Ep 384 Movement, Energy & Fertility: Why Belly Dancing Is More Than Just Dance
On today’s episode I am joined by Jennifer Sobel (@femininefireofficial), a professional belly dance instructor and creator of The Belly Dance Solution, to explore how movement can deeply support fertility, pelvic health, and overall well-being. With over 20 years of experience and a background in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Jennifer brings a unique perspective on how dance can be both healing and empowering.
In this episode, we dive into how belly dancing strengthens the pelvic floor, improves circulation, and supports reproductive health. We also explore the powerful mind-body connection, the role of awareness in healing, and how playful, feminine movement can regulate the nervous system and bring energy back into the body. This conversation is a beautiful reminder that healing doesn’t always have to feel like work, it can feel like joy, expression, and connection.
Key Takeaways:
Belly dancing strengthens the pelvic floor while promoting both contraction and relaxation
Movement increases blood flow and energy (Qi) to the reproductive organs
Awareness and intentional movement can shift both physical and emotional health
Nervous system regulation plays a key role in fertility and overall well-being
Playful, feminine movement can be a powerful and healing modality
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
Ready to discover what your body needs most on your fertility journey?
Take the personalized quiz inside The Wholesome Fertility Journey and get tailored resources to meet you exactly where you are:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/the-wholesome-fertility-journey
For more about my work and offerings, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com
Curious about ancient wisdom for fertility? Grab my book The Way of Fertility:
https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility
Join the Wholesome Fertility Facebook Group for free resources & community support:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/
Connect with me on social:
Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility
Facebook: The Wholesome Lotus
Disclaimer: Some of the links shared are affiliates but this is at no cost to you and can even get you discounted prices!
-
Speaker: [00:00:00] Episode number 3 84 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbit, and today on the podcast, I'm joined by Jennifer Sobel, a professional belly dancer instructor with more than 21 years of experience and the creator of the Belly Dance Solution.
A research back program that has helped over 30,000 women address bladder leaking through targeted belly dance movements. Jennifer also has a master's in traditional Chinese medicine, which makes this conversation especially fun because we get to explore movement, energy, pelvic health, and fertility through a unique lens.
In this episode, we talk about how belly dancing can support not only the pelvic floor, but also circulation posture, nervous system regulation, and overall reproductive health. We also dive into the deeper mind body [00:01:00] connection, how movement brings awareness and life force back into the body, and why practices that feel playful and feminine can.
Also be profoundly healing. This is such a beautiful conversation about reconnecting with your body, your energy, and your power in a way that feels joyful and freeing. So be sure to stay tuned.
Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility journey.
Michelle: Welcome to the podcast, Jennifer.
Jennifer: Thank you so much for having me.
Michelle: I'm so excited to have you. love belly dancing. We're gonna be talking about really how that can support fertility and also like the movement and [00:02:00] the energy in the body. So before we get started, I'd love for you to share your origin story, which I know is, somewhat similar to mine.
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. well, it's interesting because my story is one of those kind of stories where when you're in your life, you don't see how it's all gonna come together. But then when you look back, you see the through line. That's how my origin story is. So I actually began my professional career in Chinese medicine.
and so I was an acupuncturist for about five years, and at the same time that I started practicing acupuncture, I started doing belly dance. Within two years I was doing it professionally and I just fell in love with it and it became my passion. And so, you know, during the day I am doing acupuncture at [00:03:00] night, doing belly dancing, and it just, I just wanted to belly dance all the time.
It's not that I didn't like, like acupuncture, but I felt like my calling was in belly dance. And in movement. And so it took me a long time to stop practicing acupuncture because as you know, it's, many years of schooling. It's a huge commitment. It's a lot of time and energy and money, and so it was hard to let that go, but I thought, you know what?
This really feels like my path. So I. After I, stopped practicing acupuncture, I started going more into the fitness realm and I became a personal trainer. And I did that for about four years at the same time that I'm continuing to perform and teach. And I was just trying to figure out like, how can I do this full-time?
