Ep 380 The Fertility Exercise That Supports Hormones, Blood Flow, and Ovulation with Marta Han and Zsofia Jamieson
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by Marta Han and Zsofia Jamieson, founders of The Fertility Class @thefertilityclass and teachers of the Aviva Method, a pelvic centered movement practice designed to support hormonal balance and fertility.
In this conversation, we explore how targeted rhythmic movement can improve circulation to the reproductive organs, support communication between the brain and ovaries, and help regulate the menstrual cycle. Marta shares her personal story of recovering from hypothalamic amenorrhea after years of overtraining and undernourishing her body, while Zsofia talks about overcoming PCOS symptoms and restoring her cycles through fertility focused movement.
We also discuss how gentle, intentional movement can reduce pelvic stagnation, calm the nervous system, and create a sense of safety in the body, which is essential for ovulation and reproductive health. Marta and Zsofia explain how the Aviva Method works, why it is different from traditional workouts, and how many women notice improvements in ovulation, cervical mucus, PMS symptoms, and overall hormonal balance.
If you are trying to conceive naturally, navigating irregular cycles, or simply looking for a supportive way to reconnect with your body and reproductive health, this episode offers a powerful perspective on movement as medicine for fertility.
Key Takeaways:
The Aviva Method uses rhythmic pelvic focused movement to improve blood flow to the uterus and ovaries and support reproductive health.
Gentle and intentional movement can help regulate the nervous system and create the sense of safety the body needs for ovulation.
Pelvic stagnation from long hours of sitting and chronic stress may impact fertility and hormonal balance.
Movement that targets the pelvic region can support communication between the brain and reproductive organs.
Many women report improvements in cycle regularity, ovulation timing, PMS symptoms, and cervical mucus after consistent practice.
Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Episode number 3 79 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today's guest is one of those voices that instantly shifts the energy in the room. You may know her as Chia Mosley, the women behind pregnancy over 40. And her story is both powerful and deeply grounding.
After being told directly and indirectly that motherhood was no longer in the cards, chia naturally conceived at 46, welcomed her daughter at 47. And completely challenge the narrative. So many women are fed about age, fertility, and most importantly, what is possible in this conversation? We go far beyond the headline.
Chia shares the real origin story, what changed for her in her early forties, what it felt like to experience loss, and then conceive again. Why she decided to share her pregnancy publicly as a way of choosing courage over fear. [00:01:00] We also talk about how medical messaging can either collapse a woman's hope or support her physiology, the mindset shift she calls being willing to be lucky, and why she believes we need real research on the common denominators among women who conceive naturally after 40.
We also get into practical and holistic factors that matter, like movement. Food, environmental toxins, emotional boundaries, and spirituality. Plus my own perspective after being asked by chia on how acupuncture supports fertility through blood flow, digestion, and nervous system regulation. If you've ever felt exhausted by the fertility journey, discouraged by lab numbers like a MH or tired of being reduced to statistics, this episode is for you.
Michelle: [00:02:00] Welcome to the podcast, g. I'm so excited to have you on.
Cha Mosley: I am excited to be here. You have no idea.
Michelle: So we just had a really nice pre-talk and I've been following you for a little while on Instagram. Just love your story and I found it so inspiring and I really love bringing in inspiring guests on the podcast because I know my listeners need a lot of hope. It's the ups and downs of the fertility journey.
With that I would love to get your origin story so people can know, like really your amazing, inspirational story,
Cha Mosley: Okay, how far back to the origin do we wanna go?
Michelle: everything that's applicable to,
Cha Mosley: I feel like everyone, every [00:03:00] person's life from beginning to end is leading them to a place. But I'll fast forward and I'll start to, when I got dumped at the age of 41. By, I had been in a relationship with a man who was very upfront that he never wanted to get married and he never wanted to have children. And we had started dating when I was 38 and I really liked him and we did genuinely like each other. We had a really good friendship. We traveled and it was a lot of fun, but I justified this relationship by saying I'm already 38. I've never had trouble dating. I've never had trouble meeting men. So I said if I really wanted to have a family, I would've done it already. That's how I dismissed and made that right. And then my mom and dad actually did not get legally married until, I was wanna say 28 years old.
Michelle: Oh wow.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. My mom and dad were just together. Okay.
Michelle: so cool. I
Cha Mosley: Yeah I really feel like they showed me the [00:04:00] true definition of marriage because for two people who could have left at any time, they sure did ride it out through some things.
And so I was raised in a family where I didn't see that the actual ceremony of marriage was necessary for true commitment. And I know that this is not for everyone, but this is what I was raised in. And so this is how I justified that relationship. I don't believe that you actually commitment does not rely on marriage and that I'm old anyway, and so I must not gonna have no babies.
No way. And so Yeah.
we can make this work. It didn't work. I actually always wanted to have a family and while I still do hold a similar view about marriage. His unwillingness to entertain marriage was more about his lack of commitment. And that started, and not even so much oh, there was infidelity or things like that, but just we were just gonna be buddies and that started to resonate in how the relationship was moving forward.
And I became very unhappy. [00:05:00] saw that like we, he saw that, we went to a friend's wedding of his and the lady. Was like, why your girlfriend is so beautiful? Like when are you gonna marry her? And his reply was we're shopping for a dog. And I just felt so small and so introverted because o other people would look at me and say, this is a good catch.
When are you gonna get married? And there was always some off the wall strange answer that led nowhere near commitment or acknowledgement that he thought I was wonderful. And he saw that. I was shrink. I was shrinking. So he dumped me. I got dumped at 41 a week before my 41st birthday and believed that was it.
I had just given all my good years for man, I didn't want children. I continue to work on myself, continue to learn about people life, volunteer work, do things, and we fast forward and I also start writing down what am I looking for in a man? What am I looking for? What would he be looking for in me?
I start writing these things down. Ladies, you have to write these
Michelle: Yes. Yes.
Cha Mosley: You have to write everything down, every [00:06:00] goal, write it down, and, so here I am, I'm 43 and I'm single. There's now we're in a phase of COVID, right? I'm living in Florida now. I'm single. I'm in my cute little girl apartment and it's great, but I'm like, I'm tired.
