ~~you know, ~~I've done everything intentionally.
~~I mean,~~ there's also ~~like~~ if I had done shady stuff, then of course it's like, "Ooh, I don't wanna get caught." But, ~~you know,~~ knowing that like I was intentional, I was aligned, I was truthful, it's like,
MICHELLE: ~~Mm-hmm.~~
ARIELE: all right, ~~you know? ~~It's all I can do is stand in that.
MICHELLE: ~~I, ~~I had an interesting thing happen. It was, ~~uh,~~ a, a couple years ago, I was writing down-- I, I did some automatic writing. ~~Um,~~ I think I was worried about the world, ~~you know,~~ just ~~like, uh,~~ I don't know if it was during COVID or something, ~~you know. ~~It's just ~~kind of like, ~~"What's happening?" ~~Um,~~ and so I remember writing something down and just wanting ~~kind of like, I guess,~~ divine wisdom or to tap into it.
And I've done that before with automatic writing, where I ask a question and then I just write. ~~Um, ~~and then I'll keep writing, ~~uh,~~ no matter what it is. Even if nothing comes to me, I'll say, "I don't know what to write," for ~~like ~~10 times in a row until something comes, just so that I can continue writing.
And then usually something always does come because I don't remember the information until I read it. ~~Like, ~~I just write it, and then when I read~~ it, it,~~ it [00:14:00] speaks to me and I'm like, "I didn't realize I just wrote this." ~~Like, ~~so then I know it came from somewhere. And one of the things it said, and maybe this is, ~~you know,~~ no coincidence, but one, that you need to hear this maybe, but one of the things it said is that if you, ~~um, you,~~ you have-- you need to not fear about being broken.
~~Um, ~~if you can get broken, it's okay. Break, because whatever broke isn't who you really are, isn't your true essence. Your true essence is ~~kind of~~ like what's waiting behind that shell that needed to break. So I was like, "Whoa. Okay. I get it." ~~Like,~~ I can't be broken. I cannot be broken. ~~Like, ~~we, in our divine essence of who we truly are, our truth can never be broken.
It's eternal
ARIELE: I just see someone coming to my door, but hopefully they don't ring the doorbell.
MICHELLE: Okay.
ARIELE: Yeah, I love that. No, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it actually feels, I know-- I don't know if you [00:15:00] followed, ~~um,~~ Carolyn Lovell. ~~Well, ~~she wrote "Existential Kink," and she actually passed away yesterday, so just ~~like ~~sent a little, yeah, a little like honoring to her. But ~~her,~~ her work really impacted my life and changed the trajectory, I think, of my life.
And yeah, she just ~~kind of~~ talked about that a lot of ~~like, um,~~ the stuff that like we hide and that we like keep a shell around and we keep the most hidden and we don't wanna, is actually~~ like ~~where so much of our magic lies.
MICHELLE: Ooh, I love that. What's her name? Carolyn?
ARIELE: Car- well, so the book is under Carolyn Elliott. ~~Um,~~ but then sh- ~~I,~~ I don't know if it was a maiden name or what, but she changed it to Lovell, and the, the book was "Existential
MICHELLE: Mm-hmm
ARIELE: Kink."
I think it came out in 2020. And, ~~uh,~~ it was basically like, ~~um,~~ one of the main things ~~that, ~~that came through it to me was that ~~having, ~~having is,~~ um,~~ I'm like blanking on the word. Having is a sign of wanting. So ~~like, ~~even if you like think you like hate this thing in your life that keeps happening or like this relationship that's ~~like ~~so bad and like this person, it's [00:16:00] like if you have it, there's a part of you, even if like she calls it a kink, like even if it's like a kinky part that won't admit that you have it, it's like a sadistic part that like you, you like, like having that like, ah, this frustration.
It's like if you can actually look at ba- that and be like, "What part of me is choosing that?"
MICHELLE: ~~Uh-huh.~~
ARIELE: I'm fighting against it and railing
MICHELLE: a relationship
ARIELE: and blah. Yeah. It's ~~like, ~~which part of me is like actively continuing to engage in that relationship? And two years after I read that book, ~~I mean,~~ it was a process, but ~~I,~~ I ended a 20-year marriage.
Like I think it just helped me so I'm like really have a lot of gratitude to her and for her work. Yeah.
MICHELLE: So it's, ~~uh,~~ it was liberating. ~~And it,~~ and it also is empowering. It's an empowering thought 'cause then you're realizing that there's part of me that's engaging in this rather than something happening to me without me wanting it there. Like maybe there's something subconsciously that allows it, and we see this a lot is patterns happen.
We see it also in our work, but there's patterns where I'll [00:17:00] see certain people who are like the nicest people, and they'll attract people who tend to be really abusive or mean or critical, and I see that. I've seen it when I was younger. It was just like patterns of relationships and, ~~um, ~~until I was aware of it, and I feel like that, that consciousness is the antidote.