How can I make my passion into a [00:04:00] full-time business? And in 2016, I launched a digital marketing business. And so I learned the marketing side of things and in 20, 19 or something like that, I thought, you know what? I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna make a product, a digital product, a course for belly dancing, but what should it be?
You know, it can't be super general. So I was at the gym and I was on the treadmill, and a commercial came on for a bladder leaking drug.
Michelle: Hmm.
Jennifer: in that moment, something connected. And I remembered an incident that had occurred probably three years prior to that. One of my belly dance students came up to me after class and she was really excited and happy and she said, I have something to tell you.
And I was like, what? And she said, well, since I've been belly dancing, I don't have bladder leaking anymore. And so in that moment, I [00:05:00] put those two things together and I thought, Hmm, I wonder if there's something to this. Like I wonder if I can help more women with this. And then I did my research and I was shocked to find out that this is one of the most common things that women will have in their lifetime, and that it's one in three women will have bladder leaking at some point in their life, whether it's.
You know, commonly after having children or as they get older, start entering perimenopause, menopause. And I thought, you know what, let me, let me see if there, there's some interest in that. And I tested the idea with just a free video to a belly dance thing, and so many people were interested and I thought, okay, well let me really analyze what, what belly dance movements do I think are most powerful for strengthening the pelvic floor.
And then I remembered, you know, also. I've researched this before and a lot of people believe that belly dance actually originated as a dance to help [00:06:00] women prepare for and recover from childbirth because it naturally does strengthen the pelvic floor. And so then I put my program together, the Belly Dance Solution, teaching the movements that I think are most powerful for strengthening the pelvic floor, but also just.
Other movements that get women into the, the fun and the flow of belly dancing. And since 2020 I've been, continuing to create more and more belly dance programs and I've, you know, had over 30,000 women join my Belly Dance Solution program. And it's just helped so many women to relieve or sometimes even completely eliminate their bladder leaking and something they've been dealing with for years.
And I think that. What's so interesting about this problem is that it's probably one of the most common things that women experience, but it's also probably one of the most shameful and one of the most secret things because it is connected to so [00:07:00] much embarrassment and shame. And so women don't find the resources that they need to help them because they sometimes don't even tell their best friends.
Michelle: Yeah.
for sure. And as far as, one of the things I like about belly dancing is it does use the area, you know, that second chakra womb area. so I'm sure that it does more than just. Strengthen the pelvic floor, but it can also get more blood flow to the uterus. To the pelvis and really support like that fertility and reproductive health.
And, because one of the things that I had, we, we had talked in the pre-talk I've learned is Kundalini yoga. Which also really works on that, that energetics of your chakras and, and really kind of getting those energy centers moving. and so that's, that was something that actually found intriguing about this.
'cause I know that this is like the focus, but. There's [00:08:00] probably so much more happening. So as far as that goes, and those energy meridians, knowing that you understand, TCM and also that lower Dante, which is right.
below the belly button, and that kind of like energy center that we have, which is very, very strong.
It's a very strong, powerful area. what are your, findings or thoughts about that?
Jennifer: that is, it's such an interesting topic. and actually that kind of brings me for full circle to, you know, for a long time I was like, well, why did, why did, I mean, I went into Chinese medicine because I love it and I think it's so interesting in such a. A wise way to guide how you live, but I think what drew me to it ultimately is that I'm interested in healing modalities and I think that belly dance is one of those healing modalities in particular for women's bodies, and I am interested more [00:09:00] in that healing power.
More than I am with the technique. And I mean, I teach technique in my programs enough so that you feel confident doing the movement, but to me that's not the highest thing. It's that this dance is powerful at helping women to heal and going back to the energy and, and that being a powerful energy center.
It absolutely is. And so many of the movements that we do in belly dance just really promotes circulation in that area, in the pelvis and the hips, in that lower Dian. And so you're getting that energy, the blood and the energy moving. But also, you know, I think there's something incredibly powerful about where you put your consciousness.
Michelle: Yes, I was gonna say that I was thinking the same exact thing,
Jennifer: You know, and when you put your consciousness in that area, when normally there's [00:10:00] not at all, or maybe you have a consciousness there that's connected to trauma or anxiety or fear, but when you bring your consciousness into that area from a power place and that you do have power and control over your body, something incredibly wonderful happens.
