EP 393 The Iron Myth: What Every Woman Trying to Conceive Needs to Know with Samantha Chandler
In this episode, Michelle sits down with Women’s Wellness Coach Samantha Chandler for a conversation that may completely shift the way you think about iron, blood loss, and your body’s wisdom. If you’ve been told you have low iron or low ferritin, especially while trying to conceive or during pregnancy, this episode offers a perspective that is rarely shared in mainstream care.
Samantha walks us through how iron actually moves in the body, why bloodwork can be misleading, and why so many women are taking iron supplements without truly absorbing them. She explains the role of copper, vitamin A in the form of retinol, and ceruloplasmin in regulating iron, and why the body recycles iron rather than needing more of it from supplements. We also explore how heavy periods, postpartum hemorrhage, fatigue, hair loss, and even thyroid issues can all be connected to iron not moving properly through the system.
This conversation is a beautiful reminder that the body is intelligent, that symptoms are messages, and that real healing often comes from supporting the body’s natural rhythms rather than overriding them.
Key Takeaways:
• Why low iron on bloodwork does not always mean the body is actually low in iron
• How copper, ceruloplasmin, and vitamin A in the form of retinol work together to move iron through the body
• Why iron-fortified foods and iron supplements can interfere with the body’s natural ability to recycle iron
• The role of blood loss as one of the body’s primary ways of regulating iron
• How heavy periods, hair changes, fatigue, anxiety, and skin issues can all point back to iron dysregulation
• Why whole food sources like beef liver, cod liver oil, and adrenal cocktails support the body better than synthetic supplements
• A grounding reminder that the body is always communicating, and symptoms are messengers, not malfunctions
Guest Bio:
Samantha Chandler, also known as Wellness & Womb, is a Women’s Wellness Coach who focuses on iron’s movement in the body. Many women are told they are low in iron, but as Samantha teaches, low iron in the blood does not mean iron is low in the body. She coaches clients, health providers, and doctors on how iron actually moves so they can get to the root of the issues women are experiencing in their health. Samantha has worked with over one hundred women and consistently sees transformative results, all without iron supplements or iron infusions.
Connect with Samantha:
Website: wellnessandwomb.com
Instagram: @wellnesswomb_
TikTok: @wellnessandwomb
YouTube: @wellnesswomb_
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Episode number 393 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome back to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbits, and today's conversation is one I think every woman needs to hear, especially if you've been told you're low in iron or anemic. My guest today is Samantha Chandler, also known as Wellness and Womb.
She's a woman's wellness coach who specializes in iron movement in the body, and what she shares in this episode may completely shift the way you think about your blood work, your cycles, and your body's intelligence. Samantha walks us through how iron actually moves in the body, why so many women are taking iron supplements without truly absorbing them, and the surprising role that copper, vitamin A, and whole foods play in keeping iron flowing properly.
We talk about heavy periods, fatigue, hair loss, thyroid concerns, and how all of [00:01:00] these connect back to iron not moving the way it's meant to. What I love most about this conversation is that it returns us to a much needed truth. Your body isn't broken. It's communicating. And once we really understand the language it's speaking and its symptoms, real healing becomes possible.
Before we begin, a quick note. This episode is for educational and informational purposes only. It's not intended as medical advice. Please always consult with your doctor or qualified healthcare provider before making any changes to your health, supplements, or fertility care. So let's dive in
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Michelle: [00:02:00] Welcome to the podcast, Samantha.
Samantha: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to get to chat with you.
Michelle: Yeah, me too. So this is your first time, and I always ask an origin story on how you got into the work that you're doing.
Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. So I was pregnant. I was told that I was anemic. I took iron supplements in the last trimester or the last month of the pregnancy, sorry. And I think, like many women are led to believe that we do this to help prevent a hemorrhage. And there was so much blood that I had lost in the birthing pool that I couldn't actually see the bottom.
It was just pitch black. And I was really curious after that because I thought, well, if I was taking iron supplements, then isn't that meant to prevent that from happening? Like, why is, why is this the case? And my sister had heard Morley Robbins on a podcast, and she's like: "You have got to [00:03:00] listen to him.