That's what I always say, like consciousness is the antidote because that is when you will see it. When you see it, you're able to let it go.
ARIELE: Yeah. She talks a lot about, ~~like,~~ victim consciousness, which of course is not to ~~like, you know, I mean,~~ won't go into like the, the blame. There's no blame. It's just like, but when you can look at all the ways you're identifying as a victim of your experience rather, ~~you know, it's~~ like there's, there is something really empowering to be like, "Actually, no."
~~Like,~~ either I'm gonna ~~like ~~acknowledge that I'm choosing to be the victim and I'm like taking some kind of like delight in that, or I'm gonna be like, "No." And that doesn't mean like something didn't happen that ~~like, you know,~~ it's~~ like, ~~"Oh, maybe I was a victim of this experience, but I can choose not to participate in the, in that experience anymore as a victim."
[00:18:00] I'm not really quite wording it right,
MICHELLE: Yeah, no, I totally 100% understand~~ and,~~ and, ~~uh, ~~acknowledge that. ~~I mean, you know, ~~it's interesting because I've seen,~~ um, ~~similar stories with different people, and you will see different approaches. ~~I mean, ~~my husband lost his mom when he was 16, and I remember when I met him, I was ~~like, like, you know,~~ it just-- the-- m- my feeling for-- my heart broke.
I was like: How could-- ~~Like, ~~that must have been, like, the worst possible thing. ~~And, ~~and I was really ~~kind of, like,~~ blown away 'cause he always has such great things to say about her, and obviously great, ~~um, ~~stories and l- and loves her, but he didn't see himself as a victim, ~~like, ~~in that sense. And I was ~~kind of like,~~ I would've been like, "Oh my God," ~~you know,~~ like the worst, ~~you know, you, you know,~~ it's just like the...
When you hear it, it's just like it's, ~~it, it,~~ it takes you back. But I just was amazed at how,~~ like,~~ he went through so many difficult things and ~~kind of like ~~worked to, ~~you know,~~ get himself through med school, and ~~I mean, ~~he obviously had some help, but, ~~you know,~~ didn't see it. He was like: "Oh, ~~you know, ~~it was just what I had to do."
~~Like, ~~he didn't really s- he just saw it as in neutral, like
ARIELE: Hmm.
MICHELLE: lens. ~~And I,~~ and I thought that was [00:19:00] interesting, and it really actually taught me a lot. ~~Like, ~~he probably doesn't even realize that, ~~but ~~but it's interesting how there's so many different ways to look at things ~~and,~~ and~~ I, ~~I don't know where this quote comes from, but I've heard of this.
I don't know if it's like ancient,~~ um,~~ teachings or like ~~kind of, it,~~ it seems like a Zen Buddhist kind of mentality that everything is neutral, that we make it good and bad.
ARIELE: Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that a lot with ~~like, ~~obviously I won't go too much into it, but like with everything happening in the world around me, I've really been thinking about like... And one of my teachers actually talks about this a lot, because Lori Deschar, she wrote "Five, Five Spirits." I don't know if you know her.
She's a, a acupuncturist too, and writer. ~~Um, ~~but she was like a big activist in her 20s, and she was just seeing all the activists around her like drop. Like they just couldn't sustain that level of energy. It's ~~kind of ~~like wood energy, like~~ fight, fight,~~ fight. But if it never goes to, to joy, to fire, it just, ~~you know,~~ becomes impotent.
It just collapses. And just really thinking [00:20:00] about ~~like, ~~like it almost feels like, ~~um,~~ a version of activism too, to ~~like~~ continue ~~to,~~ to seek pleasure. Like I could be horrif- ~~I mean,~~ I am, I'm horrified and like ~~you know, ~~angry and all the things. But it's like to live in that, like I ~~just, ~~I just don't think we can sustain it.
Like human, the human body and the human spirit is not meant to sustain this like level ~~of, ~~of horror. And not to say that we don't do what we can, ~~you know,~~ to like rail against it and resist. But when there's nothing to do, it's almost ~~like, ~~I think, ~~um,~~ is it Adrienne Maree Brown writes about pleasure activism.
Like sometimes just, ~~you know,~~ loving each other and delighting in each other and like having experiences and community and connection is like what I've been seeing as maybe the most powerful form of activism, and maybe like smashing cameras. I wish
MICHELLE: No, that's so powerful
ARIELE: enough to do that.
MICHELLE: because I remember, ~~um,~~ I love Eckhart Tolle, like I've always really followed his work, and one of the things he said is that when somebody gets really deep in the pain body, ~~if,~~ if [00:21:00] anybody, ~~um... Are,~~ are you familiar with his work?