I don't wanna be single anymore, and I make a decision. That's it. This is the year I'm meeting my guy. I am meeting my man. And then two weeks later we met and I met my guy.
Michelle: Oh, I love that.
Cha Mosley: Two weeks later, we met and he ticked so many boxes. it wasn't all of them, but enough. The important ones. There's some luxury items I had on there that weren't requirements.
Right?
Michelle: it would be nice items.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. Luxury items. If he was also. and so, you know, we fell in love very fast. And he's European, he's from Transylvania of all places. And so he started bringing me into a social circle and his native language is Hungarian. So not a lot of Sylvania out here, but there are Hungarian. So we go to the Hungarian parties with [00:07:00] his people and I could tell here's this black lady, right?
I'm new, like this is new. There's nothing in these parties, but Hungarians like he's an outsider. He's from Transylvania, but they let him in and he shows up with this lady and I could see the curiosity like, do you think you guys will have babies? Can you have baby? I could see the interest in Ooh, this would be good.
This little mix here would be nice. We started talking about it and we decided that it would be good. It would be good if we could have a baby, but I made it clear. I didn't wanna do IVF. I liked our life. We were very happy. By this time, I'm 44. I don't wanna introduce a fertility journey into my life. I'm like, I don't want our life to now become like I'm jacking myself up with hormones. We're sad because it's not working. I'm 44. There's a good chance it won't work. With my mindset. No ladies who are going for IVF, please, this is my story, not your story. I felt for me, I was not up for dealing with that with, and nor did I feel like we should, 'cause we were happy. And so we said, if it happens. It happened. So it, at least we discussed it to know that if it did happen, it wouldn't be like, oh you need to get an [00:08:00] abortion. We agreed that we would wanna keep the baby if it were to happen, and we went on about our lives, got pregnant at 45 miscarriage six weeks later.
But it made me excited about, started bringing back my hope. So like at that time of that six weeks of being pregnant, I started, maybe I can't have a family. I've always wanted to be a mom, but can have two children. And then I miscarried. Oh no, fine. But my OB at the time was a gym, and she assured me miscarriages happened to women of all ages. It's not about my age. Miscarriages happened, and the fact that I could get pregnant at 45, I was 45 by then was a good sign, and she believed I could conceive again. And it was that medical attitude that I am begging every practitioner to adopt just imbu positivity into your patients. And sure enough, 10 months later I conceived and I went looking for her, and she was retired.
Michelle: Oh no, but I was gonna say, when you said that, I was like, that's really lucky.
Cha Mosley: That's the story in a nutshell. And had a healthy, beautiful baby.[00:09:00]
Oh yeah. I forgot that part. Yeah, so I conceived again 10 months later and of course I was afraid. Because I had that miscarriage before, very reluctant to tell anybody that I was pregnant. Very reluctant to get excited about it. Because, I probably wasn't gonna carry her to term anyway.
And I didn't know it was a she at the time. It wasn't gonna carry it to term, and I didn't wanna tell people, but then I didn't like my attitude. I was like, that's really this really like chicken shit chia. You're essentially like rooting against your baby and you're acting in fear. And fear is a very low emotion to carry around.
And so I decided that I would share my story on social media, not share it because I'm gonna be an influencer inspiring women, but I'm just gonna tell people I'm pregnant so that I'm not hiding it. I'm just gonna communicate about it broadly. 'cause that's the opposite of fear. And this was all about me handling my own. SHIT about myself. And then women started following along and my belly started growing bigger and bigger, and all the tests were coming back positive. And then I just started developing this following. And now I was like [00:10:00] now I have to keep going because these ladies are so invested now. They wanna see the baby, now they wanna know the baby.
Now they're calling themselves internet aunties. Now they're in it. Now I can't stop.
Michelle: That's amazing. It's incredible. I was blown away with the story. I just love it because so many people are in their forties, in at 35, are told that they're geriatric. Like it's geriatric pregnancy. Your fertility falls off a cliff. This is literally what's in the textbooks.
And of course, statistics are not personal. It's just take everybody in. Put into this whole big category of this is what it is, and you're just a.
Cha Mosley: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I ran into that, towards the end of my pregnancy when um, they were talking about inducing me and I was like, listen, here's the deal. I said I, because they were like, because of your age and it's your first pregnancy and, and African American women I had these like triple strikes against me. And I was, and I said, listen, I have a master's degree. And not [00:11:00] that education matters, but it's an indicator of something, i'm college educated, I ran division one track. I've never done drugs. I don't have any pre-existing conditions. I'm not alcoholic. I've never been on medications. Like I have nothing.
Does that not make my chances any better? The data factors all that. No, it doesn't. It's impossible. It's impossible. And so my new chance now that women are gonna hear me repeating more and more as I want some white coats to do the research. What is the common denominator on women who can conceive naturally after 40?
There is some underlying predispositions or lifestyle factors that we have that I think are worthy of studying. We're not just lucky. I hate that. Of course. Luck, of course. God, of course. These things are factors, but not to the point of ignoring what did you do? What did all of you ladies do? What did you eat? What's your hormone levels? What, when did you start your period? Like I [00:12:00] don't know the exact questions to ask, which is why I think I'd like some white coats to do it. But there was, I saw in 60 Minutes there was a study as a centurion study like about people who lived to a hundred and they care at this study on, I don't know, for 20 years, researching these people who live to a hundred and why in the common denominators.
And I'm like, can we not do such a similar thing for pregnancies after
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah.
Cha Mosley: we could put the truth. Let's update the data.
Michelle: I agree. I think I would love that information and that data.
Cha Mosley: There's too many of us sitting at home, right? And obviously some ladies are using, IVF or donor eggs or things like that. But then we can work backwards and we can help women make lifestyle choices that. Gear them towards prolonged fertility because there's a lot of ladies in other countries, they're like, what's the big deal?