Michelle: You know, and that's backed by research because people who just think about exercising, they're just, their mind is focused on it Even if they're sitting still, they just see themselves doing it. Their muscles change. Their body responds, the physiology responds to our thoughts. So, so this is no longer woo to anybody who
Jennifer: you're right. It's
Michelle: it's just, it's no longer woo.
It's true. It's, it's, It's not woo. it's true.
Jennifer: That's such a great one. I would be a great teacher. I think you should make that.
Michelle: That's my new program. [00:11:00]
Jennifer: I think we have a new side business for you, Michelle,
Michelle: totally. so
Jennifer: so speaking from a marketer as well. So like I like it.
Michelle: I just downloaded that by the way. I get some very, humorous spirit guides talking to me sometimes.
Jennifer: Love that
Michelle: So, so, and laughter's healthy too, by the way. And contagious. But Yeah. I mean all of this stuff is, is backed by science. As you were telling me this, and I, I was thinking to myself like, I'm just picturing like. Somebody working really hard or putting their attention to movement just in one particular area.
'cause it is in a sense you're like, to correct me if I'm wrong, you're, you're keeping other parts more static and you're moving the pelvic region so that you're, you have to focus [00:12:00] on that. It like, it it for like the movement itself forces you to move your energy and your thoughts to that area. And that's the area really of our reproduction and creativity.
Jennifer: Oh yes. Creativity like and, and creativity. You know, I think a lot of times when people think about creativity, they think about, oh, they're creating art or something like that, but your life is art.
Michelle: Yep,
Jennifer: to create anything you want in your life. Not a painting only, you know, but to create your life as you, as you want to.
And yeah, it's like, it's like a type of Qigong, if you will.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And, and so that's the thing where, you know, there's so many exercises or things that we sort of think, oh, that's just like a pretty dance. No, no, no. It's way more, it's way more. and then when you're talking about healing, my thought was like, it's not, you're not just healing physically, you're healing mentally.
We know. [00:13:00] We were trained to understand really like the connections of our body, our organs, our emotions, our spirit. it's all one thing. There's no sections of it. It all comes together. So movement. I find is incredibly underestimated, super powerful, and it's one of the ways that now therapy is moving, therapy is moving towards somatic exercises and somatic therapy because it used to be that we used to just talk a lot about our, you know, conditions or traumas or, and then actually getting into the body is what seems to really turn that key to release us.
Jennifer: Oh, it's so, it's so true. And I, I had this epiphany a couple weeks ago. I was doing one of these, meditations on insight timer around, Nervous system, calming the nervous system strategies. And I had this epiphany [00:14:00] because we think that, we have certain thoughts and that creates a problem in our nervous system.
But when our nervous system is out of balance, that's what creates the thoughts.
Michelle: Mm-hmm. It's bidirectional.
Jennifer: the stress. It's, it's, it's actually the stress in your body and your nervous system that's making you think a certain way. If you can calm your body down, you'll have different thoughts
Michelle: It's fascinating. Yeah. There's, there's research also that like, Your nervous system and also how you feel mentally impacts your gut microbiome and vice versa. If your gut microbiome's off, it can impact your mind. So it's this incredible bidirectional communication that even, even through just meditation, they're finding that that can impact your microbiome. So it's really fascinating. So like, yeah, so it would totally make sense that if your body.
felt more at ease, [00:15:00] more release, and more free, your mind's gonna feel more free. And we know in Chinese medicine, like, you know, you talk about like blood deficiency that can impact anxiety. People don't realize, well, you may not be just like anxious for no reason.
It's because your, your heart's not getting the blood it. needs in order to feel more calm and it ease. So it's wild how. People don't realize like the role your body plays in your mind.
Jennifer: right. Yeah, and I mean, it's something that we've, So many people, so easily neglect because we give so much. We give all importance to our mind,
Michelle: Yeah.
Jennifer: we forget about the wisdom of our body, the healing power of our body, and how that can heal our mind.