ARIELE: No, ~~I mean, ~~I've ~~like ~~seen him on Oprah and stuff, and I have-- I feel like I started his book. ~~I, ~~I'm a big starter of books and not a big finisher of books, so I feel like that's the one I started and never
MICHELLE: That's a really good one. It's,~~ um,~~ I would definitely recommend,
ARIELE: have... I'm like looking
MICHELLE: again and finishing it 'cause it's so good. ~~Um,~~ but the way he talks is about like really consciousness and it, ~~you know, ~~he went through a whole process of, ~~um, ~~a break, ~~I guess,~~ like he went through that break and that break was not him, and then he like,~~ it,~~ it connected with ~~him,~~ him to this like enlightened state where everything became new and he was just aware of things that he never paid attention to, and it was just like he felt so much more alive.
And so then he starts to really break down and became a teacher just from his experience. And, ~~um,~~ I'm saying it to, you probably know this, but for people listening. ~~Um,~~ and so he talks about unconsciousness and ego mentality, ~~kind of~~ like identification and how when people start to take a position, they ~~sort of, uh, ~~take that [00:22:00] position that becomes like almost like they need to fight something else in order to be more of their position.
~~Uh,~~ and then if a person comes in and they're really in their ego and ~~they,~~ they have ~~like~~ a really strong pain body and they're trying to trigger you in some way, and they're coming at you and they're poking your buttons and, ~~you know,~~ you know how it is. And then it triggers something, and then when you really, if you really get triggered, you almost become blind to your consciousness.
Your consciousness leaves and you get taken over by a pain body. And so the, he calls it a pain body, and that sometimes somebody has a pain body, and even if your pain body's not active, it's dormant, they can smell it. ~~They,~~ they'll know how to awaken it. It's the weirdest thing, but it's true. I know that if you have ~~family, ~~family members, you know that.
Like it's just even with family dynamics or, ~~uh, you know, ~~parents or whatever, the, or kids, th- they know how to kinda trigger those, those primal pain bodies or that something. So he said the antidote for that is real [00:23:00] extreme presence, and if you can stay present in that and not react, kinda stay there composed, and instead of reacting, feel the energy in your body, feel the pain body as it's coming up, feel what's coming up, then what happens is if you can maintain that presence, eventually just that presence and that kind of like state will create presence in the person who's trying to trigger you.
ARIELE: ~~Hmm.~~
MICHELLE: And then they start to notice themselves instead of focusing on you. And then, ~~and I've, ~~and I've tried that, ~~you know, ~~with certain family members and ~~it, ~~it works.
ARIELE: It does work? Yeah. ~~Um, well,~~ there's something about ~~like, um, ~~what you were talking
MICHELLE: Yeah. It's hard. I'm not saying it's not hard.
ARIELE: were-- There's something about~~ like, um,~~
the extractive nature ~~of,~~ of everything that like really, like~~ if, ~~if our presence and our like energy and attention like is currency, like I've been thinking about this in terms of like social media and that like everything is ~~like ~~meant to ~~like ~~[00:24:00] capture our attention and ~~like ~~ex- it really is like extracting our presence from us and ~~like ~~pull it, whether it's rage bait or clickbait or even like I had this experience of like having to spend some time with someone who was like, he was one of those guys that's like, "I'm so in my masculine" and that ~~like, ~~"Women who are not in their feminine,~~ you know, ~~can't experience my masculine."
And I felt this like, ooh, like just ~~like~~ wanting to be like... And it
MICHELLE: up in your mouth a little?
ARIELE: it was, I was like it was almost funny, but ~~like,~~ it was ~~kind of like,~~ oh, I can feel how this is like pulling on an energy. Like this is not worth the energy it would take to even~~ like, ~~like it's not my work to ~~like ~~educate this man or ~~like ~~put him in his place or ~~like, you know,~~ not try to prove that ~~like, well,~~ I'm in my feminine, ~~you know,~~ like whatever.
It was ~~kind of~~ like, and it was just what you were talking about with Eckhart Tolle, ~~you know,~~ it's ~~like ~~continue to come back to now to like this, this presence. It's ~~like ~~whenever I'm like getting sucked in, 'cause ~~you know,~~ I'm like addicted to my phone too, but I really try to look at like [00:25:00] it's my currency.
~~Like~~ my, it's not just about like money is not cur- like I feel like our most valuable currency now~~ is our, ~~is our engagement, our attention, our energy, our presence. And it's ~~like, ~~I don't know, this, this whole like social media stuff has become so extractive and also like participating it on the other end because I'm like, "Oh, I have this program I'm gonna sell or I have these products I'm gonna sell."