Like women in my country have babies into their forties and fifties all the time, and I'm like this is, I love America. Don't get me wrong. I'm not one of these people that hates my country. I've traveled to enough places to know I like it here, but however, it's a [00:13:00] mess with the food and drug,
Michelle: a hundred
Cha Mosley: pharma relationships and all The things we're taught, you know
about our
Michelle: food actually interesting. There was a study of processed food that when women stop eating processed food and eat whole foods, their a MH goes up.
It's wild.
Cha Mosley: it's wild. It's wild, right? We've been set up. We've been set up from an early age. I've been telling women I got put on birth control pills at 15, but I got off right. And I, with the thought that I think I wanna have a baby one day, so I should probably stop taking these, right? But put on birth control pills at 15.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. No. It happens all the time. It's probably more of a story, like the majority of the stories.
Cha Mosley: So yeah. So here we are. Here we are, us girls talking about this thing and trying to spread the word that there's other ways, there's other means, there's other therapies. We need to be taking care of [00:14:00] ourselves way in advance of our fertility journeys. We need to start in our teens, our twenties.
Our bodies are so forgiving in our twenties. You don't realize. The damage you're causing sometimes until later
Michelle: 'Cause you don't feel it.
Cha Mosley: You don't really feel it. But I feel like I was fortunate enough that I got some clear education in my thirties. Into my forties that altered how I was managing my body.
And I think it really helped. I'm glad to be meeting with you an acupuncturist. I didn't share with you, but acupuncturist saved me from debilitating pain twice. So I didn't use it as part of my fertility journey 'cause I didn't have a fertility journey. I got pregnant by surprise. But I have used acupuncture and I direct anybody I can.
I go see an acupuncturist, whatever the problem is, add it to the protocol.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, because because really the side effects are minimal maybe bruising or, there's not like a ton of it's so safe and it's incredibly effective. Yeah, so that's that's definitely something. That's how I got into [00:15:00] it. I started as a patient. I was so intrigued that whenever I'd go, I'd ask them, what is this point?
What is that point? What is this? It's so interesting. How does this work? I don't get it. It was really amazing.
Cha Mosley: You're talking about acupuncture, like ba basically restoring your own fertility and hormonal balance. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. It really did. Yeah, that's really fascinating. What's really interesting about your story is that you came from an unconventional household, So what's interesting is if you see like families where people are, kids learn two languages, it's much easier for them to learn languages. It almost opens their mind to something different. And so I'm wondering, subconsciously our bodies respond to new things more easily if we know that something can still work, even though it's not necessarily conventional.
Michelle: So I'm wondering if there's some kind of subconscious open-mindedness that you had because of seeing your parents and seeing how things can be, they don't necessarily have to conform [00:16:00] to what's considered normal.
Cha Mosley: Exactly right. Exactly right. Like in that aspect of things. For sure. And I feel like as well too,
like I.
learned so much from my mom and dad and their endurance in their relationship and how they approached each other that yeah you can see that non-conventional and non-traditional things do work.
I saw how they supported each other. Gosh, that I had a train of thought with that about open-mindedness, I think. Yes. So there's also a philosophy that I adopted about myself that I realize you gotta, if you're self aware, you'll realize things about your trajectory in life. And I adopted something, and I hope that people receive this.
We're in a very political climate, but just receive this as I'm telling it and make nothing else out of it. Please. So many years ago, before Donald Trump was our president. He went and spoke at my friend's job, like he was brought in as a guest speaker, motivational or something. And in this speech he said and she relayed this [00:17:00] to me, that you have to be willing to be part of his success was a willingness to be lucky. Just some people aren't even willing to receive luck, which we're finding this in my comment streams and things like that, right?
But when she shared that with me, I thought, yeah, that's interesting. Be willing for the sky to drop a million dollars on your head. Now she shared this with me. I was barely in my twenties, so now I'm 50. Right? So that was a long time ago, but that was something I.
said, you know what? Yeah.
I like that. I'm willing to be lucky. Then further, I realized I would have some bad situations pop up sometimes. And, but I never got the worst case scenario, right? Missed the flight by mistake.
Miss booked. It showed up a day later, no problem. Just pay a $50 upgrade and we'll take care of you, man. I never get the that's gonna be $1,000 and you have to wait in line. And then so I adopted another life operating basis philosophy about myself that [00:18:00] I'm lucky. And I never, even when things go bad, I never get the worst case scenario. Things go bad, but I never get the worst case scenario. And so these are two operating basis that I've just carried with me. I'm willing to be lucky. I'm willing for things to not even and I wasn't thinking about it, and it just happened and it went well. And even if it goes bad, it ain't gonna go as bad as it could have.
And that's my, this is how I run my life.
I
Michelle: love that. Have you heard of the Luck Factor? It's a book.
Cha Mosley: No. What's
Michelle: It's really interesting. So I listened to the audio book 'cause I just don't have time to sit and read. But I listened to the audio book and it's called The Luck Factor. And it's based on actual like studies or research that they did on certain people that are considered to be luck.
And he was talking about even like some lady who won the lottery multiple times, like things like that. There are people like that. That do live in this world. There are people that are really considered very lucky against all odds. And so they were curious [00:19:00] to see what is it? And I don't remember the big list, but the two things that really came to mind is people who are more apt to put themselves out there in certain opportunity because you can't have opportunities without having the experiences.
So it's almost like the idea of. If you're 50, 50% chance of success if you're going and trying versus 0% success if you don't do anything. So it's really getting out there, meeting other people because when you're meeting other people, you're putting yourself in this network and then through that, opportunities arise.
And you have all these like happenings or synchronicities that happen. Versus and then that's one of them. And then another thing is that you also see yourself, like you see things that are not that happen that aren't good, that they're there to help you in some way. Like you just have this in innate belief.
And then you're also very nonchalant about like things that happened oh yeah, this is just normal. [00:20:00] When things happen really well, like it's just, it's a normal thing and you don't put extra focus on making it happen or you're just flowing with you go with the flow and I thought that was really interesting
Cha Mosley: That is cool. That
Michelle: and it's it sounds like you just had that naturally,
Cha Mosley: Yeah.
Michelle: it out.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. You arrive at places and things and. You learn about life and you study and you learn about spirituality and the mind and things and I read a book, dietetics and I learned about the mind and past trauma and how the mind can. Cause you to behave rationally and do certain things and start to sort out oh do I have to be irrational because of something that happened in the past?