Michelle: Yeah, totally. And how our mind impacts our body. it's kinda like this whole like, it's like a circle.
Jennifer: Yeah, totally.
Michelle: so how, like what types of movements, obviously belly dancing, I think everybody can kind of like imagine what [00:16:00] it's like, when they see. Movies and videos, but explain in more detail like really the muscles people are using, how that impacts the body a little differently than other types of movements.
Jennifer: Well, one of the cool things about belly dance is that it's non impact. So,
Michelle: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jennifer: low impact. I don't know if anything's no impact. so it's very easy on the body. It's very easy on the joints. and I think, you know, because it's called belly dance. People think it's all about just the, the torso, the core, the belly.
But it's not, it's really a total body workout. You use your arms a lot, you use your legs a lot, your glutes, your glutes that are often totally, what's the word? ignored and asleep for most people because we sit so much, which creates so much imbalance in our bodies. so yeah, it works your entire body.
But yeah, there is a, a big core focus [00:17:00] because the core is the connection between the upper body and the lower body, and it is. Often a dance of isolation. When you're moving one part of the body, you're not moving the other part of the body, but you work your core from all angles, which is really unusual, with most exercises because you're only moving in maybe one or two planes of motion.
But in belly dance, you're moving in all planes of motion. And there's also two phases to the movement. You have a phase where you're contracting and where you're relaxing, which makes it more beneficial than Kegels, or I would say less likely to create. Hypertenicity too much tightness because you're also releasing, every time you do a movement, you contract and then you fully relax.
And so it builds that relaxation [00:18:00] phase into your body instead of just hold, hold, hold, hold. Which is what we do most of the day anyways. 'cause we're stressed.
Michelle: Yeah, we don't realize like it's unconscious, but that, that type of technique is actually a relaxation technique that a lot of people do where you tighten areas and then you release and it gets more blood flow and, and you know, it calms the muscles around it. 'cause you're, you are actually controlling the contractions.
Jennifer: Right. Very interesting. Yeah, it's very
Michelle: Yeah. And I.
know that there's some research around the benefits of belly dancing besides the fact that, you know, it helps with a bladder. What other research have you seen?
Jennifer: I don't know that I've seen any published research, other than the bladder leaking, which was in the Journal of Physical Therapy Science,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: where they specifically studied belly dance for strengthening the pelvic floor and [00:19:00] found it to be effective for that. I haven't seen any other. Studies published in medical journals, but I mean, I'm not surprised.
It's probably not something that most people would, would invest in studying. I wish there would be, if there's anybody out there, I would love to put something together. because I do think that there, you know, could be different ways to explore that and,
Michelle: But it's all interconnected. I'm gonna say, you know, if it's helping the pelvic floor, it's helping other things.
Jennifer: yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just also the, the hips and the hip stabilizers is very important. I mean, I've been doing this professionally for over 20 years, and when I'm teaching a class, I still feel burn, you know, like I still feel those muscles working. it's also good with your balance.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: your posture, which is so important.
it just brings so much awareness to your posture and also [00:20:00] strengthens the muscles that create good posture. but again, you know, it goes back to what we were saying before, that awareness, awareness changes everything. It's the
Michelle: It really does. Yeah. I feel like awareness brings more life force into your body. I feel like one of this is kind of my theory is that one of the issues that our bodies have is it's sort of like a lack of, intelligent awareness because you literally can leave your body and you sort of create a, a void.
In certain areas, which makes sense with Chinese medicine, how life force vitality chi, should be really flooding every part of our bodies in order to really create vitality. And then sometimes we have areas that don't have that as much, whether it's blocked or, just pretty much awareness is, is taken out of it.
When you're in meditation, even if you have areas where you're feel like I I'll literally feel. I tend [00:21:00] to hold, it's kind of like a liver cheese stagnation pattern. upper shoulder pain, especially if I'm working on a lot on my computer and I'm really hyper-focused, I, I'll tighten without realizing it.
and when I do meditations, I'll put my focus on that. area and I literally feel it like with my mind, releasing, releasing, releasing. And so my thought is, is if you don't have a guard in your house. Other things can come in. And so I, when you're bringing your attention and focus to your body, you're actually preventing a lot of issues from happening.