It's like, how is there a way to do it? Like I wish there was a way to do it without social media. Like part of me wants to go back to just like being like a acupuncturist in the woods and ~~like, you know, ~~let people come find me. But it's like the reality ~~of, ~~of living. I, ~~it's, ~~it's a real constant back and forth of ~~like ~~how to do it in a way that feels intentional and ~~like ~~letting the people who are actually interested in what you have to offer find you and~~ like ~~be available to be found without it being like, "Look at me.
I'm gonna, ~~you~~
MICHELLE: I know. It's,~~ it, ~~it's like a draining aspect of it. And, ~~um,~~ I'll be honest, it's, [00:26:00] I feel like we're moving towards sort of in-person retreats or in-person connections because people are really thirsting for that. And, ~~um,~~ and there's been, ~~you know, ~~like there's been,~~ I guess, ~~studies that sort of, ~~um, ~~support that.
It's Al- Ali Domar. It's more about group therapy, but like helping fertility outcomes really coming together because when you have this group energy and like you look at almost the Maharishi effect. You've... Have you heard of that? It's the Maharishi experiment. What was it? ~~Um,~~ there's a... It was a science study.
It was a study, research, ~~uh, ~~that was done on Maharishi's type of meditation ~~and,~~ and bringing people... ~~Let me, ~~let me look it up. Maharishi
ARIELE: Yeah, I'm curious
MICHELLE: Now there was something. It was when people... Okay, yeah. It's called the Maharishi effect, and it's a, he had mentioned~~ or,~~ or he had, ~~um,~~ predicted that if [00:27:00] a huge group of people come together in meditation, that it will not only impact them, but it's gonna impact the world. It'll have a ripple effect. And in fact, they did some study or research,~~ I, ~~I believe it was in the either early '80s or '70s, where a huge group of people came together, maybe 1,400, and meditated.
And,~~ um,~~ they started looking at cr- crime rates, ~~um,~~ and also before and after, and also, ~~um,~~ terrorist rates, and all of those did actually go down. So it was a measurable...
ARIELE: I forget that is what I heard. I heard of someone talking about ~~like, ~~it's like, ~~um,~~ it might be totally different, but like a tipping point of ~~like~~ if a certain number of people like reach a higher vibration or something, like ~~it,~~ it, it pulls everyone else towards it. Rather, like there was one... It was one s- study with like they had~~ like~~ a dozen eggs or something, and they were like ~~kind of ~~like poor quality, like [00:28:00] farm raised, like lower, ~~you know,~~ nutrient value eggs.
And then they put~~ like ~~one like pasture raised, ~~you know,~~ like really, or the other one was a factory and this one was farm. And they like studied, I don't know how they did it, but they like studied the molecular structure or something, or like the vibration of the eggs. And rather than the, the good quality egg getting less energetically, I'm like not having the right
MICHELLE: Yeah, no, I 100%
ARIELE: like the other eggs actually became like better somehow. I don't know what exactly they were measuring,
MICHELLE: it influenced.
ARIELE: Yeah.
MICHELLE: That makes
ARIELE: it was,
yeah.
MICHELLE: think about it. We've all had moments like that, right? Where we walked in, maybe we were a little like low on energy or feeling down, and then we get into a group of people that are high vibe or even a friend that really makes you feel so good and ~~like ~~with it validated too, because I think ~~that ~~that's important too.
~~Like~~ not somebody who's ~~like~~ so po- you have to think positive. No, that doesn't, that's not the same. Like [00:29:00] truly emanating that energy and that, ~~and,~~ and with validation, feeling really ~~like ~~seen ~~and,~~ and feeling really good. It elevates you. Like that sense of love and that connection really elevates you. So I do think that we've all anecdotally experienced something like that.
That's why having an acupuncturist that you feel a synergistic effect with or you feel aligned with is so important, because when you have somebody that you don't, which some people don't, ~~they,~~ they have a bad experience with acupuncture or even yoga, and I'm like, "No, it's the teacher or it's the practitioner that can make a huge difference."
ARIELE: Yeah. I hope we start. ~~I mean, ~~I feel like we are, like I am personally am doing less Zoom and more in-person, but~~ I, ~~I do hope we come back to in-person retreats. And there's also something about like when you're showing up to something, it's like stuff will happen, stuff will come up. You can't, ~~you know, ~~hide behind whatever comes up and type something out and, ~~you know,~~ it's like there'll be upset and [00:30:00] repair and ~~it, ~~it like feel, it's more like in real time,
MICHELLE: Yes. ~~I,~~ I really believe it. I think that it's so powerful, and it's one of the reasons I go every year to Joe Dispenza's retreats. I go once a year. ~~Like,~~ yeah, I do. ~~I, I, ~~I have to go. It's so good. Because one of the reasons why-- Well, first of all, I keep learning his craft.~~ Like,~~ I keep learning more because his teaching is so different.