It's gonna answer all of your iron questions." Because that was something I was really confused about was why are so many women low in iron when they're pregnant? Is it something that we're measuring wrong? Is it something that in the foods that we're eating? I was really confused around that. And so, after hearing him speak, that really sparked my interest in the whole topic.
Michelle: So interesting, and it actually is such a good question because I think that what I've noticed when I was looking into you is that you talk about how people actually have a lot of iron circulating in their system, and we're taking so much iron trying to avoid iron deficiency. And I think it's a real mystery, like even doctors don't really realize, like, how it doesn't necessarily get absorbed with the ones that we're taking.
So I wanna break that down, 'cause I think that people listening to this are like, "Okay, well, how does it work and what's going on?" And so, if we can actually just break down the whole [00:04:00] myth the myth around it and really how it actually gets absorbed in the body.
Samantha: Sure, yeah. So this narrative that we just need to consume more and open our mouths and gobble down as much iron as possible is very confusing to me because iron is a heavy metal. So just like we wouldn't go and start taking, say, aluminum or mer-mercury as a supplement, I find it very confusing as to why we're being pushed to consume iron.
We need 25 milligrams of iron a day, and we Actually only need 1% or one milligram from foods. So our body recycles iron. So this, the narrative around making sure that we're consuming more, that we're focusing on its absorption isn't telling us the whole story because our bodies are designed to recycle it.
Part of the issue is that our food systems have become fortified with iron, and they've been that way since 1941, and that interrupts how our body [00:05:00] recycles iron in the body. So when we think of how iron moves is first of all, our blood work is not always completely accurate, so it can be In the tissues, and that's part of the issue is that the narrative around ferritin too is pretty confusing because it wasn't until, I believe, 1972, that this focus on ferritin. being the storage of iron is this big push.
You know, if your ferritin's below 30, then you're deficient in iron, and that's just simply not the case because there's another vehicle essentially that iron will go into called hemosiderin, and it's not all stored in iron. So in order to move iron, so I like to talk about... Pardon?
Michelle: In ferritin you meant it's not all stored in...
Samantha: that's right.
That's right. Yeah, So it'll go to hemosiderin. So when we're thinking of how iron moves, I like to think of a bus, and there is this baby blue bus. The color is very, very important, and a lot of the time we don't think of the significance of color. But [00:06:00] if we were to look at a package of cigarettes, how is it that that warning label resonates with us that we shouldn't smoke?
Because we can't touch it, we can't taste it, we can't smell it, but we're looking at two sets of lungs, one that lacks color and is typically dark, and then one that's a normal set of lungs. We know that our organs need color in order for them to function properly. We just don't think about it that way.
And so color is very important. Iron is what rusts, and that's part of the issue. So we think of this baby blue bus. It's called ceruloplasmin, and it is a master antioxidant in the body. This is what copper needs to be bound to in order to function properly. So we have a bus, we have copper. Copper is like the doorman.
He's gonna let iron on and off. And then we also have the master of keys, which is vitamin A in the form of retinol, and he's gonna make sure that copper gets locked to that bus in order to function optimally. When we're thinking of how iron moves, this isn't the bus that [00:07:00] iron then gets onto and then moves iron through the body.
I don't know if you've seen Zootopia, but there's a scene at the beginning of it where the subway train pulls up, and then there's all these different sized animals that get off, and that's essentially what we're talking about, where once this series of events can happen, then there's all of these different doors that open in the body for iron to move and be regulated effectively.
So- That is we don't need to be forcing more iron to be absorbed. We only need a small amount. The issue really comes down to regulating iron so that it can move effectively and get into the blood where we want it to be.
Michelle: So it sounds like there are, it's, it needs to be a formula or a symphony of different types of elements and minerals and other metals like copper, in order for the body to absorb it correctly.
Samantha: That's right. That's right, 'cause our big issue now is that a lot of us have iron in us, we just don't think of it that way. One of my clients, [00:08:00] she was borderline anemic, took iron supplements on and off for years and years, and she started donating blood. And when she started donating blood, she went with a hemoglobin of 125 or 12.5, depending on what unit everybody uses.