And I, it's my theory, it's a thought, it's, it was a download. It was a, yeah.
Jennifer: I love that. I think that makes so much sense. So much sense. And like you were saying in the, you know, in in, in our modern society, we are vacant a lot of times. You know, we're engaging with whether it's our work or social media, and we aren't there. We're not present. Our consciousness [00:22:00] is not there, and stress can make us leave our bodies.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: I, I think that's a really fascinating, theory point. I think it makes a lot of sense.
Michelle: Which kind of, in that sense might be why it's, you know, research shows that meditation and kind of doing things that make you more present actually does increase your lifespan and improves your vitality and your health, you know, and that is one of the ways it works, is really bringing us to be in the present moment.
And I feel like when you're here. Your consciousness is here, your chi is here, everything comes here to the same spot. And that's that presence. It's interesting 'cause you were talking about Sicily, how in Europe people are a lot more present and you can feel that vitality when you're present, even when you're present in a conversation, you feel a lot more alive.
Jennifer: Oh,
Michelle: Versus if you're like on your phone, somebody's talking to you, you're like here and there. You're scattered, scattered energy. It just doesn't, it doesn't function [00:23:00] like whole.
Jennifer: I love that. I love that. Yeah. So then our energy is totally dissipated in
Michelle: Yeah. But when you're moving, like in me, belly dancing, you have to be conscious.
Jennifer: Yeah, and I mean, it's like, I think if you take a walk or you go for a run, it's very easy to still be in your mind. You know, you can still be in that hamster wheel, but when you're doing something like belly dance that requires you to, I feel this way actually when I do strength training, like you've got to be 100% present you, 'cause you're also like, oh, how do I do this move?
And, and it brings you. Like immediately into your body, you are not in that dialogue anymore. And that in itself is healing because we need to be able to get out of that internal mental loop that we're in all the time
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: to be healthy.
Michelle: It's like that flow state. It really is. you know, and, and that flow state where they [00:24:00] say it's like a mind flow state where a lot of athletes get to, we understand it from a different perspective. 'cause of, of how we're trained. That flow state is really kind of like the qi life force moving unimpeded.
Like really, really centered. Yeah.
Jennifer: I love that. I love how you bring in the Chinese medicine in these very practical, present ways. And that's what's so beautiful about this medicine is it was created thousands of years ago, but it's still so relevant and can be applied to just our day-to-day lives here and now.
Michelle: I think 'cause they were so right on and, and one of the reasons why I think they were so right on is because they listened. They listened to nature, they watch it. They really learn from what already is. They're not making their own new, their own reality. They're just receiving and, and perceiving what already is, which is kind of the yin and the yang and how things really do work, you know, as [00:25:00] far as living things here on earth.
Jennifer: Right. Yes. And it just that yin yang theory can be applied to everything.
Michelle: Yeah. And then I think to myself, you know, with belly dancing, kind of similar to kundin yoga, like it works on that, that spiral, that kind of energy With this, you know, the spiral, you could see the Fibonacci sequence. We have that in our bodies. things kind of work in spirals. Even the yin and yang works kind of in spirals.
It kind of moves into each other. So I, I think about that. I wonder, it would be really nice if. If there was more research on really like how that energy, you know, through the spine
Jennifer: Mm-hmm.
Michelle: is really opening and kind of, opening that like first, second chakra, bringing energy up Through the spine into the body. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah. And I mean, as you mentioned that when you're talking about shapes and the spirals, that is another interesting aspect to belly dance is that a lot of those [00:26:00] movements are. Like, you know, sacred geometry, you know, we have a lot of these waves, you know, the snake, the undulation movements, the figure aids, the infinity, and you're literally making those shapes with your body.
And, you know, one of the most powerful things, I did a YouTube video on it recently. you know, this whole somatic shaking
Michelle: No, I'm just shaking in general, like just to release the energy kind of.