It's so unique. It's ~~so, like,~~ not what we hear about or grew up with, ~~like,~~ in reality. ~~It's,~~ it's a very different way of looking at the world, and I have to-- I feel like listening to it over and over again really imprints it and gets it in there. Plus, it's really ~~the,~~ the group, the energy of the group, everybody meditating together.
There's something that happens that's so magical, and it's usually about 1,500 or 1,800 people in a room all week. So you're just, ~~like, ~~buzzing by the time you get out. It's just incredible
ARIELE: I've never been-- I don't think I've ever been in something with a group that big. Are you [00:31:00] an introvert or an extrovert, Gary? Do
MICHELLE: I'm an ambivert.
ARIELE: Ambivert. I think I am too. I was just wondering, ~~like,~~ that almost feels like it would be exhausting to be, like, on, ~~you know, ~~for
MICHELLE: It is. It
ARIELE: maybe there's a way that
MICHELLE: it's also amazing,
ARIELE: you can, ~~like,~~
disappear in it a
MICHELLE: Yeah, because it ~~kind of~~ transforms you, ~~and,~~ and with transformation you gotta get uncomfortable. He says it. He says, ~~um, you know,~~ "You're gonna be uncomfortable. I'm gonna push you. ~~You know,~~ this is gonna push you out of your comfort zone." And that's the whole idea, too,
ARIELE: ~~Hmm.~~
MICHELLE: to ~~kind of ~~get pushed out of your comfort zone.
That's where the transformation happens. And, ~~uh,~~ and I remember, yeah, that's-- I remember reading, what was it? "The Talent Factor" or s- some book about that, and it said, ~~you know,~~ it's not just about being born with talent, it's about fumbling. You have to fumble. It's part of growth. That's how we learn. So it's about like ~~kind of ~~making mistakes and failure and all of that, like kind of feeling a little, ~~you know, ~~moments ~~of, ~~of breakage, just like when y- with your muscle, when you strain your muscle and it doesn't do well.
And then... ~~Did, ~~[00:32:00] did you lose me?
ARIELE: No, I, ~~um-- ~~Did I go away? I,
MICHELLE: no, I hear you.
ARIELE: no, I just was writing. I didn't have a pen. I wanted to write down the name of that book, "The Talent Factor."
MICHELLE: Oh, yeah. Is it,~~ um... ~~Did I get the name right? Let me
ARIELE: I don't know. Is that a Joe Dispenza book or that's something
else?
MICHELLE: no. ~~Um,~~ "The Talent Code," I think that's what it is. And it was something about how, ~~um,~~ greatness isn't born, it's grown. Here's how. And, ~~uh,~~ and so that's the whole idea is just ~~kind of~~ like it's not, it's something that, that you have to fumble through.
And I think the, ~~you know, ~~all the people that succeed in life, ~~uh, ~~that's ~~kind of~~ like the idea is that they're okay with failure. I think ~~that~~ that's the key. It's okay to fail and then come back. ~~It's,~~ it's more the coming back. And, ~~um, ~~I'm telling you, ~~you know, ~~even on the fertility world, I've seen people go through this whole crazy journey, ~~you know.~~
And, ~~uh, ~~and but they know there's like this inner knowing, like I know that I'm meant to have a baby, like of my own. ~~And, ~~and we're talking people 10 years sometimes, and then somehow that happens.~~ I,~~ I don't know if you've ever [00:33:00] met, ~~um,~~ Lauren. ~~Um, ~~I don't know why I'm blanking. She has the, she's the yoga teacher.
Why am I blanking on her last name? ~~Um, ~~fertility yoga See, ~~this is, ~~this is the effects of social media and, or, ~~uh, ~~phones.
ARIELE: I know. You can look anything up immediately
MICHELLE: Yeah, and then you just forget. You don't use your own sonic yoga. I know that.
ARIELE: Oh, Sonic Yoga. I'm looking it up too. ~~I haven't,~~
MICHELLE: Lauren Hannah. Lauren Hannah.
ARIELE: Oh, no. Sonic
MICHELLE: she's, ~~uh, ~~her story's incredible, and she went through so much for so many years, and she kept meditating, and she kept seeing this, this feminine ener- like a girl
ARIELE: Uhum
MICHELLE: daughter.
And she-- And she's had readings and everybody said, ~~you know, ~~"Your girl's waiting for you." And ~~she,~~ she went through so much, ~~uh,~~ failed IVF, ~~um, ~~years of trying to conceive, went all the way to India to try even donor egg, and [00:34:00] that failed. Came back and said, "I need to come back to myself." And it was c- really coming back to the yin, like you were, you had mentioned before, like really coming back to herself.