And as she's consistently donated over the last year, her hemoglobin is now at 156 or 15.6. And it's that when we start to lose blood, that's part of why a lot of women will have heavy periods, is because the body's trying to pull out the ex- excess iron produce a hormone that tells your body to release more iron from the tissues.
And as we continue to do that, then that hormone gets produced. We start pulling out more of that excess iron. Some of that copper can free up. A lot of the stress really, it comes out of the body, and it's really helpful. So it is a, a process that needs to happen. And part of the issue is, is we're being told to avoid vitamin A when we're pregnant.
We're not-- We don't have access to copper like we used to [00:09:00] anymore. There was a study that was done, and they looked at the amount of nutrients that have been depleted in the soil in North America, and it's at 85%, which is the most in the world. That's just mind-boggling to me that we have 15% of the minerals in our soil left.
So there's a, a whole bunch of different things that we're coming up against that can interfere with this process without us really realizing it.
Michelle: That's so interesting. I think about, you know, I was in India and we used to I remember I, I did a Panchakarma and the doctor there had a container that was copper, and they would leave, I think it was even by our beds, they would leave us water overnight sitting in that copper container, and then in the morning they would have us drink it.
So it was the first thing that we would drink really to get into our body, but to have that copper, and it was incredibly important. They put a lot of emphasis on it. But then if you think about how beef liver we [00:10:00] often suggest has natural vitamin A, it has kind of like the natural formula for the, the iron to be absorbed correctly.
Samantha: That's right. It does. It, it cured anemia in 1934. So It's got all of these different nutrients. It's much smarter than I am. I don't, I don't understand it at its complexity, but I know that it's
Michelle: of nature.
Samantha: Yeah.
exactly. You know, when we go with things that are naturally occurring, we're really not going to go wrong because that's where a huge part of these issues come in, when we think that we can just cherry-pick these different nutrients and add them together and that we're gonna come up with this formula that the body needs, when really our body already knows what it needs, and it's gonna come from natural sources.
Michelle: So fascinating. And so, somebody comes in and says, "I have very low ferritin." You're saying that it, it's not necessarily stored in ferritin, it's stored in something else you had mentioned
Samantha: That's right, [00:11:00] hemosiderin.
Michelle: with. Hemosiderin, and that's another aspect of the blood?
Samantha: That's ri- that's right. So, if we're not gonna have it tested on a blood marker, it requires a needle biopsy or expensive testing to tell where it is. But I like to think of it like a water fountain. So if you think of how iron is being stored, it's this water fountain that we don't want turned on. So at the first, you know, coming out of the spout, we're gonna have hemoglobin right at the very top.
And when our hemoglobin deviates from 13 or 130 and then it starts to go to ferritin, we might have an overflow coming out of ferritin. So, you know, people whose ferritin is above 50, a lot of the time we're told that, you know, you have to have a ferritin above 50 in order to have hair growth. I was actually going to do a topic on it today, but then I was like, "I need to do my hair before I open that can of worms on social media and then in-invite that kind of target on my back."
But it can go into ferritin and spill out of ferritin, [00:12:00] or it can end up where we have low ferritin and it's kind of like these little holes that are in that base, and then it spills into hemosiderin 'cause hemosiderin can hold way more iron than the, the other ones. And so if we think of it like that, then it's kind of like a VHS tape and rewind that we wanna come out.
We wanna pull it out of hemosiderin, we want it to go back into ferritin, and then we want it to get into hemoglobin so that way we can lose blood and have it come out of the body. That's ideally the long-term goal.
Michelle: And so, how does that happen? By having other minerals that you were saying in order to like, it was... Or even taking beef liver so that you're able to really process it correctly? And so what ultimately is a correct process? What does that look like? I know you had mentioned it before, but just to kind of like, 'cause it's probably the first time people are hearing it.
Samantha: Yes. So I would say it's gonna depend for everybody. One of the first places I like to start is with an adrenal cocktail. So, looking at [00:13:00] sodium, potassium, and whole food vitamin C. Canada, it's really hard to get your hands on a good quality adrenal cocktail, so I have formulated one, but they're labeled as electrolytes just because of the regulations in Canada.