Or can I get a hold of myself? Can I,
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: Just, and so you start learning how to operate more like a winner. It is also something my father ingrained in me as well, my father coached me in running track and he's always very competitive. My dad is I dunno if you remember TC from the original [00:21:00] Magnum pi, but there's a TV show, Magnum PI with Tom Selleck in Hawaii.
Many people in, yeah. So he was an actor in a time where black actors didn't have the kind of success that he was having, and he's very much a winner and has a winner attitude. So he always ingrained in me too, having a winning effing attitude like you're doing. When people ask you how you're doing, they don't wanna hear all your problems, you're fine.
And not to say that you can't have problems, right? But there was just a certain. Attitude that he wanted to see me carry through in life. And as I become older, I more greatly understand and appreciate it. You have to be a winner. You cannot approach life because things happen and oh this, and my dad hit me and my dog ate my homework, and the cat did this, and everybody did these things to you.
You're not gonna make it. This planet eats victims. eats
Michelle: oh, trust me. I've been there. When we were talking before, you were a, it was really nice actually. She was asking about me which usually don't PE [00:22:00] guests don't do. She's I wanna know who I'm talking to.
Cha Mosley: Yeah.
Michelle: So I had shared that I had irregular periods, and during that time my hormones were outta whack and there was a time for sure I had a very big victim mentality at work and things weren't working out.
And I remember something clicked and I was like, wait I can't be doing this. I gotta. I can't, I gotta get myself out of this. I gotta start thinking more positive. It was almost like my spirit guide. Some I don't know, something was telling me I was getting downloads like, Michelle, this isn't working.
you gotta take you gotta take responsibility. Take responsibility for your stuff. And it was just like somehow, but it was good because I had to go through that, at least for me. I needed to experience what it was like somewhere where I felt helpless. It makes me a better coach now, like it makes me a better guide for the people that I work with.
Cha Mosley: Yeah.
Michelle: To understand really what it feels like to be in different states of mind. And then [00:23:00] finally, I read the book, the Power of the Subconscious Mind by Joseph Murphy, and that literally single-handedly changed my life. Besides the acupuncture, but it was around the same time.
Cha Mosley: But it's mindset too. The acupuncture, acupuncture is actually, to me, very spiritual too. It really is. It's very spiritual, but It's a, an address to the
body. It's energetic.
right? It's
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: right? But there is the spirit is separate. The mind, the spirit. These are things that we're dealing with outside of the body and you have to address them both somehow some way, because your body will only be as well as your mind lets it right anyway.
So if you are sad chronically, you're going to be sick more often. That.
Michelle: And it's actually according to science, it's actually known. It's a fact like that's been studied.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. You gotta find a way to be innately happy, preferably without drugging yourself there. I know that doctors prescribe medications for the mind, but those don't [00:24:00] unburden the real reason of the sadness anyway, or the upset or the anxiety. And you're ideally, if you can work through that and get there, you will be physically better.
Michelle: Yeah, elevated emotions. That there was a study that was done that showed that if laughter therapy after IVF transfers like increased the success rate like dramatically.
Cha Mosley: I believe that just like laugh, just find a reason to laugh and just like it's true that there is a drill I've done too, that if you just start laughing, you'll just laugh. You force to laugh and then you laugh.
Michelle: No, literally. And it's funny 'cause you were talking about how you wrote down things, first of all, writing things down. There was a study on that too, and it actually, if you write down your goals, you're 40% more likely to have them happen. That's, so writing is actually incredibly important.
There's something really magical about it. Probably we only scratch the surface as to why it works. There's, it's really profoundly effective. And then also. I wrote about my husband [00:25:00] before I met him, so I did affirmations. 'cause I was like, this is what I want. And it was like a whole list and he had to be funny.
And I was like I need somebody to make me laugh, like somebody who's funny because I just feel like life is so much better when you can laugh, like with the people you're around because it there's gonna be heavy situations that we're gonna face, you know, if we're gonna get married and I want somebody who I can laugh with.
Cha Mosley: That is fantastic. I didn't put laughter on mine and that's a good one. That's a good one. I should have put that down 'cause you got a terrible sense of humor. I feel honey, that is not funny. But I
Michelle: But sense of humor is contagious. So you can influence him.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. I, working on it. Working on it. But I did put that
I want somebody who was happy.
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: Somebody who I.
like a happy man. Men that got chips on their shoulder and access to grind are exhausting. You need a happy, I need a happy man that can grind and ax, just not, but he's not doing it as a way of life.
Michelle: Yes. But that's yeah. As long as you can laugh at him, it's [00:26:00] okay.
Cha Mosley: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Michelle: then that's also considered part of it.
Cha Mosley: List, list. He,
Michelle: But you can influence him. You can influence him.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. No, totally.
Michelle: Watch comedies do something funny. We watch reels all the time. I laugh his like, I can't even breathe sometimes with some of the reels that I find on. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm sitting there scrolling. I'm like, I can't even believe myself.
I can't. I gotta stop.
Cha Mosley: I know. Yeah. I think our common thing is these reels that are so ridiculous that the comment sections are the funniest part. Like the reel
Michelle: Oh
Cha Mosley: bad that they just go straight to the comments what do
Michelle: yes.
Cha Mosley: say?
Michelle: It's so funny. It's really like sometimes I'll screenshot and send it to my family 'cause it's just, it's so funny. But I was gonna say, so speaking of reels, like you, we were just talking about this in the pre-talk, how sometimes when you do break the status and you live a life that is unconventional in a good way.
It's so interesting, and [00:27:00] I found this just in general, like learning, like the mindset how sometimes even when I'm working with people, like I can't be too quick to change the reality or to question the reality or, it's an ease thing. The reason why is because when people's reality, even though it's a worse reality than the reality you're presenting.
For them to switch from a reality that they're comfortable with, even though it's not a good one, they're gonna be really protective of it. And it's a really interesting psychology. But it is, you present them with something that is so incredible that breaks really, like the reality or the logic that people have gotten so used to breaks the, I guess the record, the same thing with a four minute mile.