And then she started to meditate and really allow herself to get into that state of her higher consciousness, ~~and,~~ and she kept feeling the girl, and the girl kept coming to her and feeling her. And at 46 she had, ~~um,~~ a healthy girl, ~~uh,~~ who's now going to college or about to go to college. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.
ARIELE: Yeah, it's wo- ~~I mean,~~ these bodies are just so miraculous, and ~~I,~~ I often say, I might have even said this to you before, but ~~like,~~ I think we know so much about them. Like I, I love science. I believe in science, all the things, but I just feel like science hasn't even begun to catch up with the magic of these bodies and what's possible and, ~~you know, ~~so
MICHELLE: and if we wait for science to prove it, we're gonna be, ~~um, you know, ~~there's gonna be so much untapped potential that we're just like, ~~"Well, ~~I need to prove it." It's almost like, ~~um,~~ when you're in a relationship, you're like,~~ "Well,~~ I need to know that you love me. You need to prove it." ~~Like, you know, ~~doesn't that take [00:35:00] away from the romantic essence of,~~ like,~~ life?
ARIELE: Yeah.~~ I mean,~~ that's one of the things I, I love about acupuncture is ~~like, it,~~ it, ~~you know, ~~the f- the first time I experienced it, I was like, "Whoa." ~~Like, ~~"Whoa." ~~Like,~~ you feel it. And even if~~ like, you know, ~~now they're like doing more and they've discovered like the interstitial layer, which we've kn- known about as, ~~you know,~~ for millennia.
MICHELLE: Like the fascia.
ARIELE: yeah. But it's like,~~ um,~~ yeah. ~~It's,~~ it's like I think when you f- when you... It's like sometimes you feel something and you know something, and if you have to have something prove ~~it, it, ~~it almost ~~like ~~takes away, ~~you know,~~ like people who feel their departed family members nearby energetically or, ~~you know, ~~like anything can be like, "Oh, that's superstition," or that's...
But I don't know. I feel ~~like ~~when you feel something powerful in your own body, it's like I don't need anyone ~~to,~~ to believe me, ~~you know,~~ believe that it worked.
MICHELLE: I had that happen, ~~um,~~ specifically with my patients and connecting with their spirit babies. ~~Um, ~~one of them, she knew it was a girl because the girl kept coming. She kept coming, and she knew it was a [00:36:00] girl, and she just knew. She w- ~~uh,~~ there was like no, ~~um, ~~no saying otherwise. ~~And,~~ and she would see, ~~um,~~ the name, and then she would see 444, her dad's, ~~um, ~~passing, and she would see these signs, and her daughter ended up being born on 4/4.
So it was just like s- like ~~crazy, ~~crazy. But she knew. Sh- it was a knowing, like there's no doubt, and that's the power of really connecting with that divine wisdom. It's ~~so, um,~~ it's so-- there's such certainty in that because there, ~~it, ~~it speaks to the fabric of your being when you get really in tune
ARIELE: Yeah. It's funny because when you were talking before, I was chuckling internally 'cause I've been
doing automatic writing since I was like 20 in college. It just, whenever I f- and I think it started of just feeling like in so much despair and~~ like~~ lost and not knowing what to do that I just ~~like ~~needed to almost ~~like ~~ha- ~~like~~ trick myself in a way of being like, "Everything will be okay. There's a ma-" ~~You know, ~~it was ~~kind of ~~like writing to myself.
But then ~~it, ~~it switched to being like [00:37:00] it doesn't ma- like maybe I'm making this all up. Like maybe I'm just making it up and it's all coming from me, but like maybe there's a part of me that's ~~like ~~tapped into, like if I'm a part of the all, then it's ~~like,~~ yeah, maybe I'm making it up, but that doesn't make it not true, ~~you know?~~
And it's ~~kind of like~~ been with me for decades, like the thing that's ~~like, like~~ yeah, I could be like it's just all made up, but ~~like ~~does that make it less real?
MICHELLE: ~~Right. ~~Yeah. And then sometimes don't you feel like, "I don't remember writing this," or like it was just something came, it like they, something came as you were reading it that you weren't even aware you were writing. That's at least what happens to me.
ARIELE: Yeah,~~ I read it,~~ I read it over. ~~Like, ~~I'll read it over and be like, "Oh yeah, that was really wise."
MICHELLE: Yeah. You're like, ~~"This is,~~ this is really good," I must say
ARIELE: I know. Actually, Elizabeth Gilbert started, ~~um,~~ doing that in her, ~~like,~~ Letters for Love. Have you seen that? She has people do,~~ like, ~~Letters for Lo- Letters from Love, I think it is, where she's ~~like... ~~And just reading what people, like hearing what people write,~~ it's like, ~~it's~~ like~~ imagine if love is [00:38:00] writing to you, ~~what~~
~~would, ~~
MICHELLE: I love that
ARIELE: And it's ~~like,~~ oh, they're so beautiful. So I do think we do tap into ~~the, the, ~~the divine, ~~you know?~~ Like we are one with it. We are part of it, so why wouldn't we be able to do that?