So, that's gonna help support the adrenal glands. That's gonna help support some of the stress that our body's been under. We want-- I mean, we're mainly made up of fluid, so we want that. Our-- We need sodium, we need potassium. We wanna get that moving in the body, and it's really, really important. And the whole food vitamin C helps support the adrenal glands because that's What they run on.
So things like that can be really beneficial. Looking at magnesium, the type? of magnesium is really important, too. Starting off with just, like... So we want a sodi- or not sodium. I still have the adrenal cocktail on my mind. We want magnesium bisglycinate. If we're taking magnesium citrate as a way, that's just irritating the gut lining, so we don't wanna do that.
But we can use our skin as a way to help us absorb things, so we don't have to just rely on supplements. We can take Epsom salt [00:14:00] baths. We can apply magnesium topically on the feet to help promote sleep at night, different things like that and alleviate some of the pressure off of the digestive tract.
Looking at cod liver oil. Cod liver oil is so important, but the one that we're looking at matters. So I have a lot of clients who will message me and say, "You know, I've changed my mind. I wanna try this brand." And that's okay, but I won't stand behind those other ones because I look into how they're manufactured.
I look into whether or not they're adding the ingredients back in synthetically, whether or not they've processed them at a high temperature. There's a whole bunch of things I think that are important concerns with cod liver oil.
Michelle: What which ones do you recommend, if you don't mind me asking?
Samantha: no, not at all. So Rosita is like the Cadillac. That one is one of my favorites.
I really like Jigsaw. Jigsaw is easy to get through iHerb, so if anybody is outside of the United States, you can still get it. And it's a little bit more affordable than Rosita. That's the one. that I use personally, and I give it to all my kids. So my [00:15:00] youngest is nine months old, and she gets cod liver oil.
My oldest is six years old, and he gets cod liver oil. And then another one be- would be Formula IQ. So they have little capsules, but that one would be an option for anybody who's in the United States 'cause it can be hard to source outside of there.
Michelle: And would you say that's, that would be better or a better option than just omega-3s, like a fish oil?
Samantha: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I would go with because when we're looking at like omega-3s, where is that coming from? A lot of the time it can just be kind of a mixture of different ingredients that are remnants from the fish. But when we're looking at cod liver oil, we're taking that really nutrient-dense part and, you know, when you...
I- it made me happy because I was telling my in-laws, I was like, "You guys need to start taking some cod liver oil. Get rid of the vitamin D supplement and take cod liver oil instead." And they were like, "Oh, we used to take that as a kid." I'm like, "Then that means we need to bring it back because there's some wisdom in that, where if it's something that we used to do, then that's probably a good [00:16:00] path to be on, that that's something that we should really be considering."
Michelle: Awesome. Yeah, that's so true. anything else that you would suggest?
Samantha: I would say those are like my five, my four or five places to start. Those are kinda like the, the basis of where we get the ball rolling from, and then slowly change things up depending on, you know, the client or what they're looking for kinds of things. I really think B vitamins are really important.
Oh, yeah, Beef liver Yeah. Yeah,
I really like beef spleen as well. So depending on the client, I'll look at beef spleen because I think a lot of our spleens are really deficient. So, having beef liver and beef spleen I think is really beneficial. But B vitamins are I would say a, a hot topic because a lot of people think that they have MTHFR, and then therefore that means that they need some kind of synthetic vitamin, and that's just simply not the case.
I, I find it really confusing when, when we start talking about B vitamins and people think, "Well, I have this you know, I have [00:17:00] an MTHFR, so then that means I need a methylated B vitamin." We're just swapping one synthetic B vitamin for another synthetic B vitamin. Whereas if we get a whole food B vitamin and help the body reduce some of that stress, then, you know, it's again, it's made up in a way that's much smarter than all of us.
So I, I think that that's a really important starting point as well.
Michelle: definitely. And then there are actually some good prenatals that are based off of whole foods. Is that typically what you'll suggest just in general, like, multivitamins that are whole food-based?
Samantha: So I would say the only prenatal that I've seen that would pass my test would be, I'm trying to think of what the name
Michelle: New Chapter I know does that, and I, I believe Best Nest,
Samantha: I don't, think I'm on board with those ones. But there's one that has like oyster powder, there's one that has beef liver, there's ones that have those that have, like, a different blend. I can't think of the one right now that does it. But if we get the whole food nutrients, then, you know, it's not [00:18:00] necessarily going to be just a, a prenatal supplement.