About a lot. It's like the second it, the second it was broken and people mentally prepared for it, then it was broken a lot more frequently, very closely [00:28:00] after.
Cha Mosley: yeah, I like that analogy. I might use that one
Michelle: Oh, use it. Take it.
Cha Mosley: Yeah.
Michelle: Yeah. But it's amazing how people are very protective of it, including the industry and how people just don't like, they don't wanna hear it.
That it's possible to get pregnant in your late forties. And the oldest woman that got pregnant actually naturally was 58, and she had her baby at 59.
Cha Mosley: Wow.
Michelle: But the point is it's possible.
Cha Mosley: that's it. That's all I'm saying
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: Hey, it's a mindset, almost like the four minute mile. Know that there is somebody that ran a four minute mile, so if that one person did it, they know that it can be done. Again, that's, that is essentially the simplicity. Of my message and, but Yeah.
it does hit realities of people who don't like it. It hits realities of women who have been going at it for a long time. Without success, right? It ruffles their feathers a [00:29:00] bit, but largely my message isn't directed at them when I say that it's possible, right?
It's to the women who haven't even met their man yet and they're panicking. They're 40 and they're still single, or they're just trying, and they went in and the doctor said, oh, your A MH is low, and they're destroyed thinking that it's impossible. My messaging is to those women who are just starting out, that the first mindset before you talk to anybody is just simply know that it's possible. And the moment that you hear that it's not possible, raise that as a red flag and go find somebody else.
Michelle: Yeah,
Cha Mosley: That's all I'm saying right now. You'll do your journey and what will be, and some women do genuinely struggle with infertility, but. There's so many things that you can do for yourself to prepare your body for pregnancy before we conclude that you genuinely have infertility. There's some work to be done, and that's all I'm trying to tell women. But not only is it [00:30:00] possible, you can have a perfectly favorable outcome, like I, I represent, I know the holy grail of what's possible. Natural conception, right? Without trying carry my baby to term. I didn't have diabetes, I didn't have preeclampsia. I didn't swell, I didn't vomit. I gained like 23 pounds, like my body bounce back. The baby's healthy. But guess what? That's fucking good news. I dunno why people are so mad.
Michelle: Yeah. No, it's amazing news. It's incredible. It inspires me. That's what like your story really is so inspiring.
Cha Mosley: And most people get it. Most people get it. But some people that are in a certain frame of mind take the messaging as an assault that I am misdirecting women and giving false hope and I shouldn't tell them this. And I'm like everybody else is telling 'em everything else. I'm, my story is not the problem.
Michelle: It's just your story.
Cha Mosley: Teach my story.
Michelle: Yeah. And so to that I would love if somebody really did study this and ask questions. I'm almost [00:31:00] thinking of just doing a questionnaire on my own, like not real study, but just collecting information. 'cause I'd be really curious, but from your perspective, because I do believe in intuition.
I do think that your opinion of this matters, even if you're not a white coat, because you know innately. What innately we have intelligence within us that kind of guides us. What are your thoughts of why you were able to conceive? Are there anything, like we were talking about the mindset, maybe seeing things or visioning or allowing yourself to feel lucky, but anything else?
Cha Mosley: There's those things, right? There's my general attitude about life, but again, we talk about the western culture. So one, I was an athlete, right? Like I, I ran track. I was very fit and I maintained that fitness through my thirties and things where I run and I used my body. I didn't let my. Muscle mass go. I kept myself fit. [00:32:00] I'm proud of the fact that I don't smoke cigarettes. I did in my upper twenties, I had a brief party girl phase in Vegas where I was drinking, right? But that didn't last long. I actually self-regulated on that. I drove home drunk one night. I drove, I'm really intoxicated. And I looked at that night and I said, that's not okay. God got you home, but don't do that again. And I never drank like that again. And so I don't have a, I don't have genuinely an alcohol history or a drug history. I think that these things matter. My mom taught me how to cook, so I cook at home.
I've always cooked at home more than eating out. I do eat out, I
Michelle: So you eat more whole foods, like actual, like
Cha Mosley: Whole food. Yeah.
I take the ground meat and I ground it up and throw it in a salad or I make a taco and I'm not, Yeah.
maybe the taco shell was processed, but the fact of even just simply cooking at Yeah. Using your own hands and your energy to make your food.
Your own hands, your own energy, you know what you put in it.
There's not all these extra added things that you get when you [00:33:00] go to a restaurant or McDonald's, right? So the fact that I eat at home more than I eat out the people that I surround myself with, like I'm very mindful of energy. Like you have your own energy, but your energy is influenced by your environment.
Michelle: It's true.
Cha Mosley: So if you're surrounded by negative people, you will eventually drop down to that or worse. So my girlfriends, are very positive people. My fiances are upbeat, peppy, happy guy. And that's how I like it. And I don't hang out with drama. I just don't like, I don't, I'm not interested.
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: I'm almost a bad friend. Energy. Like you can only call me so many times with the same problem before I'm like, stop calling 'cause I done told you what I think. So this is the fifth phone call about Tyrone. If you're not gonna leave him, that's okay, but we need to talk about something else.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.
Cha Mosley: Waste all my hours with your whining. I'm not
Michelle: about this a lot. Boundaries.
Cha Mosley: I been always wanna [00:34:00] throw up the fence. Like you can call me a couple times with the problem, but if I gave you my advice and you don't wanna follow it, I don't care. That's okay. But we gotta talk about something else.
Michelle: Yeah, that's true.
Cha Mosley: that's how it is. It's your energy.
It's how you allow people to interact and engage with you. It is what you put in your body. I stopped wearing fragrances. I cut, I said I should I didn't stop. I would say I cut my use of fragrance products by about 85%. At the age of 30, your skin's your largest organ.
So I bathe with un fragrance soaps and Yeah.
sometimes it's dove and that might have some other stuff in it, but I just, you can't do everything right.
Michelle: Yeah, it's true.