MICHELLE: 100%. And I think, ~~um,~~ I think the whole theme of this, which is so great 'cause I love to start conversations, whole theme really is ~~kind of ~~tapping, getting into that heart center where, ~~you know,~~ in a sense you have to have a level of trust in order to get to that heart center. And that heart center is very powerful for giving life.
It connects with our uterus. It really does nourish and nurture our uterus. It opens that creative center. ~~Um, ~~Joe Dispenza talks about that. He focuses a lot on the heart energy. ~~Um, well,~~ I guess if you do wanna kinda bridge science, HRT and also the heart-brain coherence with heart math, there is really like a measurable factor that connects with our heart energy, and our heart is extremely intelligent, and it has a much bigger, ~~uh, ~~what is it?
~~Uh,~~ not radio [00:39:00] frequency, ~~uh,~~ electromagnetic frequency than even our brain. So super, super important, and it's life-giving, and it can elevate consciousness ~~and,~~ and heal the world. I really do believe it.
ARIELE: I do too. I hope so.
MICHELLE: ~~Yeah~~
ARIELE: World could use some healing about now
MICHELLE: Yeah. So I think ~~that ~~that's what it is when you talked about activism, like really being in that joy and~~ like, you know,~~ that's the biggest activism.~~ You know,~~ it's almost as like saying somebody who, ~~you know, the~~ best revenge is to live a really good life and be really happy, be at your best. That's like the best.
~~And,~~ and so yeah, maybe we should all take that instead of trying to fight something ~~and,~~ and actually by doing that, you're making it stronger, you're feeding it, to really just like loving ourselves. ~~And, ~~and this could be even towards even the f- with the fertility journey, ~~you know, ~~all of the things that happen.
'Cause I don't know if you've seen this, but like there's phases. ~~You know,~~ you go through the fighting phase of what's happening, and then there's ~~a,~~ a moment of [00:40:00] surrender just because you can't keep sustaining the fight. And then there's a point where you ~~kind of ~~come around. Sometimes I'll ~~kind of~~ guide my patients and my clients towards meditation and getting quiet, and there is this sense of reconciling and self-love where you start to really feel gratitude for your body or the little wins.
And I do see that. I do see that with some patients ~~kind of ~~going through the different stages on their journey.
ARIELE: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, ~~can I, ~~can I love myself no matter what? ~~You know? Uh,~~ u-ultimately, the hope is still to have a baby, but, ~~like,~~ I think it's important sometimes to ask the question, ~~like, ~~can I still love myself and my life if that doesn't happen? ~~You know?~~ I feel like sometimes it's almost like we have to go to there to
MICHELLE: The condition.
ARIELE: Yeah.
MICHELLE: Yeah. Like unconditionally love ourselves.
ARIELE: Ja.
MICHELLE: Love that. This is so great. ~~Uh,~~ so ~~for,~~ for, first of all, you're so much fun to talk to. I really enjoy our conversations. I love how we kinda nerd out on like the spirituality and the de-~~ you~~
ARIELE: I love that we had no plan and [00:41:00] we're just like, "Let's just talk and we'll see where it goes."
MICHELLE: Yeah, it was perfect.
And, ~~uh,~~ so for people who... ~~Well,~~ first of all, by the way, she has these fabulous teas that she sells,
ARIELE: I'm checking one now
MICHELLE: and they're all about really supporting your womb. Talk to us about all the different teas and how people can find you.
ARIELE: ~~Well,~~ the company is called Wisdom of the Womb, so the website is Wisdom of the Womb online. ~~Um, ~~yeah, the teas ~~kind of~~ started when I had my, ~~um,~~ acupuncture wellness clinic when I was living on the East Coast, ~~um, ~~and I had relationships with all the reproductive endocrinologists on the tri-state area, and they would send their patients to me.
~~Um,~~ but there was always a little bit of, ~~like,~~ a snag because I wanted my patients to take these patent herbal formulas, ~~uh,~~ like pill forms, and the doctors were like, ~~"Well,~~ we don't know. We don't know. It doesn't work. Chinese herbs, it's so scary." And I was ~~kind of like, "Well, you know, ~~what if it was just like a tea, like an herbal tea that was like cinnamon and, ~~you know, like,~~ and a raspberry leaf?"
They're in, ~~you know. ~~So yeah, so I made these blends, ~~um,~~ [00:42:00] that were basically like mostly Western herbs, but also some Chinese herbs in there,~~ kind of ~~blended, blended them. ~~Um, ~~and they were ~~kind of like ~~approved by the reproductive endocrinologists who were like, ~~"Well,~~ okay." Like it's not-- Somehow they were more scared of pills even though there were some, ~~you know, ~~some of the same herbs.