Michelle: you saying to get it from whole foods or like actually from eating or therapeutically through supplements that are based on whole foods?
Samantha: Yeah, you can get it through supplements that are based in whole foods, but, I mean, every supplement that I've looked up for the other ones that you suggested, I don't think that I've seen them where they're actually whole food based. There's some synthetic form that they're adding into it. But I, I'm trying to think of the one...
I know they have beef liver, oyster powder. It's like a purpl- Birthright? Birthright is a prenatal.
Michelle: Okay. I'll take it... I'll, I'll check it out. I have not seen it, but I learned... This is why I love having this podcast 'cause I'm always learning new things.
Samantha: Yeah.
Michelle: really fascinating. And what about copper? Where, where do people get that? 'Cause oftentimes you won't see that, which surprises me 'cause, like, I know in s- I, I feel like it should be in every zinc [00:19:00] supplement.
They should have a little copper just to organize it i-in a way or, or have that ratio because too much zinc can deplete copper. So at least, at the very least, have it balanced.
Samantha: yeah, it can. So if I'm looking at a copper supplement, typically I'll start off with, like, an alfalfa especially if somebody's pregnant, alfalfa can be a really good first step. And then looking at Formula IQ has one called Recuperate. So it has some spirulina in it, has some turmeric to help chelate the additional iron, has a little bit of beef liver to help make it bioavailable.
So I'd say that's like the Cadillac option of a copper supplement, and that would be the route to go for that one.
Michelle: Awesome. And so typically you'll do supplements or you'll also do like a, a diet that you like just suggestions for people to eat?
Samantha: Yeah.
that's right. So it can be a blend of both. I would say a lot of the time, most of my clients are concerned about supplements, but if they are, you know, maybe there's different [00:20:00] concerns that they have about their nutrition, then we'll, we'll dive into that for sure. I have, Like, we'll focus on different foods.
A big thing that we focus on is not consuming iron-fortified foods. It's a big one 'cause it doesn't work. So I would say that's kind of consistent across the board. But each client's unique for kind of What they're looking for. So a lot of the time I would say it's mainly supplements, but if anybody has questions around Nutrition and diet, then we absolutely start going into that because as long as we're getting whole foods, then it doesn't have to be difficult.
I would say like a lot of the questions too will come around, well, beef liver is high in iron, so does that mean that we should avoid it? But anything that's high in iron that's naturally occurring is going to be rich in copper. So if we're having whole foods, then the body knows what to do with it.
We don't have to cherry-pick, you know, kind of what we're throwing in. It's gonna take what it needs, and it knows what to do.
Michelle: What would you say for vegans?[00:21:00]
Samantha: I would say vitamin A in the form of retinol is not it's not all converted equally in the body. So vegans?
are typically not attracted to the way that I approach things because I don't think that there's any way of getting around having cod liver oil and beef liver and vitamin A in the form of retinol-rich sources because beta-carotene is converted in the body.
So if somebody was to go out and eat a bunch of carrots you know, it's a twelve to one ratio, but that's if our body isn't under excess stress from, you know, oxidative stress from iron not moving effectively. So that conversion doesn't mean that that's necessarily how it's going to happen. And that would be...
You know, I would say some of the clients who take a longer time to heal that I've worked with are ones who have been vegans in the past and they, they can struggle with different things that pop up. So I would say vegans are typically not attracted to the way that I approach things.
Michelle: I kind of-- I, I-- in the same [00:22:00] boat. I mean, I do o-often suggest organ meats, and sometimes you had mentioned also spleen, but they, they have a really nice concoction of all types of organ meats, sometimes a blend that they'll sell. But organ meats, according to Chinese medicine, which is my background, is they're the most bang for your buck.
I mean, we usually, typically, when we eat meat, we eat the muscle, so we're not really getting the nutrient-dense organ meats. But when you do have the organ meats, they really, you know, they're very nutrient-dense and very supportive of blood qi, the body, reproduction.