Cha Mosley: like some, you gotta give yourself a break somewhere, right? So the fragrance products and things, I really cut back on that. And I think the sum total of the energy of the people that I exercised, that I maintained my weight, that I didn't drink, that I didn't do drugs, that I didn't smoke. These things add up to something that makes sense.
Michelle: Let me ask you another question. Do you have a [00:35:00] spiritual practice or some kind of belief in something higher?
Cha Mosley: I do.
Michelle: Yeah, I think that's a big one too.
Cha Mosley: I think that spirituality and acknowledgement of a higher entity beyond yourself. That there is a spiritual factor to this universe is extremely important. I respect everybody's belief and philosophy, so I don't get into what that should be because it's gonna be individual.
I think any person faced with a life or death situation for themselves or their child, if they never believed in God, suddenly find themselves. Please, at the last Minute Rec, recognizing that there's something beyond yourself. And I do. I do, and you,
Michelle: had an amazing guest who actually you should connect with if you want to speak to because you'd mentioned like speaking to a lot of practitioners. Her name is Dr. Lisa Miller. She's a psychotherapist and she she's a researcher in Columbia University and [00:36:00] she's, she basically researches the brain on spirituality and she had her own fertility journey.
Had realized. And what they've discovered is that believing in something higher doesn't necessarily have to look any one way. It's just the idea of believing in something greater than yourself. So whatever that is, it could be the Dao, it could be, God, it could be Jesus, it could be any, anything.
And so you basically believing in that or having that kind of faith in something greater than yourself that you can lean on. Protects you from depression, it changes your brain.
Cha Mosley: That's very, now, that's the first time because psychotherapy in and of itself is very mind and materialistic usually. That's fascinating that she's studying the effects of the spirit
Michelle: Yes.
Cha Mosley: on mental health. Good for her.
Michelle: It's fascinating. Her work's incredible. Like she's just somebody who I really admire and [00:37:00] love, like she's just a wonderful person. And, you could see that she's really got her heart into this. She loves what she does, and she feels like really passionate about it. And I understand why.
Because it, there's a message. She's really bringing out a message into the world that is very much needed now.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. Yeah. There, there is something at play beyond just what we see here. I believe it is been demonstrated to me conclusively. Like I, I don't even believe it. I know it
Michelle: Yes. Yeah, I love that. Thank
you. That's
Cha Mosley: yeah, Let me, yeah,
Michelle: yeah that's definitive language right there. I love that because it's true. It I've even seen it with my patients once they make a connection with the spirit, baby. They just say, okay, child of mine I just wanna connect with you. Show me little signs.
And the signs that they get. I'm telling you like two of them had signs that specifically at referenced numbers that ended up being the date [00:38:00] of birth of their child. Is that nuts or what? I was like, okay, now how do you explain that? There's no other explanation other than it is, it's so mag magnificent and beyond divine.
Cha Mosley: It is beautiful and I tell women this too, right? When they're on their journeys, like to your point of what you're saying, I.
say be the baby. Be the baby. Imagine that there's a being coming and it's looking for a mom and a dad and it stops over your house and there's all this crying and bickering about the fertility and all this upset and all.
I said, would you want to come into a family like that? And not a lot of pressure, like it's just a god dang baby, right? The baby's supposed to come in and alleviate all this distress. You're dramatizing right now. No, that's not a household anybody would wanna come into or. A job, if it was a job or a career environment and somebody was peeking in watching the stick wow, that's really dramatic.
I don't know if I want all of [00:39:00] that. Really encourage women to take a step back. Take a step back, and I know when, again, my conceptions were relatively easy, right? And I get it when a woman has been trying, she really wants the baby. I'm not trying to negate the emotional toll that can take, especially if it involves a lot of losses.
I, I don't wanna negate that, but I do want to also. Really just point up the fact that you're trying to bring in life and you wanna bring in quality life, right? Not all beings are the same on this planet. We have murderers and we have. Saints,
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: On the we, right? And so which one is yours?
Which one is coming to you? It's true, I don't mean to be blunt, but it's, so who do you want? Who do you want? And I think that it really, you have to take a step back, maybe take a break, maybe take a vacation, and really just regroup, calm the environment and make it appealing for your baby.
Michelle: It's [00:40:00] interesting Nancy Weiss she's, she actually is a spirit baby medium, and she ended up using embryo donors. And she said that she had she had basically like just information that came to her and she gets that a lot and she felt that's what really got her to find her embryo sisters in Atlanta where she moved randomly, but there's no random, there was like definitely something that pulled her there.
Cha Mosley: Wait, her embryo sisters,
Michelle: Embryo sisters. So it was embryo sisters and she ended up adopting them. And. Using them like with IVF. So it was just incredible. And one of the girls looks like her. She put a side by side picture of her when she was little and when her baby was the same or her daughter was the same age and it was insane.
So I there's definitely like in an intelligence at work, but one of the messages that she got was that your baby wants to play you. Your baby wants you to be [00:41:00] playful, your baby wants you to play. So that it can feel an opening to come.
Cha Mosley: Wow, that's real. It's a baby.
Michelle: So
Cha Mosley: baby's gonna be so vulnerable. Can't do anything, can't defend itself. You wanna come into a house full of strife where it can't relax. Or it's gotta be the solution for the happiness. Like you can't make the baby the solution for your happiness. Gotta get the happiness going.
Chill
Michelle: Yeah. I like your honesty too. I appreciate your honesty because I think that it is important and sometimes honesty's not gonna feel sugarcoated. It's gonna feel like sometimes it's gonna sting, if it's something that. We need to look at It's okay to challenge your thoughts. It's okay to challenge your perspective and to kinda look at it
Cha Mosley: yeah, and it depends on the place from which it's coming, right? Like
Michelle: right. From a good
Cha Mosley: From a Yeah.
it's an intention, right? There's. Nothing that's lacking understanding or compassion. But sometimes you need a third person [00:42:00] outside of the situation to look in and be like, Hey, but what about just to redirect your attention. And my intention though, direct, like I've said it before and it was, it's always been received about having to chill out. 'cause imagine the BA have you looked at what the baby would be looking at if they were looking in your house? And they're like, oh no, they never would consider.
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: What would the baby think of all this?