Jennifer: because like, animals do this naturally when they're like some, they
Michelle: If if there's if you get scared, if you get scared or if a car comes in front of you or something like that, like, the best thing to do is to Shake so that you don't hold onto that.
Jennifer: Yeah. So it's like a technique that they have in somatic therapy is called somatic shaking. And you just shake different parts of your body to, reset your nervous system. And shimmies, we do shimmies and belly dance and shimmies are a wonderful way to do that. Somatic shaking. And from a [00:27:00] Chinese medicine perspective.
Moving that chii, it's like moving that cheese stagnation. 'cause you're just moving that energy all through your body, through that shimmy and it feels so good. I shimmy every day. 'cause it is just fun. It is just, yeah, it's just fun.
Michelle: It is, it brings us back to when we were kids and like we wanted to just move. And I I, you look at like, kids, kids are actually such a good example of like what you should be doing, like belly breath and, you know, movement constantly. Like not sitting still for too long and like if you, as we're getting older, we get more stagnated 'cause we're sitting all day.
We we, our life and even driving all day, commuting, all of those things over time can stagnate our energy. And that's not even to talk about like the stress aspect of it as well.
Jennifer: Oh, that's such a good point about kids, you know, like looking at what they're doing because yeah, they wouldn't be able to sit still. And [00:28:00] we're, I can sit, you know, for like you're saying, for hours at my Compu computer and be like, oh my gosh. You know, but it's, so, it's one of the worst things for our body, is this constant sitting.
And it's also not, it's also a big reason why the pelvic floor has dysfunction is from sitting all the time.
Michelle: And that is, ladies listening, that impacts your fertility as well. It's not just, you know, the pelvic floor, that whole area. Everything's connected. There's fascia that connects all of it. It's all part of the same thing. There's not like, it's not pieces. So if one piece is out of balance, the whole thing's outta balance.
Jennifer: Right, right. Yeah. And there's a connection between your pelvic floor and your diaphragm.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: And so when you move your, your breathing, you can breathe more rhythmically, you can connect your breath to the movements. Just movement alone just relieves stress. [00:29:00] You know, I think we've, in our modern world, we think of movement as exercise, like it's gotta be exercise or working out.
But movement is just pleasure. It's fun to just move your body.
Michelle: It's experience.
Jennifer: it's play what? You know, we lost that association with movement as being play and exploration. Like kids, like you said, that's how they do.
Michelle: It's like freedom in our bodies.
Jennifer: It's freedom in our bodies. Like it's just, it's play exploration. You get curious,
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: oh look, cool, look at, look at how I can move this. I didn't know I could do that. That's fun.
Michelle: And a relief. Stress it. It gives you a time, like a moment, a break from everything else just to release all of that built up energy.
Jennifer: And if you shimmy for five minutes, you walk, not, not even five minutes, two minutes, you will feel that
Michelle: I like shaking in general. Like [00:30:00] I, I like to shake my body when I wake up in the morning 'cause it, it feels like my, my body's like more free. 'cause you get stagnated overnight. Like your, your water stagnates, everything. Like a lot of great things happen when you're sleeping, but your body gets a little more stiff as you're waking up.
So it's a great way to like get the energy moving, cleaning, and then also the detoxification.
Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.
Michelle: Awesome. So if people are interested in looking into your program and also learning more, from you, how can they find you?
Jennifer: Yeah. so my program for, belly Dance for strengthening the pelvic floor is, the belly dance solution.com, and I'm also on Facebook at the Belly Dance Solution. I am also on there as. Feminine Fire is my
Michelle: I love that.
Jennifer: I'm on, YouTube at Feminine Fire. So, those are the main ways to find me.
Michelle: Awesome. And I'll have all of the [00:31:00] links in the episode notes for anybody who wants to find it. So Jennifer, this is a great conversation.
Jennifer: you so
Michelle: I had a lot of fun talking to you about this and it was cool 'cause we had, we have the Same.
we have a similar language and understanding how things work as far as our body.
So that was kind of cool.
Jennifer: It was fun. Thank you so much for having me.
Michelle: It's a pleasure.