Samantha: yeah.
and like when we think of the, the spleen in traditional Chinese medicine, it has such a huge role and is so undervalued, but so, so important. And I can tell, I can typically tell when a client messages me and they're like, "I need some support," it-- they really are like those over-consumers [00:23:00] and I'm like, "Well, your spleen needs a little bit of love and attention here.
I bet you've had some iron supplements," 'cause it's... You can start to sense it. So Yeah.
And a lot of the focus is around the liver, but the spleen is, is so important
Michelle: Yeah, for sure. And you had talked about spirulina as well. Chlorella as well, do you ever suggest? And, and talk about splur- spirulina and the benefits just for people listening.
Samantha: So spirulina isn't something that-- It, I mean, it's included with the Formula IQ one, but that wouldn't be a typical route that I would go with a client. So spirulina can be helpful, has a role with helping chelate excess iron. As I'm not super familiar with it
Michelle: does as well. Yeah. It, it it binds and, and cleans out... clears out. So sometimes I'll do both. It's a very detoxifying... Yeah.
Samantha: Mm-hmm.
I, I would like for me, if I was going to have a client start something that's going to help bind and chelate iron, I'd be looking like an [00:24:00] IP6 supplement. I'd be looking more at like colostrum, things like that to, to help regulate it. If maybe somebody can't do blood donations maybe they aren't, don't have access to doing a bunch of blood work to help pull out some of that excess iron, things like that.
Those would be typically the route that I would go before spirulina, mainly because those are the ones that I'm more familiar with.
Michelle: And so somebody can look I guess, on a blood test like they're low in iron, but be excess iron?
Samantha: That's right. That's right, 'cause we're only...
Michelle: know that? How would they know that that's the case?
Samantha: Well, they can go based on their symptoms.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Samantha: So think of it more like a bell curve, where if we are deviating from that state of balance, then it could be high, it could be low. I would say, you know, people who are low, quote-unquote, in iron on their blood work, those ones I would say keep me up at night more than somebody who has high iron on their blood work, because at least the ones who [00:25:00] are high in iron are avoiding iron-fortified foods, they're avoiding iron supplements, they're avoiding those additional stressors.
The ones who are low in iron are getting iron infusions, they're taking iron supplements, they're taking all of these additional things. And part of the issue is it forces the spleen to work six times harder. So some people will have benefits from taking the iron supplements, and I say benefits very loosely because I think we really need to question what does a benefit mean when we're looking at these different things.
Because, you know, as long as we see a reduction in the symptoms that we want, then we think that it works. So for example, like birth control, taking away heavy periods, does that mean that that works? Well, if iron's regulated through blood loss, then I find it very hard to believe that birth control does work in the sense that for how we want it to when we're, if we're thinking of optimal health over a long period of time.
I myself took birth control for 15 years, so that means that on [00:26:00] average we'll lose about one blood donation a year. So I have 15 years of blood donations- or 15 blood donations to do over the years, so say four to five years, just to get me back to where I should have been naturally. And so I think part of it comes down to us questioning what does working actually mean?
And so i-in my sense, I'm looking at it through how can we help the body heal? How can we help the body detoxify? And I think that that's really important when we're looking at it through that lens there. So if we're having, you know, symptoms of gray hair, if we're having hair loss, if we're having itchy skin, if we're having you know, low iron, things like that, weight gain, different fertility struggles perimenopause symptoms, hot flashes, all these different things are the body trying to tell us that it's not at a state of balance.
And so supporting it and giving it that time to heal would be the, the route to go. But just because it's showing that it's either-- I mean, I [00:27:00] myself, when I was not pregnant, was, I'd say, like a poster child of where we want our iron to be. I never had a high hemoglobin, but I had this beautiful 80 to 120 ferritin.
Meanwhile, I was struggling with depression. I was struggling with anxiety. I was struggling with skin issues. I had all of these different issues, but my blood work was where we wanted it to be. And a large part is because, you know, the people who are interpreting the blood work aren't being taught how iron moves through the body.
They're looking at it through this lens, and that lens isn't actually telling us when we're looking at these ranges that are so significant as to whether or not the body is at a state of balance or not.
Michelle: It's fascinating. So you're talking about bloodletting as a way to cleanse excess iron?