~~Um,~~ and I, yeah, so I have different teas for each phase of the cycle. Some of them can be drank the whole cycle, like if you have, ~~um,~~ unexplained infertility or if you have endometriosis, you might choose one. If you have PCOS, you might choose this other combination. So they're all ~~kind of like~~ bundled, like how to take them or, ~~um...~~
And yeah, they've just-- When I moved to Colorado, I, ~~um, ~~was ~~kind of like ~~done with fertility, I thought. ~~Um, ~~and then I was still getting all of these referrals from the reproductive endocrinologist, so I was like, "I guess I'll just put my blends online and see how they do." And it just ~~kind of like~~ had a life of its own ~~and, ~~and took off.
~~So,~~ so yeah, it's ~~kind of~~ drinking one now, Bitches Brew tea for premenstrual.
MICHELLE: Yeah. I can't wait to get mine.
ARIELE: Yeah, I'm like, "Come in." ~~Uh-huh.~~ [00:43:00] It's
MICHELLE: ~~you know,~~ you know what they say,~~ like,~~ 'cause we're on the same cycle right now.
ARIELE: ~~Mm-hmm.~~
MICHELLE: it. ~~It,~~ it's a full moon cycle. That's the medicine women,
ARIELE: Yeah.
MICHELLE: Yeah, we're a little
ARIELE: shifted. I used to bleed on the, I used to bleed on the, ~~um,~~ new moon, and now it's the full moon, so things are shifting. But yeah. Yeah, ~~well, ~~thank you for having me on. ~~It's,~~ it's always fun to talk to you, and I always love how we, ~~like, ~~meander and then come back.
MICHELLE: Me too. And then also, ~~um, ~~how, besides the website also you have a fabulous Instagram
ARIELE: Yeah. ~~So, um, ~~I do have, ~~um, right,~~ I have a 12-week course. It's called the Fertile Mama Method. ~~Um,~~ inst- it's like a, ~~you know, ~~fertility and diving into the different cycle phases. And now what I feel most excited about is I've been ~~kind of, um, ~~in, I'm 47, and ~~kind of like~~ in this what comes after the, the summer creative, ~~you know, ~~full bloom of the mother season, 'cause I don't feel like I'm going into crone.
So it's this kind of middle autumn phase, which I'm calling the empress phase. It's from a tarot card that I pulled. ~~Um, ~~yeah, so really ~~kind of ~~working on that ~~midlife,~~ [00:44:00] midlife mystery. ~~Um,~~ so having a, a circle ~~of,~~ of meeting and of meetings, ~~um,~~ that came out weird, but yeah.
MICHELLE: Yeah. Awesome. I love it
ARIELE: to talk about midlife, and yeah, so that feels most ~~kind of ~~alive for me.
~~Uh,~~ but yeah, it's W- ~~uh, ~~Wisdom of the Womb or just my name, Ariel Myers on Instagram and Facebook, and yeah. Wisdom of the Womb is probably the easiest to find and spell, ~~so.~~
MICHELLE: Yeah. And, ~~um,~~ great, ~~uh,~~ Instagram. Love the post that you have on Wisdom of the Womb, right? It's, ~~uh, ~~wisdomofthewomb underscore, or is it
ARIELE: you know what? I don't even-- I think it's just Wisdom of the Womb, but
MICHELLE: But you could find it on the website
ARIELE: have to,~~ like,~~ look. Wisdom of the Womb online is the website. Also The Wisdom of the Womb ~~will, ~~will go there. So we couldn't get Wisdom of the Womb. It's, ~~like, ~~not available, which was
MICHELLE: Okay.
ARIELE: the reason The Wisdom of the Womb.
MICHELLE: Okay, got it.
ARIELE: ~~Mm-hmm.~~
MICHELLE: I'm the same. I have The Wholesome Lotus. So awesome. ~~Well, ~~thank you Ariel for coming on today. ~~Um, ~~and if anybody wants, I will have [00:45:00] all of the links in the episode notes so that you could 100% find it. And thank you so much. It's always a pleasure.
ARIELE: you so much. Yeah, this was delightful. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2: So that concludes today's episode. You can find all of the links mentioned on the episode notes. If you're enjoying these episodes, please take a moment to share and leave a review. Reviews mean everything to podcasters, and I really enjoy hearing from my listeners. You can find me on my website at www.michelleorbitz.com.
You could also reach out to me on Instagram, and I love getting DMs from my listeners. My handle is @thewholesomelotusfertility. I thank you so much for tuning in today, and I hope you have a beautiful [00:46:00] day.