Michelle: Yes. And it is, it's a dance. It's not it's not something that we could just press a button. It's a dance between us and invitation, and it's like really a three-way dance. It's you, your partner, and the soul of the child coming in.
Cha Mosley: Absolutely. I would joke with people when they would ask me like, do you think you can have a baby? I would literally joke and I'd be like, yeah, some bean could come in here and scrape an egg off the side of my uterus and make it work. I wouldn't even say it in, in the right I'd already have it sitting on the uterus, like some bean could come along and find an egg and make, make it work.
Then he or she can have at it. But that's all I'm doing. [00:43:00] I'm not doing nothing else. And that's the baby. I got that baby came in, found an egg and made it work.
Michelle: Incredible. That's just amazing. I just love it so much. I knew that I was gonna have the best conversation with you, and I'm telling you, like I, I was like, there's something really cool about her. Just like in general, your personality, and then on top of it, your story. And I just love the fact that you are just unapologetically like.
Yourself and inspiring. You're just like, yeah, you can do it.
Cha Mosley: Because you can, like if sometimes, I have to tell women now because they don't understand 'cause they see me. With hundreds of thousands of followers now, and lately I've been going viral, right? So I'm like really being pushed out there. My account's skyrocketing. They lose sight of the fact that just a few years ago, I was a vulnerable, scared lady who thought that I was gonna lose my baby.
And the only reason why I posted anything on social media was because I was scared and it was my own [00:44:00] therapy, my own handling for myself. I am not some PR machine agent with a whole team guiding this movement. I'm evolving with it. I don't have all the messaging worked out. I don't have all the, everything is not a perfect statement.
Half the time I'm shooting stuff on the fly or something seems interesting and I whip out my camera because I was just that lady just a few years ago that was just sitting at home scared and didn't even wanna tell anybody I was pregnant. Now you look up a few years later, you think I need to have everything all organized and all together, and all perfectly stated and said I'm sorry.
Michelle: never perfect.
Cha Mosley: It ain't never gonna never be perfect. I'm not gonna say never. I'm willing for this to evolve into something big where I have a PR team and it polishes up and it gets professional. But this is still a very, It's life, It's very real. It's very grassroots. I definitely. It's, I'm having a good time.
I'm having a good time, and I do feel where if there have been times where I said something and it did hurt a lady who's still on her journey I feel for that and I [00:45:00] apologize for that. I really do. If anything was taken in a context that caused hurt, because that's the least thing that I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to rally every lady, whether you've been trying for 10 years or 10 minutes, you can do it.
Michelle: But you know what though? That's how it is. When you're getting to the point where your message is coming out, you're gonna have all kinds of different perspectives, reactions, and and I, that's what happens. It's just your voice is getting heard, which is an amazing thing, but I think the majority of people are actually getting inspired.
Cha Mosley: I think So, too by, by my observational statistics,
Michelle: Yes. Yes.
Cha Mosley: Of my comments, things, the favorable comments. Far exceed any negative ones. But I'm one of those people where I'm very capable of self-inspection and 'cause I really do wanna help every woman. I don't wanna alienate. I don't care if I alienate medical practitioners who don't like my message.
I actually don't care about that. But I do care about the ladies in the trenches because I love being a mom [00:46:00] so much. It's been the most beautiful experience. Like I sometimes I just stare at my daughter. I still can't believe she's there. Like I'll just be watching her play and I'll look at her dad and I'd be like, can you believe we did that? Can you believe like we look at her like we have a daughter. I'm still just in awe that she's here. And I want this for every woman because I believed that I wasn't gonna have a baby. I had written it off. I was content to live life not being a mom. And to some degree you have to be willing to do that, but I'm so grateful that my contentment didn't win and that God, to be a mom. There's so much about being a woman and about our bodies and everything. I feel you don't even get to understand until you carry life and bear life and I just feel made more woman. I feel way more feminine since having her. And it's another level of love that you can't experience anywhere until you hold your baby.
And I don't care if that's an adopted baby, A donor egg baby. Your baby, Right.
You decide that's your baby.
[00:47:00] There's just kind of love. It is just, it's being a mom. It's being a mom. And I wanted so bad for every woman and I get so angry when I see like how much discouragement there is for them for their femininity and their God-given right to bring life. And then I look at it and I'm like. The over 40 mom is a valuable type of mom. We remember life before cell phones. We remember life before the internet. There is a wisdom and an experience that we bring that's almost gonna be lost. It's gonna be lost, but there's a grounding that I think that we can bring to future generations that's still needed and very important. We're still healthy, we're not dying. And I just hated that women are so discouraged. I'm like, what the fuck?
Michelle: yeah. It, there's a lot of messaging out there that's. So it's not good, it's not healthy, and it's so unconscious, like it's just expected [00:48:00] and it's, that bothers me because that's not, it became like the status quo and it shouldn't be.
Cha Mosley: it shouldn't. So with that, I wanna reverse a question on you. I know we're coming up on our time, but I'm a big fan of acupuncture. How do you apply acupuncture to fertility? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Michelle: Of course. So with, for, with any kind of acupuncture for anybody, we look at patterns. So the first thing I do is I always look at, sorry, there's like a bug flying around. I always look at patterns first. So if a person has like blood deficiency, we wanna tonify or if they're really deficient with energy chi life force vitality.
If they have blockages, if certain areas, if they have like blood stagnation. So we look at like the overall,
Cha Mosley: how do you look at it? Do you require blood work or do you have scanners? Without
Michelle: no.
Cha Mosley: Do you do?
Michelle: look at tongues. We look at, we feel pulses. Also, honestly, the biggest one is for me questioning [00:49:00] and also sensing their energy and kind of like being around them and looking at them. Probably even more so than tongue and pulse, believe it or not. Like I can immediately, you can start to get a feel.
Cha Mosley: Yeah.
Michelle: So based on just their symptoms and what they feel, you start to map it out. And this is why my initial is always like virtual. I have I ask them questions, I really just get to know them based on their voice, based on their skin, based on all of these different things. Then you look at them as a whole.