Samantha: so important. I really think the key is not only just moving iron, but removing it, I think the solution to
Michelle: Because it circulates, so it's harder to remove other than bloodletting.
Samantha: Yeah.[00:28:00]
I think it's really concerning when we think about the amount of places that we can go and get an iron infusion, but then think of the places that we can go and have iron removed from our tissues. It's not that easy. So, again, it's a heavy metal. I would never recommend anybody go and get a copper infusion because that's not how we were designed.
Iron's meant to be absorbed through the small intestine, so by avoiding that, that's another concern that I have. But when we bloodlet, there's this hormone that the body produces, and it's called EPO. And I don't know why, but I think of it like Lord Farquaad. So I picture him, like, standing on top of a little hill, and then he has his team divided up into two, ready for battle.
And so he turns to one team and he says, "I want you to release more iron from the tissues." And then he turns to the other team and says, "I want you to build more red blood cells." And so as we produce more EPO, that's the goal. When we have a hemorrhage, when we have a heavy blood loss, we are trying to produce more EPO.
And so when we re-release and remove some of that blood, [00:29:00] EPO is produced, and that's really beneficial. So when we have blood loss, that's essentially what we're after. It's not necessarily the amount of iron that we're losing in that blood donation or bloodletting. It's that we wanna get to that hormone to start being produced So that the body can start to release and feel safe and release more iron from the tissues.
Michelle: So when you were saying early on, when you talked about your own experience giving birth and bleeding a lot, you believe that, I mean, it, it was because you had a lot of iron in your prenatals and your body was having so much. Because there, there's definitely 100% a correlation. Nobody knows, like, what came first, the chicken or the egg, with excess bleeding, heavy periods, and iron deficiency.
Samantha: Yeah, absolutely. So I would say I took iron supplements, I took prenatals and, you know, iron, iron's regulated through blood loss. That's a very common understanding of [00:30:00] how iron is, is, is regulated. And with that being the case, it wouldn't make any sense to me to, you know, think of, well, what's happening when we have a heavy blood loss?
If that's how iron is regulated, then our body isn't out to get us, even when people have autoimmune conditions and they think that their body's attacking them. The body just doesn't feel safe. There's an energetic component to things as well. And so I think that that's really important. But I mean, when I was 13, I used to have heavy periods.
I used to end up in the hospital from how much blood I used to lose, and they were completely debilitating. Well, I was no poster child of healthy habits. I would eat my Hot Pockets. I would have, like, ranch in excess. We did not eat healthy at the house, and the amount of iron that I would've been consuming just through foods alone would have been just excessive.
So, it makes sense now when I'm looking back at it to see. But yeah, I absolutely believe that the iron that I consumed while I was pregnant [00:31:00] definitely was a contributing factor to that.
Michelle: Mm-hmm, because your body was trying to get rid of it.
Samantha: That's right. It's gonna take the opportunity. It's gonna say, "Well, it's now or never. Let's dump it.
Michelle: And so I'm thinking about men because at, at the very least, women are able to get menstrual cycles once a month you know, at least bleed, you know. So with men, they don't really have that opportunity. So would you say that it's even more important for them to donate blood?
Samantha: Yeah.
absolutely. That and like menopausal women as well need to start removing it. Yeah. so, so important to be looking at doing regular bloodletting is, is, is crucial. There was a study that was done, and they looked at men and women, and they were looking at heart conditions. And men were 16 times more likely to have heart issues than women were until the woman had either gone through menopause or had a [00:32:00] hysterectomy.
And then once they had done that, then they had the same likelihood of heart conditions as men. So, you know, bloodletting has so many different effects on the body, but hysterectomies, I would say, are another one where if we've had a hysterectomy, then we need to be looking at removing it. 'Cause the hysterectomy realm confuses me as well because if a, if a male, for example, was having issues with loose stool, their recommendation wouldn't be, "Well, let's just remove your colon and stop the loose stool from happening."
So just going and removing our womb, our-- we were designed to have that womb. That has a purpose. So just removing it is removing the mode of communication. It's removing how the body's trying to balance itself. It's not getting to the crux of why is that imbalance happening in the first place.
Michelle: I agree 100%. I had two doctors try to convince me to have a hysterectomy because I already had my kids and I had fibroids, and I was like, "Nah, I don't, I don't wanna get rid of my [00:33:00] womb." I still... And I, and I enjoy my monthly bleeds. I actually, like, really do think that it's it feel, it feels like a release.
You really do feel this kind of cleanse, so it makes sense, a lot of what you're saying. It's very interesting. And what would you suggest if people wanna, like, look into it? Just, you had mentioned somebody that you listen to that speaks about this as well.
Samantha: Morley Robbins is the founder of the Root Cause Protocol, so that's an excellent place to start. If they're interested in like the perspective that I have on women's health, then I have so many free e-books. I have lots of free content on social media. That's a, a good place to start as well. But Morley Robbins and the Root Cause Protocol is a, is a Great.
place.
Michelle: Awesome. And, and how can people find you?
Samantha: So I have my website, which is wellnessandwomb.com, and I have, you know, different modes of social media platforms that are all linked there. But that would be the main way to go about finding me and being able to [00:34:00] download some of the free content that I have.
Michelle: And you're also very active on social media, sharing a lot of this content. W- what's your Instagram handle?
Samantha: So it's wellnesswomb with an underscore at the end, and then TikTok is the other one I would say that's bustling, and that one is wellnessandwomb with a A-N-D.
Michelle: Okay, and both can be found on the website
Samantha: You got it.
Michelle: links on the episode notes if anybody wants to find it, and then people can find your e-books as well on your website,
Samantha: That's right. That's right.
Michelle: This is fascinating. Did I miss anything? Was there anything extra that you think that would be really good for the listeners to know as far as questions?
Samantha: Yeah. I, I think that there's a, a large issue when we're thinking of women's health and how a lot of the narrative has been for the last hundred and, you know, 30 years that we have to outsource, that our bodies don't know what they're doing, and that [00:35:00] we need to, you know, find different ways to essentially medicate ourselves.
Like, especially when we're thinking of perimenopause and hormone replacement therapy and birth control and all these different things, it just doesn't make any sense. Our bodies weren't designed broken, and they're just trying to regulate themselves. So I think the more we can allow our bodies to speak to us, the better off things are going to be, and I think that's really important.
Michelle: I agree. I-- Our bodies are incredibly intelligent, and symptoms are actually our friends. They're trying to help us out. They're trying to guide us, and so, I think we get so annoyed with the symptoms, we wanna shut them up. And I think that also just the mainstream, I guess, medicine right now is really in that model of, like, just shutting down the symptoms 'cause they're a bother.
But the symptoms can help us tremendously. I mean, we look at it and, and you think about bloodletting too. Thousands of years people have been doing it, and we do it in Chinese medicine, [00:36:00] some people more than others. You know, it's, it's a type of treatment that we use. In some cases, they really go crazy with it, like they go into a big vein and lots of blood comes out.
I think that in our culture people get freaked out by that kind of thing. But I've seen, I've seen some videos and taken some courses and I was like, "Whoa, that's like a little more than I've even learned." But people have done it for migraines. I mean, completely, like, bloodlet on the side of the head, and it was very scary looking, but the person never got migraines again.
Samantha: Yeah.
Yeah, It's, it's amazing what we can do, and it's just that stagnation, you know, whether it's energy, whether it's just the blood not flowing effectively. There's, you know, there's so much to the healing with it, and I think that's also part of why so many women have thyroid issues is because we're muting our body communicating with us.
Well, that's like our throat. So our bodies, yeah, it's gonna start to tell us these different things that are popping up But I think [00:37:00] bloodletting is so important, and acupuncture is one of, like, the first places that if somebody has any kind of reservation, I'm like, "Go get some acupuncture. Go do some bloodletting, and you'll see that it's completely fine."
Michelle: Yeah. They knew, they knew back then. They were very smart, very wise.
Samantha: So, so smart.
Michelle: awesome. Well, Samantha, this was really fascinating. I really... I learned a lot myself, and those are my favorite. Those are the best interviews because I always love learning more myself on so many different topics. But I think this particular topic is incredibly important.
I think that a lot of people really need to hear this information, so thank you so much for coming on today.
Samantha: Thank you for having me.
Michelle: Awesome
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