And then once, so you look at like the big picture, you're addressing that. But then also I will put a lot of points locally on. The pelvic area, so that calls for more blood because it's a controlled injury. When you get like needles in it basically tells the immune system, Hey, something's happening, but it's nothing dangerous.
But it does wake it up so it will bring more blood flow to that area,
Cha Mosley: okay.
Michelle: which you could literally see around the needle. You could see it like a red because it's [00:50:00] bringing more blood flow to that area. And it has actually been researched and shows that. The uterus does get more blood flow like the uterine artery does bring in more blood after acupuncture.
So it's really fascinating. And then I
Cha Mosley: And I don't wanna take that data. I don't wanna take that data for granted. So let's talk about the uterus and
more blood flow. Why does the uterus need more blood? What does that do?
Michelle: Okay, so then it helps not just the uterus, people think it helps with the uterine lining. Yes, a hundred percent It does, but it also helps. Ovaries. And one of the things that happens with aging ovaries, aging eggs and the thing that kind of brings it to like the quality and decline is that the capillaries stop being flexible and they stop bringing as much blood flow.
So the blood flow is a big part of that. So when you're bringing in, even if you're eating the best diet. If [00:51:00] your digestion's off, which we treat, you wanna get the digestion in order so that it's able to really convert the nutrients that you're eating into eventually blood.
But then if you don't have the blood flow, how is the nutrients gonna impact or arrive to the ovaries and support the egg quality?
And then, so it takes a couple of months, of course and it starts to come to life.
Cha Mosley: Okay. I love this. I love this because this is I'm gonna get your take. 'cause I love asking functional medicine doctors this. You're an acupuncturist. So a MH doctors, so many women, excuse me. So many women write to me in my DM doctor said I have low a MH. Doctor said I have low A MH, I can't get pregnant. What do you say?
Michelle: Not true. You can get pregnant with a very low a MH and I've seen it happen. All it means is that you have less but that doesn't mean that you can't get pregnant. We focus, especially in my work on egg quality, you need one good egg. That's [00:52:00] it. And it even in menopause, women still have some eggs.
They're just dormant. Yeah, you could totally it doesn't just because you have low mh now, why do they focus on it so much? They focus on it so much because. Most of the time when you're going to a fertility clinic, they're focusing on numbers because the more they have as many people know, like you, you get the eggs and then the eggs only certain amounts fertilized, and then it dwindles down until you finally get the embryo and then the embryos that actually are viable.
So it it keeps dwindling down. So for them and their stats. Unfortunately it is an important factor that they pay attention to. They want their statistics to stay high 'cause that's what sets them apart as a fertility clinic. And so in order for that success, one of the things that they focus on is the numbers.
Can we produce a lot? From the retrieval. So can we retrieve a lot of eggs because that's going to [00:53:00] help the success? So that's what they're looking at. They're looking at it from an IVF perspective. However what I've seen in my experience is that if you have a low A MH, you're actually more likely to have a successful natural pregnancy, even if at older age.
Cha Mosley: Interesting.
Michelle: Yeah. And it happens to people who have tried for years and haven't had success, have even tried with IVF, and then finally give up for a little bit, come back to themselves and then fall pregnant naturally.
Cha Mosley: Yeah, the number of women that have written to me that after IVF didn't work and they were tired of the stress and they just said, forget it. I don't care anymore, and then they relax and then they go get pregnant. Like I get that story.
Michelle: Yeah.
Cha Mosley: They just stop with all the trying and then they go get pregnant.
It's funny just what relaxing will do, but. I appreciate you sharing that insight as well, because I'm just like, what a, what woman? So worried about A MH. I had one practitioner said, listen, [00:54:00] you're over 40. Your A MH is supposed to be low. You're over 40. Eggs are, Yeah. You lost a lot of eggs, so what? Who cares?
You
Michelle: of they're just responding to what the professionals are telling them.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. Yeah. So anyway,
Michelle: And there was even a study that shows that low mh high FSH doesn't predict pregnancy outcomes. So pretty interesting.
Cha Mosley: Yeah. Yeah.
My, my last A MH test I got said it was like 0.17. I'm like I got pregnant three years ago. I don't know much how much higher it was
then, but it Sure. One through the roof ladies and I still got pregnant.
Michelle: Exactly. And it happens. It really does.
Yeah.
Cha Mosley: So well.
Michelle: So for people who have not discovered you, I'm sure a lot of people know who you are, but if they haven't and they wanna check out your Instagram, I definitely love, that's how I found Chia. I loved, I love her Instagram. It's amazing. You share a lot of great things.
So how can people find you? What are your offerings?
Cha Mosley: Yes, so you can find [00:55:00] me on the standard platforms Instagram, TikTok, YouTube pregnancy over 40 on all of those. I'm also on Facebook just under my name, chia Mosley. That's, it's my personal profile that mistakenly blew up. So it's just under my name. It's not under a handle. I encourage women to make their way to my video section on my YouTube channel because I've done interviews with many practitioners about preventing miscarriages. IVF and not IVF, sorry, the role of herbs in pregnancy and preparing your body for pregnancy. Like I've interviewed a lot of practitioners, I'm gonna interview you. We're gonna reverse this flow. So I definitely encourage women to do that. That's free information. As well. I do have a private. Subscription community that I encourage women to enjoy. I have so many dms that I can no longer just sit at my computer and talk to everyone. So I created a subscription community. Those are the ladies that give my time and attention. We have monthly meet and greets. I bring in practitioners just for the ladies.
Once a month we have more private [00:56:00] sessions and they can ask questions. And so that's what I am offering. Now. I have other things up my sleeve for future. But this is what I have going on now, but I think I'm pretty easy to find at this point,
Michelle: awesome chia. This was amazing. This is better than I even expected, and I had, I was just so excited to talk to you anyway to begin with. So you just have amazing energy, such a great attitude on life, very inspiring. Like you're not just your story, but you as a person. So I really appreciate you coming on today.
Cha Mosley: I appreciate you having me, and I appreciate all those kind words. I feel
Michelle: It's true, genuine
Cha Mosley: I believe you. I believe you. Thank you so much.
Michelle: wonderful. I'm gonna.